Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.

--
Chris Green

On 02/06/2010 10:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

You should probably have done a last time buy. You are not supposed to
use it any more though since ISTR 10/5/2010. Not sure why the EU banned
it - probably some halfwitted jobsworth interfering again.

At least this year there are still places around with some on the
shelves and in their catalogues. eg.

http://www.carrs-billington.com/pdf/...n_products.pdf

(dunno if this lot actually have any stock)

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.

I have found Pathclear reasonably effective. But then I rely on gravel
depth to keep most weeds in check and only hit problem areas with a
weedkiller (like where ground elder or horsetail comes up).

Regards,
Martin Brown

wrote in message ...
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.


Glyphosate is the stuff you need.

It will kill all but the broadest leafed stuff at one application.
It works by foliar contact so your dream of "it staying in the ground " will
remain a dream !

It comes in five litre concentrate form from the "locked away section" at
about £40, so you will need a knapsack or similar sprayer.

Regards
Pete
www.thecanalshop.com

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 10:47:46 +0100, wrote:

Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.

I use sodium chloride to keep my path and gravel clear of weeds.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com

"Stephen Wolstenholme" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 10:47:46 +0100, wrote:

I use sodium chloride to keep my path and gravel clear of weeds.

Steve


Would be cheaper than the stuff I suggested.
In what form and how do you apply it ?

Regards
Pete
www.thecanalshop.com

On 02/06/10 12:18, Pete wrote:


"Stephen Wolstenholme" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 10:47:46 +0100, wrote:

I use sodium chloride to keep my path and gravel clear of weeds.

Steve


Would be cheaper than the stuff I suggested.
In what form and how do you apply it ?

Sodium Chorideis rock salt, which is available in road side bins and
salt pots. Draw your own conclusions about the cost.

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:18:25 +0100, "Pete"
wrote:



"Stephen Wolstenholme" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 10:47:46 +0100, wrote:

I use sodium chloride to keep my path and gravel clear of weeds.

Steve


Would be cheaper than the stuff I suggested.
In what form and how do you apply it ?

Regards
Pete

I use whatever sort of salt comes cheapest. The last lot I used was a
big bag of cooking salt from Tesco. I just sprinkle it dry onto the
areas where the weeds are growing.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com

On 02/06/10 12:03, Martin Brown wrote:
On 02/06/2010 10:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

You should probably have done a last time buy. You are not supposed to
use it any more though since ISTR 10/5/2010. Not sure why the EU banned
it - probably some halfwitted jobsworth interfering again.

Maybe you should use google to find the reasons before going off at half
cock?

The reasons are given here

http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.c...l.htm#sodchlor

Martin wrote:
On 02/06/10 12:03, Martin Brown wrote:
On 02/06/2010 10:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

You should probably have done a last time buy. You are not supposed
to use it any more though since ISTR 10/5/2010. Not sure why the EU
banned it - probably some halfwitted jobsworth interfering again.

Maybe you should use google to find the reasons before going off at
half cock?

The reasons are given here

http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.c...l.htm#sodchlor

"In July 2008 the European Commission Pesticides Review Standing Committee
voted not to include Sodium Chlorate in Annex 1 of the approved pesticides
list and given a last date of sale on 30th September 2009. It cannot be used
after 10th May 2010 and any excess disposed of in the approved manner on
that date; not down the drain."

Note, they "voted". Whenever an expert committee has to vote, it's in the
realm of opinion, not science. See also the Bank Of England committee voting
on whether to raise interest rates or not, etc.

So yep, interfering half-witted jobsworths, as usual. It's the basic problem
with having standing committees. They have to keep doing things, or make
themselves redundant. The one thing they'll never vote for is their own
dissolution. As a result, the world will never be safe enough, clean enough,
green enough or regulated enough.


Ian

On 02/06/2010 11:57, Martin wrote:
On 02/06/10 12:03, Martin Brown wrote:
On 02/06/2010 10:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

You should probably have done a last time buy. You are not supposed to
use it any more though since ISTR 10/5/2010. Not sure why the EU banned
it - probably some halfwitted jobsworth interfering again.

Maybe you should use google to find the reasons before going off at half
cock?

The reasons are given here

http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.c...l.htm#sodchlor

They *voted* to ban it. That is not a reason for anything.

Sodium chlorate is not particularly good for making explosives unless
you have a death wish. And agricultural ammonium nitrate fertiliser will
always be freely available in much larger bulk quantities.

Drain and oven cleaner is widely sold in supermarkets and is far more
dangerous to life and limb. I have complained about the cretinous TV
advert with the bloke and the plastic bag oven shelf advert sloshing
concentrated caustic about with no eye protection. Same goes for the
morons spraying fence preservative with no mask or eye protection
(although the modern stuff now is so useless at preserving wood that it
probably is harmless if you get it in the eye).

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 02/06/2010 11:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.


My gravel drive is something like 300 metres long. I've used Sodium
Chlorate and I've used Glypohsate. Glyphosate worked out cheaper! One of
those five litre tubs of concentrate is expensive but it lasts a very
long time. The sodium chlorate was no better at killing weeds and new
ones popped up soon after it rained anyway, so it didn't seem to have a
long lasting effect. During Summer I spray the drive every couple of
months. Just don't use Roundup - it is a very expensive way of buying
generic glyphosate.

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

David in Normandy wrote:
On 02/06/2010 11:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.


My gravel drive is something like 300 metres long. I've used Sodium
Chlorate and I've used Glypohsate. Glyphosate worked out cheaper! One of
those five litre tubs of concentrate is expensive but it lasts a very
long time. The sodium chlorate was no better at killing weeds and new
ones popped up soon after it rained anyway, so it didn't seem to have a
long lasting effect. During Summer I spray the drive every couple of
months. Just don't use Roundup - it is a very expensive way of buying
generic glyphosate.

"Every couple of months" seems very frequent to me. I've got our
gravel pretty well dosed with sodium chlorate and it seems to be
fairly inhospitable to new growth. The trouble with using just
glyphosate is that it has virtually no residual effect so (as you
describe) isn't very long lasting.

--
Chris Green

On 02/06/2010 14:58, wrote:
David in wrote:
On 02/06/2010 11:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.


My gravel drive is something like 300 metres long. I've used Sodium
Chlorate and I've used Glypohsate. Glyphosate worked out cheaper! One of
those five litre tubs of concentrate is expensive but it lasts a very
long time. The sodium chlorate was no better at killing weeds and new
ones popped up soon after it rained anyway, so it didn't seem to have a
long lasting effect. During Summer I spray the drive every couple of
months. Just don't use Roundup - it is a very expensive way of buying
generic glyphosate.

"Every couple of months" seems very frequent to me. I've got our
gravel pretty well dosed with sodium chlorate and it seems to be
fairly inhospitable to new growth. The trouble with using just
glyphosate is that it has virtually no residual effect so (as you
describe) isn't very long lasting.

Sodium chlorate is pretty soluble though and tends to wash downhill. You
must have put a heck of a lot on if it lasts longer term or live
somewhere very very dry!

Where I live sodium chlorate washes into the soil and or oxidises some
organic matter in the soil and so is spent pretty quickly.

You probably want the old version of Pathclear with Simazine in it -
again now banned by some EU directive because it works too well and
could be misused by amateurs.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 11:47:46 +0200, wrote:

Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

I recently used up my last bit of Sodium Chlorate on one part of our
large area of gravel and Pathclear on another area. The Pathclear
seems to have been totally ineffective whereas the Sodium Chlorate
worked well. So I'm not very impressed with Pathclear for a start.

I *want* the weedkiller to stay in the ground for as long as possible
so products that leave 'no residue' are most definitely not what I
want.

It's a big (like getting on for 1000 square metres) area of gravel so
price is quite a major consideration.



Have a look for Ammonium Sulphamate - used to be sold as Root-out stump
killer and herbicide now sold as a compost accelerator!

--
rbel

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On 02/06/10 12:03, Martin Brown wrote:
On 02/06/2010 10:47, wrote:
Now that we can't get Sodium Chlorate what's the best (as in
reasonably cheap + effective) alternative?

You should probably have done a last time buy. You are not supposed to
use it any more though since ISTR 10/5/2010. Not sure why the EU banned
it - probably some halfwitted jobsworth interfering again.

Maybe you should use google to find the reasons before going off at half
cock?

The reasons are given here

http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.c...l.htm#sodchlor

There is very little information at that ref. More info is given he
COMMISSION DECISION
of 10 November 2008
concerning the non-inclusion of chlorate in Annex I to Council Directive
91/414/EEC and the
withdrawal of authorisations for plant protection products containing that
substance
(notified under document number C(2008) 6587)
(Text with EEA relevance)
(2008/865/EC)

"During the examination of this active substance by the
Committee, it was concluded, taking into account
comments received from Member States, that there are
clear indications that it may be expected that it has
harmful effects on human health, in particular taking
into consideration the unacceptable exposure to
operators taking into account the proposed provisional
AOEL. In addition, information was insufficient to
establish a definitive AOEL and to assess the leaching
of a relevant metabolite to groundwater. Moreover,
other concerns which were identified by the rapporteur
Member States in its assessment report are included in
the review report for the substance."

Unfortunately I have been unable to find what the other concerns of the
rapporteur (France) were. The EU reporting system is a mass of
cross-referencing which leads you everywhere except where you want to be!

--

Jeff