[David WE Roberts[_2_]]

Is it just my newsreader (Windows Mail) or is gardenbanter mixing up
threads?

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

[Bob Hobden]

"David WE Roberts" wrote...
Is it just my newsreader (Windows Mail) or is gardenbanter mixing up
threads?

Certainly something strange has happened to a couple of threads which have
got intertwined.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

[Ian B[_2_]]

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...
Is it just my newsreader (Windows Mail) or is gardenbanter mixing up
threads?


I've seen a number of mixed threads; don't know if gardenbanter is doing it,
but something is.


Ian

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:48:03 +0100, "Ian B"
wrote:


"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...
Is it just my newsreader (Windows Mail) or is gardenbanter mixing up
threads?


I've seen a number of mixed threads; don't know if gardenbanter is doing it,
but something is.


Ian


It's probably the way Windows Mail and Outlook Express handle threads.
Users of other application are not reporting any problems.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com

[kay]

Originally Posted by Stephen Wolstenholme

It's probably the way Windows Mail and Outlook Express handle threads.
Users of other application are not reporting any problems.

Gardenbanter is certainly concatenating threads if you start more than one on the same day.

[hugh]

In message , David WE Roberts
writes
Is it just my newsreader (Windows Mail) or is gardenbanter mixing up
threads?

Hmmm Which is most likely to have screwed up - Windows or gardenbanter.
Difficult call.
--
hugh
"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, Or who said it, Even if
I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own
common sense." Buddha

[Bob Hobden]

"hugh" wrote
David WE Roberts writes
Is it just my newsreader (Windows Mail) or is gardenbanter mixing up
threads?

Hmmm Which is most likely to have screwed up - Windows or gardenbanter.
Difficult call.

One thread I noticed got mixed up was "Which is the best plant to be grown
in the UK?" 20/07/2010 09.40.
It then starts to get replies to "Greenhouse questions" as replies.

Can anyone not using Windows see the mix-up?

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:31:50 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:



"hugh" wrote
David WE Roberts writes
Is it just my newsreader (Windows Mail) or is gardenbanter mixing up
threads?

Hmmm Which is most likely to have screwed up - Windows or gardenbanter.
Difficult call.

One thread I noticed got mixed up was "Which is the best plant to be grown
in the UK?" 20/07/2010 09.40.
It then starts to get replies to "Greenhouse questions" as replies.

Can anyone not using Windows see the mix-up?

I can't see any mix up using the Agent newsreader. I access the thread
directly rather than via Garden Banter. It looks like there is a fault
in Windows Mail.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com

Bob Hobden wrote:
One thread I noticed got mixed up was "Which is the best plant to be grown
in the UK?" 20/07/2010 09.40.
It then starts to get replies to "Greenhouse questions" as replies.

Can anyone not using Windows see the mix-up?

Yes, it was cross-threaded:

1 [ 10] Which is the best plant to be grown in Harryg
2 [ 13] +- kay
3 [ 22] | +-Greenhouse questions Lordspudz
4 [ 20] | | +- kay
5 [ 26] | | | `- Kate Morgan
6 [ 42] | | +- Jake
7 [ 21] | | `- soup
8 [ 12] | | `- Lordspudz
9 [ 30] | `- Mike Lyle
10 [ 14] +- Stewart Robert Hins
11 [ 23] | `- Dave Hill
12 [ 9] +- bobharvey
13 [ 14] | `- harry
14 [ 30] +- Bob Hobden
15 [ 14] +- sutartsorric
- 16 [ 19] `-Which is the best plant to be grown Jake

Which would imply it was either Lordspudz who (accidentally or not) followed
up in one thread to a message in another thread and changed the subject
accordingly, or that gardenbanter (assuming he posted from there, but that
looks like a gardenbanter type username!) had a bit of a brainfart moment
and the threads were crossed by them. It's definitely crossed out in the
wilderness of usenet, not restricted to anyone's newsreader.

[Ian B[_2_]]

"Jake" wrote in message
...
On 26 Jul 2010 16:47:56 GMT, wrote:

Bob Hobden wrote:
One thread I noticed got mixed up was "Which is the best plant to be
grown
in the UK?" 20/07/2010 09.40.
It then starts to get replies to "Greenhouse questions" as replies.

Can anyone not using Windows see the mix-up?

Yes, it was cross-threaded:

1 [ 10] Which is the best plant to be grown in Harryg
2 [ 13] +- kay
3 [ 22] | +-Greenhouse questions Lordspudz
4 [ 20] | | +- kay
5 [ 26] | | | `- Kate Morgan
6 [ 42] | | +- Jake
7 [ 21] | | `- soup
8 [ 12] | | `- Lordspudz
9 [ 30] | `- Mike Lyle
10 [ 14] +- Stewart Robert
Hins
11 [ 23] | `- Dave Hill
12 [ 9] +- bobharvey
13 [ 14] | `- harry
14 [ 30] +- Bob Hobden
15 [ 14] +- sutartsorric
- 16 [ 19] `-Which is the best plant to be grown Jake

Which would imply it was either Lordspudz who (accidentally or not)
followed
up in one thread to a message in another thread and changed the subject
accordingly, or that gardenbanter (assuming he posted from there, but that
looks like a gardenbanter type username!) had a bit of a brainfart moment
and the threads were crossed by them. It's definitely crossed out in the
wilderness of usenet, not restricted to anyone's newsreader.

If the mess up occurred out in the internet, then Agent Newsreader is
more capable than I had realised as, for me, the two threads (Best
Plant ... and Greenhouse Questions) are properly separate and posts
are in a logical order in the right thread.

But I've also checked on Google Groups at

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...995bfaa9f2316#

for the Best Plant.... thread which seems fine to me, and

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...a87811a402b9c#

for the greenhouse one. Now interestingly, Google says Mike Lyle
changed the subject (and there's one message about best plant from
him) and then Soup changes it back again to greenhouse questions.

But as I say, my Agent newsreader has everything just as it should be
(my NNTP provider is Easynews).

Lordspuds is a GB poster but I cannot see any evidence that he has
been the cause, even inadvertently, of any mixup. He's innocent m'lud!

Ah well.

Back to the watering ....



From a look at the headers in question, Gardenbanter's server messed up the
references headers, so appending LordSpudz's reply to a message in "Which
Plant...?" It may well be that Forte Agent is not threading properly,
ignoring the headers and threading by subject lines instead, in which case
it ignored the mixup.


Ian

[Muddymike]

"Ian B" wrote in message
...

"Jake" wrote in message
...
On 26 Jul 2010 16:47:56 GMT,
wrote:

Bob Hobden wrote:
One thread I noticed got mixed up was "Which is the best
plant to be grown
in the UK?" 20/07/2010 09.40.
It then starts to get replies to "Greenhouse questions" as
replies.

Can anyone not using Windows see the mix-up?

Yes, it was cross-threaded:

1 [ 10] Which is the best plant to be grown in
Harryg
2 [ 13] +-
kay
3 [ 22] | +-Greenhouse questions
Lordspudz
4 [ 20] | | +-
kay
5 [ 26] | | | `-
Kate Morgan
6 [ 42] | | +-
Jake
7 [ 21] | | `-
soup
8 [ 12] | | `-
Lordspudz
9 [ 30] | `-
Mike Lyle
10 [ 14] +-
Stewart Robert Hins
11 [ 23] | `-
Dave Hill
12 [ 9] +-
bobharvey
13 [ 14] | `-
harry
14 [ 30] +-
Bob Hobden
15 [ 14] +-
sutartsorric
- 16 [ 19] `-Which is the best plant to be grown
Jake

Which would imply it was either Lordspudz who (accidentally or
not) followed
up in one thread to a message in another thread and changed
the subject
accordingly, or that gardenbanter (assuming he posted from
there, but that
looks like a gardenbanter type username!) had a bit of a
brainfart moment
and the threads were crossed by them. It's definitely crossed
out in the
wilderness of usenet, not restricted to anyone's newsreader.

If the mess up occurred out in the internet, then Agent
Newsreader is
more capable than I had realised as, for me, the two threads
(Best
Plant ... and Greenhouse Questions) are properly separate and
posts
are in a logical order in the right thread.

But I've also checked on Google Groups at

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...995bfaa9f2316#

for the Best Plant.... thread which seems fine to me, and

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...a87811a402b9c#

for the greenhouse one. Now interestingly, Google says Mike
Lyle
changed the subject (and there's one message about best plant
from
him) and then Soup changes it back again to greenhouse
questions.

But as I say, my Agent newsreader has everything just as it
should be
(my NNTP provider is Easynews).

Lordspuds is a GB poster but I cannot see any evidence that he
has
been the cause, even inadvertently, of any mixup. He's
innocent m'lud!

Ah well.

Back to the watering ....



From a look at the headers in question, Gardenbanter's server
messed up the references headers, so appending LordSpudz's
reply to a message in "Which Plant...?" It may well be that
Forte Agent is not threading properly, ignoring the headers and
threading by subject lines instead, in which case it ignored
the mixup.


And this matters because?

Mike

[Ian B[_2_]]

"Muddymike" wrote in message
om...

"Ian B" wrote in message
...

"Jake" wrote in message
...
On 26 Jul 2010 16:47:56 GMT, wrote:

Bob Hobden wrote:
One thread I noticed got mixed up was "Which is the best plant to be
grown
in the UK?" 20/07/2010 09.40.
It then starts to get replies to "Greenhouse questions" as replies.

Can anyone not using Windows see the mix-up?

Yes, it was cross-threaded:

1 [ 10] Which is the best plant to be grown in Harryg
2 [ 13] +- kay
3 [ 22] | +-Greenhouse questions Lordspudz
4 [ 20] | | +- kay
5 [ 26] | | | `- Kate Morgan
6 [ 42] | | +- Jake
7 [ 21] | | `- soup
8 [ 12] | | `- Lordspudz
9 [ 30] | `- Mike Lyle
10 [ 14] +- Stewart Robert Hins
11 [ 23] | `- Dave Hill
12 [ 9] +- bobharvey
13 [ 14] | `- harry
14 [ 30] +- Bob Hobden
15 [ 14] +- sutartsorric
- 16 [ 19] `-Which is the best plant to be grown Jake

Which would imply it was either Lordspudz who (accidentally or not)
followed
up in one thread to a message in another thread and changed the subject
accordingly, or that gardenbanter (assuming he posted from there, but
that
looks like a gardenbanter type username!) had a bit of a brainfart
moment
and the threads were crossed by them. It's definitely crossed out in
the
wilderness of usenet, not restricted to anyone's newsreader.

If the mess up occurred out in the internet, then Agent Newsreader is
more capable than I had realised as, for me, the two threads (Best
Plant ... and Greenhouse Questions) are properly separate and posts
are in a logical order in the right thread.

But I've also checked on Google Groups at

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...995bfaa9f2316#

for the Best Plant.... thread which seems fine to me, and

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...a87811a402b9c#

for the greenhouse one. Now interestingly, Google says Mike Lyle
changed the subject (and there's one message about best plant from
him) and then Soup changes it back again to greenhouse questions.

But as I say, my Agent newsreader has everything just as it should be
(my NNTP provider is Easynews).

Lordspuds is a GB poster but I cannot see any evidence that he has
been the cause, even inadvertently, of any mixup. He's innocent m'lud!

Ah well.

Back to the watering ....



From a look at the headers in question, Gardenbanter's server messed up
the references headers, so appending LordSpudz's reply to a message in
"Which Plant...?" It may well be that Forte Agent is not threading
properly, ignoring the headers and threading by subject lines instead, in
which case it ignored the mixup.


And this matters because?


We're on the internet.

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:45:32 +0100, "Ian B"
wrote:

From a look at the headers in question, Gardenbanter's server messed up the
references headers, so appending LordSpudz's reply to a message in "Which
Plant...?" It may well be that Forte Agent is not threading properly,
ignoring the headers and threading by subject lines instead, in which case
it ignored the mixup.

Agent threads by subject or by references header.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com

[chris French]

In message , Jake
writes
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:45:32 +0100, "Ian B"
wrote:


From a look at the headers in question, Gardenbanter's server messed up the
references headers, so appending LordSpudz's reply to a message in "Which
Plant...?" It may well be that Forte Agent is not threading properly,
ignoring the headers and threading by subject lines instead, in which case
it ignored the mixup.


Ian


I've now mapped the references field in the headers (which Forte Agent
does use by the way) and everything is exactly as it should be. Given
that Lordspudz originally posted via Garden Banter, if the mix up
occurred at that point then the references would reflect that when I
look at them in my newsreader. That they do not suggests that, however
illogical this may be to some, GB isn't the culprit.

That's not what I see. I certainly see a mix up in the headers.

In Message-ID: , which for me
using Turnpike appears in the Greenhouse thread, in reply to Kay

I have the following references header:

References:


The first is Lorsdsupdz original initial post in the Greenhouse thread,
the second is the MID for Kays post in the 'Best plant' thread. This
certainly looks like an error on the part of Gardenbanter posting system

Different people are experiencing different "results" so whilst we
must all agree that whatever happened was somewhere "out there", we
also need to agree that we'll never work out where that somewhere was.

Turnpike puts this message in reply to Kay, as I would expect as it
threads on the References headers (a sit does with the replies to it.),
unless absent. And obviously uses the most recent reference. Newsreaders
which use a different threading algorithm may produce different results
when presented with such a malformed header.


Those threading solely on subject will probably not see a problem in
this situation
--
Chris French

Jake wrote:
One might be a bit sceptical about a lot of those who report an issue
using Outlook Express or Windows Mail as their newsreader but Vicky
seems to be using a Linux-based reader which has nothing to do with
Microshaft. So Vicky effectively tells me, without realising it, that
the problem doesn't rest with whichever newsreader someone is using.

I didn't realise I was doing it without realising it, I thought that that
was specifically what I was saying. ;-)

And yes, I'm using tin, which is a linux-based newsreader, from a public
news feed from news.individual.net, if that helps you.

It could always be that during propogation some server somewhere has 'fixed'
the problem or not honoured the references. Does that add another spoke to
your wheel?

I seriously suspect it's not anything to bother thinking about this much
already, though.