[Emery Davis[_3_]]

Hi all,

I wonder if one of the professionals or someone experienced with mail
order can help me.

I have an order of 18 plants coming (to Normandy) from a well known
Dutch supplier. I ordered all small plants because I wanted to use
parcel post to keep shipping costs down. Out of the 18, there is one
plant at 80/100 cm, a 60/80, a 50/60, two 5 liter pots, and thirteen 3
liter pots. (Normally anything up to 120 cm can go by post).

I had an email discussion with the supplier where he clearly understood
I wanted to ship by mail.

I was surprised to receive a bill for 236 EU (exc VAT) for shipping by
truck, almost the same price as the plants themselves. Upon inquiry the
supplier claims that the total weight is 110 kg, too heavy for post
(although they also claim on the web site that up to 30 kg us possible,
so even if, it should have been able to go in 4 packages...)

I can't imagine how these 18 small plants could weigh so much. It seems
to me a 3 liter (3/4 gallon) pot + young graft or seedling should weigh
around 2 pounds, i.e. a kilogram or maybe two maximum.

Can anyone tell me what a 3/4 gallon young plant should weigh for
shipping purposes (approximately, obviously!) Any ideas as to how I
might proceed with the supplier, who is in the position of being the
only one marketing certain rare plants?

Thanks in advance,

-E

[chris French]

In message , Emery Davis
writes
Hi all,

I wonder if one of the professionals or someone experienced with mail
order can help me.

I have an order of 18 plants coming (to Normandy) from a well known
Dutch supplier. I ordered all small plants because I wanted to use
parcel post to keep shipping costs down. Out of the 18, there is one
plant at 80/100 cm, a 60/80, a 50/60, two 5 liter pots, and thirteen 3
liter pots. (Normally anything up to 120 cm can go by post).

I had an email discussion with the supplier where he clearly understood
I wanted to ship by mail.

I was surprised to receive a bill for 236 EU (exc VAT) for shipping by
truck, almost the same price as the plants themselves.

Ouch :-(

Upon inquiry the
supplier claims that the total weight is 110 kg, too heavy for post
(although they also claim on the web site that up to 30 kg us possible,
so even if, it should have been able to go in 4 packages...)


They presumably could, seems maybe that someone there was lacking a bit
of clue?


I can't imagine how these 18 small plants could weigh so much. It seems
to me a 3 liter (3/4 gallon) pot + young graft or seedling should weigh
around 2 pounds, i.e. a kilogram or maybe two maximum.


Probably more than a kilo I reckon, depending on the compost and how wet
it is. but even if the pots were all full of water, that's still only 49
kg. I suspect the suppliers has estimate weights for products in it's
database that over estimate the weights. For a lot of things it probably
doesn't matter - shipping costs (to a company) aren't necessarily just
based directly on the weight of individual parcels. A friend of ours
runs a mail order company, and they might contract to send say 5000
parcels of up to a certain weight. for a fixed price per parcel.

But it might be that your order was out of their norm.


Can anyone tell me what a 3/4 gallon young plant should weigh for
shipping purposes (approximately, obviously!) Any ideas as to how I
might proceed with the supplier, who is in the position of being the
only one marketing certain rare plants?


Have these been shipped and so you are contesting the charges, or are
you still in discussion with the supplier?

--
Chris French

[Emery Davis[_3_]]

On 10/26/2010 01:21 AM, chris French wrote:
But it might be that your order was out of their norm.


[]

Have these been shipped and so you are contesting the charges, or are
you still in discussion with the supplier?

Thanks Chris and Sacha for the responses, and sorry for the delay in
mine, I've been on the road.

The order should have been normal enough for them. They deal with many
industrial, large quantity clients, as well as collectors who order only
a fe wplants at a time. (In fact many plants are only available in very
small quantity.

Since the plants are all small 1 or 2 year grafted (or seed grown)
maples, they are in a light compost, and you've confirmed for me that
the total weight cannot possibly be 110 kg.

The plants are in the entrepot and arrive tomorrow, so I could in
principal refuse the order. (Not very likely with the mythical Acer
diabolicum on board...) Of course I am keen to keep in good relations
with this and all important suppliers, since as a collector my sources
are few.

-E

[shazzbat]

"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
On 10/26/2010 01:21 AM, chris French wrote:
But it might be that your order was out of their norm.


[]

Have these been shipped and so you are contesting the charges, or are
you still in discussion with the supplier?

Thanks Chris and Sacha for the responses, and sorry for the delay in
mine, I've been on the road.

The order should have been normal enough for them. They deal with many
industrial, large quantity clients, as well as collectors who order only
a fe wplants at a time. (In fact many plants are only available in very
small quantity.

Since the plants are all small 1 or 2 year grafted (or seed grown)
maples, they are in a light compost, and you've confirmed for me that
the total weight cannot possibly be 110 kg.

The plants are in the entrepot and arrive tomorrow, so I could in
principal refuse the order. (Not very likely with the mythical Acer
diabolicum on board...) Of course I am keen to keep in good relations
with this and all important suppliers, since as a collector my sources
are few.

-E

Since there are only 18, I would put the plants on a bathroom or similar
scale one at a time, round up to the nearest Kg per plant, and add them up.
And make a record of each one.

Of course, they may have given them a good watering prior to despatch. Heavy
stuff, water.

Steve

[chris French]

In message , Emery Davis
writes
On 10/26/2010 01:21 AM, chris French wrote:
But it might be that your order was out of their norm.


[]

Have these been shipped and so you are contesting the charges, or are
you still in discussion with the supplier?

Thanks Chris and Sacha for the responses, and sorry for the delay in
mine, I've been on the road.

The order should have been normal enough for them. They deal with many
industrial, large quantity clients, as well as collectors who order only
a fe wplants at a time. (In fact many plants are only available in very
small quantity.

Since the plants are all small 1 or 2 year grafted (or seed grown)
maples, they are in a light compost, and you've confirmed for me that
the total weight cannot possibly be 110 kg.

The plants are in the entrepot and arrive tomorrow, so I could in
principal refuse the order. (Not very likely with the mythical Acer
diabolicum on board...) Of course I am keen to keep in good relations
with this and all important suppliers, since as a collector my sources
are few.


I'd try to get them to hold the order while you sort out the shipping -
split the order into multiple shipments or whatever. It's sounds like a
typical case of mis-communication/misunderstanding within a company.


Are you in a position to talk to them on the phone about this?
--
Chris French

[Emery Davis[_3_]]

On 10/27/2010 04:26 PM, shazzbat wrote:
Since there are only 18, I would put the plants on a bathroom or similar
scale one at a time, round up to the nearest Kg per plant, and add them
up. And make a record of each one.

Of course, they may have given them a good watering prior to despatch.
Heavy stuff, water.

Heh, somewhere around a kg per liter as I recall... I doubt they're
watered before shipping, these guys are experts and you certainly
wouldn't want maples sitting around in saturated soil.

I will certainly weigh them, thanks. We'll find out tomorrow. I wonder
whether they've included the weight of the pallet.

-E

[Emery Davis[_3_]]

On 10/27/2010 04:27 PM, chris French wrote:
I'd try to get them to hold the order while you sort out the shipping -
split the order into multiple shipments or whatever. It's sounds like a
typical case of mis-communication/misunderstanding within a company.


Too late to hold it, they didn't send the bill until the order had
already shipped. I really don't expect there's anything felonious going
on, rather since over the last several years I've had larger orders
delivered by truck, I think I was in the database that way, and my
conversation with the owner just didn't get entered into the computer
properly.


Are you in a position to talk to them on the phone about this?

Could do, as I say I am emailing directly with the family member-owner
that handles the business side of things.

I will weigh everything tomorrow, then we'll see what he says...

I must say I dislike this sort of conflict, especially since we are all
in it together for the plants, as it were. Oh well.

-E

[Emery Davis[_3_]]

On 10/27/2010 04:03 PM, Sacha wrote:
If there's a weighbridge handy, you could get one of the staff there to
witness what they really do weigh. Weight will be affected by the type
of compost used, size of the rootball and weight of branches etc. but
the variables shouldn't be huge for plants of that size. It's just
possible that whoever normally deals with such orders is away and a
novice is trying to cope but without being too sure of what's going on!

Rec'd the plants, several were larger than those I ordered ( 2 m) and
clearly this was the reason that against my instructions the plants were
shipped by truck...

Total weight of the 18 plants on arrival was 38.5 kg. (The 3 l pot
weight was 1.5 kg pretty much uniformly, but the several larger ones
pushed the sum up a bit.) So accounting for water the original weight
may have been near 60 kg. The pallet was marked 110, but when I
mentioned this to the driver he responded "never."

I am dealing with the family who owns the nursery directly, but of
course the fellow who deals with orders is not also over-seeing
assemblage etc. Anyway I've written a fairly pointed email, I'll report
on how they respond.

-E

[Baz[_3_]]

Emery Davis wrote in news:8j1263FapeU1
@mid.individual.net:

On 10/27/2010 04:03 PM, Sacha wrote:
If there's a weighbridge handy, you could get one of the staff there to
witness what they really do weigh. Weight will be affected by the type
of compost used, size of the rootball and weight of branches etc. but
the variables shouldn't be huge for plants of that size. It's just
possible that whoever normally deals with such orders is away and a
novice is trying to cope but without being too sure of what's going on!

Rec'd the plants, several were larger than those I ordered ( 2 m) and
clearly this was the reason that against my instructions the plants were
shipped by truck...

Total weight of the 18 plants on arrival was 38.5 kg. (The 3 l pot
weight was 1.5 kg pretty much uniformly, but the several larger ones
pushed the sum up a bit.) So accounting for water the original weight
may have been near 60 kg. The pallet was marked 110, but when I
mentioned this to the driver he responded "never."

I am dealing with the family who owns the nursery directly, but of
course the fellow who deals with orders is not also over-seeing
assemblage etc. Anyway I've written a fairly pointed email, I'll report
on how they respond.

-E


Our family and friends have had similar problems ordering over the net.
We now go to local nurseries and buy them. The advantages are that you can
pick up and buy the items and not trust to luck over the web.
Plants obviously need water and you are paying to ship that water to you,
the major weight of the item.
I would think the firm you are dealing with has encountered this problem
before, many times, and are unlikely to help, but as you said you are going
to let us know.

Hope it works out OK for you.

Baz