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Beans, danger of cross pollination?



 
 
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  #1  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:59 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 761
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

For the first time I'm growing broad beans. However I always grow runner
beans and collect some of the dried pods for the following years seeds.
Runner bean variety "Streamline" or at least that is what it said on the
original packet ten years ago! I've always found it a good strong
variety, pest resistant and the pods string-less. Could broad beans
cross pollinate with the runner beans and lead to hybrid bean seeds for
planting next year? I'm also assuming such crosses would not be desirable?

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2011, 10:46 AM
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 77
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in Normandy[_8_] View Post
For the first time I'm growing broad beans. However I always grow runner
beans and collect some of the dried pods for the following years seeds.
Runner bean variety "Streamline" or at least that is what it said on the
original packet ten years ago! I've always found it a good strong
variety, pest resistant and the pods string-less. Could broad beans
cross pollinate with the runner beans and lead to hybrid bean seeds for
planting next year? I'm also assuming such crosses would not be desirable?

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.
Runner beans are Phaseolus coccineus and Broad beans are Vicia faba so not even related so the chances of them crossing are rather remote.
  #3  
Old 06-04-2011, 11:38 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 1,775
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

David in Normandy wrote in
. fr:

For the first time I'm growing broad beans. However I always grow
runner beans and collect some of the dried pods for the following
years seeds. Runner bean variety "Streamline" or at least that is what
it said on the original packet ten years ago! I've always found it a
good strong variety, pest resistant and the pods string-less. Could
broad beans cross pollinate with the runner beans and lead to hybrid
bean seeds for planting next year? I'm also assuming such crosses
would not be desirable?


David, I can only speak from my experience over the last 4? years.
I save seed from all beans and I have not noticed any X pollination at all.
Time will tell?
My broad bean "Aquadulce Claudia" already have small pods BTW, and "The
Sutton" are about ready to flower.
I only know of one chap who grows runner bean "Streamline" and I have some
seed from him, (they are rather old) and with what you have said about them
perhaps it's time I gave them a try. I have grown "Scarlet Emperor" since I
started gardening and have found them a bit stringy later on so maybe time
to try something new(to me). Or both.
I am sure that you have resarched growing broad beans, but it will do no
harm if I advise you to nip out the top of each plant when pods have set to
avoid greenfly, THE pest on broad beans from my experience.

I hope you find all this useful.
Baz
  #4  
Old 06-04-2011, 12:46 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 761
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

On 06/04/2011 12:38, Baz wrote:
David in wrote in
. fr:

For the first time I'm growing broad beans. However I always grow
runner beans and collect some of the dried pods for the following
years seeds. Runner bean variety "Streamline" or at least that is what
it said on the original packet ten years ago! I've always found it a
good strong variety, pest resistant and the pods string-less. Could
broad beans cross pollinate with the runner beans and lead to hybrid
bean seeds for planting next year? I'm also assuming such crosses
would not be desirable?


David, I can only speak from my experience over the last 4? years.
I save seed from all beans and I have not noticed any X pollination at all.
Time will tell?
My broad bean "Aquadulce Claudia" already have small pods BTW, and "The
Sutton" are about ready to flower.
I only know of one chap who grows runner bean "Streamline" and I have some
seed from him, (they are rather old) and with what you have said about them
perhaps it's time I gave them a try. I have grown "Scarlet Emperor" since I
started gardening and have found them a bit stringy later on so maybe time
to try something new(to me). Or both.
I am sure that you have resarched growing broad beans, but it will do no
harm if I advise you to nip out the top of each plant when pods have set to
avoid greenfly, THE pest on broad beans from my experience.

I hope you find all this useful.
Baz


Thank you for the advice. I'm a total newbie to broad beans. I've just
planted some beans directly into the ground but have no idea how high
they will grow. According to the internet broad beans grow three to four
feet high so I've planted the beans between some pea sticks of that
height I've cut from my hazel trees. I don't know if they will be strong
enough. I always grow my runner beans up 8 foot bamboo canes all
fastened together in a long strong wigwam.

I've a few broad beans around 8 inches high in individual plant pots
that I germinated indoors and they've been outside the last few days
hardening off - I plan to try growing them around a bamboo wigwam. I am
assuming that broad beans twist themselves around supports the same as
runner beans?

Another very silly question - can broad beans be eaten as green beans ie
the pods and later on just the beans shelled from the pods themselves?
If eaten as beans (seeds) can they be allowed to fully ripen and be kept
dry overwinter for use in stews etc? The name of the variety is
something like Swiss white (Suisse blanc). The beans themselves are
white and approximately the size of the beans you get in baked bean
tins, not the huge beans I've seem other people with.

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.
  #5  
Old 06-04-2011, 01:45 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 661
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

David in Normandy wrote:

Could broad beans
cross pollinate with the runner beans and lead to hybrid bean seeds for
planting next year?


Runner beans are Phaseolus Coccineus- according to my Holy Scriptures
(Ashworth's "Seed to Seed"), they do not cross with any other bean species.

In general, beans are self-fertile, so don't readily cross... I grow a
number of regular bush and half-runner types in a 4-foot wide bed, with a 4
or 5 foot block of soybeans as separators, and don't see cross-pollination.
The nice thing about beans, is you can look at the seed and see if there's
anything suspect about the parentage.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
  #6  
Old 06-04-2011, 01:58 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 1,775
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

David in Normandy wrote in
. fr:
Thank you for the advice. I'm a total newbie to broad beans. I've just
planted some beans directly into the ground but have no idea how high
they will grow. According to the internet broad beans grow three to
four feet high so I've planted the beans between some pea sticks of
that height I've cut from my hazel trees. I don't know if they will be
strong enough. I always grow my runner beans up 8 foot bamboo canes
all fastened together in a long strong wigwam.

I've a few broad beans around 8 inches high in individual plant pots
that I germinated indoors and they've been outside the last few days
hardening off - I plan to try growing them around a bamboo wigwam. I
am assuming that broad beans twist themselves around supports the same
as runner beans?


No. broad beans grow upright but your sticks and some string will stop them
toppling over when the pods swell.

http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/fruit_..._bean_care.asp

Another very silly question - can broad beans be eaten as green beans
ie the pods and later on just the beans shelled from the pods
themselves? If eaten as beans (seeds) can they be allowed to fully
ripen and be kept dry overwinter for use in stews etc? The name of the
variety is something like Swiss white (Suisse blanc). The beans
themselves are white and approximately the size of the beans you get
in baked bean tins, not the huge beans I've seem other people with.

There is no such a thing as a silly question
They can be cooked and eaten in their pods whole but imo is not a thing to
do early in the season as you may be waiting for the beans from the pod
instead. The reverse of what you say, but it's up to you.
Dry them for stews as you say, and are delicious, but keep some for seed
next year.

Another thing, you can keep sowing them to have progressive crops ie: sow
them every month from March-August. I sow 50 or so very close together 4"-
5" apart every month so that I can keep all the options open and dry, eat
fresh, freeze, give away or eat in the pod as with all types of beans.

I havn't heard of Swiss white (Suisse blanc) but as I said I have only been
growing for a few years. Give "The Sutton" a go as well if you like easy no
messing about and have not a lot of space.

Good luck with it all.
Baz
  #7  
Old 06-04-2011, 02:50 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: n/a
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

Baz wrote:
My broad bean "Aquadulce Claudia" already have small pods BTW, and "The
Sutton" are about ready to flower.


Mine are only just popping through the ground. :-(
My overwintered ones all got confused by the weather and flowered and died
by January.

I only know of one chap who grows runner bean "Streamline" and I have some
seed from him, (they are rather old) and with what you have said about them
perhaps it's time I gave them a try. I have grown "Scarlet Emperor" since I
started gardening and have found them a bit stringy later on so maybe time
to try something new(to me). Or both.


I have both streamline and emperor! I tend to grow a fairly random
selection, can never tell which is which by the time they fruit. :-)

I am sure that you have resarched growing broad beans, but it will do no
harm if I advise you to nip out the top of each plant when pods have set to
avoid greenfly, THE pest on broad beans from my experience.


My broadbean pests have all been black, not green!
  #8  
Old 06-04-2011, 03:08 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

David in Normandy wrote:
Thank you for the advice. I'm a total newbie to broad beans. I've just
planted some beans directly into the ground but have no idea how high
they will grow. According to the internet broad beans grow three to four
feet high so I've planted the beans between some pea sticks of that
height I've cut from my hazel trees. I don't know if they will be strong
enough. I always grow my runner beans up 8 foot bamboo canes all
fastened together in a long strong wigwam.


I've never needed to stake my broad beans, they grow kind of upright and
bushy, and seemt o survive all sorts of abuse by the weather. I've only
grown a significant number of them fairly recently, so I'm no expert. But
you may find the bean plants are stronger than your sticks. :-)

I've a few broad beans around 8 inches high in individual plant pots
that I germinated indoors and they've been outside the last few days
hardening off - I plan to try growing them around a bamboo wigwam. I am
assuming that broad beans twist themselves around supports the same as
runner beans?


Nope, they just grow up and out.

Another very silly question - can broad beans be eaten as green beans ie
the pods and later on just the beans shelled from the pods themselves?


I have never tried it, the pods are a lot thicker and hairy velvetty hairy)
on the inside, so it's never appealed. I don't know if you /can/, as I've
never thought to look.

If eaten as beans (seeds) can they be allowed to fully ripen and be kept
dry overwinter for use in stews etc? The name of the variety is
something like Swiss white (Suisse blanc). The beans themselves are
white and approximately the size of the beans you get in baked bean
tins, not the huge beans I've seem other people with.


I dried a load last year, but haven't got around to soaking and cooking them
this year yet. But I have assumed that it is the sensible thing to do!
  #9  
Old 06-04-2011, 03:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 761
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

On 06/04/2011 16:08, wrote:
David in wrote:
Thank you for the advice. I'm a total newbie to broad beans. I've just
planted some beans directly into the ground but have no idea how high
they will grow. According to the internet broad beans grow three to four
feet high so I've planted the beans between some pea sticks of that
height I've cut from my hazel trees. I don't know if they will be strong
enough. I always grow my runner beans up 8 foot bamboo canes all
fastened together in a long strong wigwam.


I've never needed to stake my broad beans, they grow kind of upright and
bushy, and seemt o survive all sorts of abuse by the weather. I've only
grown a significant number of them fairly recently, so I'm no expert. But
you may find the bean plants are stronger than your sticks. :-)

I've a few broad beans around 8 inches high in individual plant pots
that I germinated indoors and they've been outside the last few days
hardening off - I plan to try growing them around a bamboo wigwam. I am
assuming that broad beans twist themselves around supports the same as
runner beans?


Nope, they just grow up and out.


Right, OK, I've just put some 8 foot canes in the ground and planted my
house-pot-germinated ones next to the canes! LOL Looks like I've wasted
my time there then. Oh well. I'll pull up the canes in a month or two
when I want more canes for the tomatoes.


Another very silly question - can broad beans be eaten as green beans ie
the pods and later on just the beans shelled from the pods themselves?


I have never tried it, the pods are a lot thicker and hairy velvetty hairy)
on the inside, so it's never appealed. I don't know if you /can/, as I've
never thought to look.


So what are those green beans that people eat as small round pods? There
are too many bean varieties and I find it a bit confusing. I'm only
really familiar with runner beans. Though school dinners forty years ago
consisted of lots of the small round greed bean pods.


If eaten as beans (seeds) can they be allowed to fully ripen and be kept
dry overwinter for use in stews etc? The name of the variety is
something like Swiss white (Suisse blanc). The beans themselves are
white and approximately the size of the beans you get in baked bean
tins, not the huge beans I've seem other people with.


I dried a load last year, but haven't got around to soaking and cooking them
this year yet. But I have assumed that it is the sensible thing to do!


I've tried using runner bean seeds in a similar way, they work
reasonably well if soaked, cooked and put through a blender and mixed
with minced beef for use in chillies or bolognese sauce.

--
David in Normandy.

To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.
  #10  
Old 06-04-2011, 03:48 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

On 06/04/2011 12:38, Baz wrote:

I only know of one chap who grows runner bean "Streamline" and I have some
seed from him, (they are rather old) and with what you have said about them
perhaps it's time I gave them a try. I have grown "Scarlet Emperor" since I
started gardening and have found them a bit stringy later on so maybe time
to try something new(to me). Or both.
Baz


I've been growing runner beans, mainly Streamline for around twenty
years. The secrets to good crops a
1. Good fertile soil.
2. Lots of sunshine.
3. Keep well watered - they are very thirsty plants and hate to dry out.
4. Pick pods between three inches and six inches long for eating.
5. If there are too many pods growing for you to eat, pick them at 6
inches anyway and either give them away, blanch and freeze them or throw
them into the compost bin. Do not leave them growing or the plant will
stop flowering and creating new pods.
6. Pods longer than 6 inches can start to become stringy so back to
point 5 again - always pick the pods whether you want them or not.
7. If your neighbours won't answer the door when you knock, it means
you've given them too many runner beans and they are sick of the sight
of them too.

Regarding the variety Streamline I've never had any problems with
blackfly, greenfly or any other pests. The only problem I do have with
them is the foliage makes my arms itch when picking the beans, must be
some sort of allergic reaction, so need to wear a long sleeve shirt to
pick them.

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.
  #11  
Old 06-04-2011, 03:59 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

David in Normandy wrote:
So what are those green beans that people eat as small round pods? There
are too many bean varieties and I find it a bit confusing. I'm only
really familiar with runner beans. Though school dinners forty years ago
consisted of lots of the small round greed bean pods.


French beans?

  #12  
Old 06-04-2011, 05:13 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Registered User
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2005
Posts: 545
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:38:40 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 06/04/2011 16:08, wrote:

[...]

I dried a load last year, but haven't got around to soaking and cooking them
this year yet. But I have assumed that it is the sensible thing to do!


I've tried using runner bean seeds in a similar way, they work
reasonably well if soaked, cooked and put through a blender and mixed
with minced beef for use in chillies or bolognese sauce.


Runner bean seeds are, if I mistake not, "red kidney beans". This
means they're toxic if you don't boil for ten minutes -- if dried
soak, of course. I like the shape and texture, and wouldn't often
blitz them: when I remember (hah!), I cook them separately, and only
add them to the chili at the end to warm them up.

I don't know how long dried beans will keep: after a certain period
(18 months? two years? Just guessing) they won't soften properly,
however long you cook them for.

There are two more broad beany varieties worth trying: one called
"field beans" and the other, "ful (pronounced "fool") medamess". The
plants look just like broad beans, but the seeds are not flat, and
only about the size of a big pea. The "ful medamess" ones have a less
tough skin, and are a much-loved staple in the Middle East, especially
Egypt: absoluitely delicious with lemon juice, olive oil, and hot
bread. If you want to try them, a shop serving Arab stuff will oblige.

I forecast high winds, though...

--
Mike.
  #13  
Old 06-04-2011, 06:19 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 761
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

On 06/04/2011 18:13, Mike Lyle wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:38:40 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 06/04/2011 16:08, wrote:

[...]

I dried a load last year, but haven't got around to soaking and cooking them
this year yet. But I have assumed that it is the sensible thing to do!


I've tried using runner bean seeds in a similar way, they work
reasonably well if soaked, cooked and put through a blender and mixed
with minced beef for use in chillies or bolognese sauce.


Runner bean seeds are, if I mistake not, "red kidney beans". This
means they're toxic if you don't boil for ten minutes -- if dried
soak, of course. I like the shape and texture, and wouldn't often
blitz them: when I remember (hah!), I cook them separately, and only
add them to the chili at the end to warm them up.


Red kidney bean beans are smaller than runner bean beans, so they must
be a different variety at least. I find it all rather confusing. Even
the garden centre has at least thirty different types / varieties of
"beans" for sale - and from what someone said in another post broad
beans and runner beans aren't even related! The word "bean" seems to be
somewhat generic in usage and confusing for an old has-bean like me. LOL.




I don't know how long dried beans will keep: after a certain period
(18 months? two years? Just guessing) they won't soften properly,
however long you cook them for.


I don't know how long they keep for edible purposes, but I've planted
runner bean seeds that I'd gathered five years earlier and they all
germinated!


There are two more broad beany varieties worth trying: one called
"field beans" and the other, "ful (pronounced "fool") medamess". The
plants look just like broad beans, but the seeds are not flat, and
only about the size of a big pea. The "ful medamess" ones have a less
tough skin, and are a much-loved staple in the Middle East, especially
Egypt: absoluitely delicious with lemon juice, olive oil, and hot
bread. If you want to try them, a shop serving Arab stuff will oblige.

I forecast high winds, though...


The windiness can be reduced by letting the beans soak in three or four
changes of boiling water over 24 hours prior to using them. Tip c/o Nick
Maclaren (spelling uncertain).


--
David in Normandy.

To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.
  #14  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:16 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
Registered User
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2005
Posts: 545
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:19:09 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 06/04/2011 18:13, Mike Lyle wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:38:40 +0200, David in Normandy
wrote:

On 06/04/2011 16:08, wrote:

[...]

I dried a load last year, but haven't got around to soaking and cooking them
this year yet. But I have assumed that it is the sensible thing to do!

I've tried using runner bean seeds in a similar way, they work
reasonably well if soaked, cooked and put through a blender and mixed
with minced beef for use in chillies or bolognese sauce.


Runner bean seeds are, if I mistake not, "red kidney beans". This
means they're toxic if you don't boil for ten minutes -- if dried
soak, of course. I like the shape and texture, and wouldn't often
blitz them: when I remember (hah!), I cook them separately, and only
add them to the chili at the end to warm them up.


Red kidney bean beans are smaller than runner bean beans, so they must
be a different variety at least. I find it all rather confusing. Even
the garden centre has at least thirty different types / varieties of
"beans" for sale - and from what someone said in another post broad
beans and runner beans aren't even related! The word "bean" seems to be
somewhat generic in usage and confusing for an old has-bean like me. LOL.


I think most (all?) of them are just cultivars of Phaseolus vulgaris:
they come in a wide range of forms. Not the broad bean clan, of
course: they're Vicia faba.




I don't know how long dried beans will keep: after a certain period
(18 months? two years? Just guessing) they won't soften properly,
however long you cook them for.


I don't know how long they keep for edible purposes, but I've planted
runner bean seeds that I'd gathered five years earlier and they all
germinated!


Sure. But I don't think they'd have been tender on the plate.


There are two more broad beany varieties worth trying: one called
"field beans" and the other, "ful (pronounced "fool") medamess". The
plants look just like broad beans, but the seeds are not flat, and
only about the size of a big pea. The "ful medamess" ones have a less
tough skin, and are a much-loved staple in the Middle East, especially
Egypt: absoluitely delicious with lemon juice, olive oil, and hot
bread. If you want to try them, a shop serving Arab stuff will oblige.

I forecast high winds, though...


The windiness can be reduced by letting the beans soak in three or four
changes of boiling water over 24 hours prior to using them. Tip c/o Nick
Maclaren (spelling uncertain).


Ah, a variant. If doing a long soak, I soak in cold water, with or
without a change half-way; then drain and cook in fresh water, then
usually change the cooking water. Otherwise, it's the short hot soak,
which may be more fartacious: I'm not sure.

--
Mike.
  #15  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:49 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,103
Default Beans, danger of cross pollination?

On Apr 6, 12:46*pm, David in Normandy
wrote:
On 06/04/2011 12:38, Baz wrote:





David in *wrote in
.fr:


For the first time I'm growing broad beans. However I always grow
runner beans and collect some of the dried pods for the following
years seeds. Runner bean variety "Streamline" or at least that is what
it said on the original packet ten years ago! I've always found it a
good strong variety, pest resistant and the pods string-less. Could
broad beans cross pollinate with the runner beans and lead to hybrid
bean seeds for planting next year? I'm also assuming such crosses
would not be desirable?


David, I can only speak from my experience over the last 4? years.
I save seed from all beans and I have not noticed any X pollination at all.
Time will tell?
My broad bean "Aquadulce Claudia" already have small pods BTW, and "The
Sutton" are about ready to flower.
I only know of one chap who grows runner bean "Streamline" and I have some
seed from him, (they are rather old) and with what you have said about them
perhaps it's time I gave them a try. I have grown "Scarlet Emperor" since I
started gardening and have found them a bit stringy later on so maybe time
to try something new(to me). Or both.
I am sure that you have resarched growing broad beans, but it will do no
harm if I advise you to nip out the top of each plant when pods have set to
avoid greenfly, THE pest on broad beans from my experience.


I hope you find all this useful.
Baz


Thank you for the advice. I'm a total newbie to broad beans. I've just
planted some beans directly into the ground but have no idea how high
they will grow. According to the internet broad beans grow three to four
feet high so I've planted the beans between some pea sticks of that
height I've cut from my hazel trees. I don't know if they will be strong
enough. I always grow my runner beans up 8 foot bamboo canes all
fastened together in a long strong wigwam.

I've a few broad beans around 8 inches high in individual plant pots
that I germinated indoors and they've been outside the last few days
hardening off - I plan to try growing them around a bamboo wigwam. I am
assuming that broad beans twist themselves around supports the same as
runner beans?

Another very silly question - can broad beans be eaten as green beans ie
the pods and later on just the beans shelled from the pods themselves?
If eaten as beans (seeds) can they be allowed to fully ripen and be kept
dry overwinter for use in stews etc? The name of the variety is
something like Swiss white (Suisse blanc). The beans themselves are
white and approximately the size of the beans you get in baked bean
tins, not the huge beans I've seem other people with.

--
David in Normandy. *
* *To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
* *subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
* *by a filter and not reach my inbox.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Broad beans don't generally need support except in very windy places.
The hieght can be from a foot to three feet. Some have multiple
shoots from the bottom,some just the one.
Your worst problem will probably be blackfly on the top leaves of the
plant.
You can spray with nasty insecticide, if available in France, or
remove the top few inches of plant when they appear. This encourages
the lower beans to develope faster too.
 




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