'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?
--
Pete C

On 21/04/2013 19:41, Pete C wrote:
'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Next thing will be the banning of shelves.

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:41:23 +0100, "Pete C"
wrote:

'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Don't know for certain that the ban is going ahead. The evidence seem
conflicting, even though a lot of people are convinced.
See http://tinyurl.com/bsuywct for lots of references on the
likelihood of a ban happening. The following list of neonicotinoids
comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid

Acetamiprid
Clothianidin
Dinotefuran
Imidacloprid
Nitenpyram
Thiacloprid
Thiamethoxam

As to the pesticides containing these chemicals, this list from The
Soil Association:
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides


Thanks for that Chris. I think I've got a Bug Gun in the shed. Will dispose
of it when I find out how.
--
Pete C

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:41:23 +0100, "Pete C"
wrote:

'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

A ban on neonicotinoids is not imminent but restrictions are being
considered at EU level at this time. Bayer, Syngenta et al and the
agriculture industry are doing their best to block/stall action, but I
think some restrictions will be phased in over time. Whilst
neonicotinoids are used in domestic products (a Bayer product that I
have used in the past, Provado, comes to mind) the real problem is the
large scale use of imidacloprid on cereal seeds - this is what is
being cited as a primary cause of the decline in the bee population.
--
rbel

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 21/04/2013 19:41, Pete C wrote:
'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Next thing will be the banning of shelves.

No no, shelves will be OK if fitted by a qualified shelf fitter and a safety
certificate issued. Brackets will need testing annually.
--
Pete C

"Pete C" wrote in message
...


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 21/04/2013 19:41, Pete C wrote:
'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Next thing will be the banning of shelves.

No no, shelves will be OK if fitted by a qualified shelf fitter and a safety
certificate issued. Brackets will need testing annually.
--
Pete C
.............................................

Pete you may joke, but I heard yesterday that the men cutting the grass on
the banks of the little steam going though the roundabout in the centre of
town have to wear life jackets!

Elf 'n' Safety gone mad. Apparently the men sweeping the roads have to wear
hard hats.

..

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:12:30 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:42:04 +0100, rbel wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:41:23 +0100, "Pete C"
wrote:

'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

A ban on neonicotinoids is not imminent but restrictions are being
considered at EU level at this time. Bayer, Syngenta et al and the
agriculture industry are doing their best to block/stall action, but I
think some restrictions will be phased in over time. Whilst
neonicotinoids are used in domestic products (a Bayer product that I
have used in the past, Provado, comes to mind) the real problem is the
large scale use of imidacloprid on cereal seeds - this is what is
being cited as a primary cause of the decline in the bee population.

Not sure you're right about the cereals bit - cereals are
wind-pollinated, don't produce nectar and don't attract bees, which
are the major cause of concern, but I may be wrong. OTOH oilseed rape
is extensively grown and is very attractive to bees, and a great deal
of the seed is coated with neonicotinoids, apparently.

You are correct in highlighting OSR sprayed with neonicotinoids as a
problem for bees, however it is the dust drift from large scale
treated cereal seeding that has been causing considerable concern. I
read about this in a paper published during late 2011 which was based
on research in Germany - I imagine that it will be lurking online
somewhere (perhaps defra).
--
rbel

I've also heard about this and it was because of the harmful effect of this pesticides.

On 21/04/2013 19:41, Pete C wrote:
'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

This was covered in some detail on yesterday's "Countryfile" (available
on BBC iPlayer). There is a lot of research going on, the majority of
which has yet to be concluded.

Even a bee-keeper on the programme - who you might expect would want
them banned just in case - said very sensibly that he just wanted to
know one way or the other whether or not neonicotinoids were causing
problems for his bees.

--

Jeff

On 21/04/2013 20:48, Pete C wrote:
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 21/04/2013 19:41, Pete C wrote:
'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Next thing will be the banning of shelves.

No no, shelves will be OK if fitted by a qualified shelf fitter and a safety
certificate issued. Brackets will need testing annually.

Have to take special care to prevent infection by Bracket fungus

On 22/04/2013 09:37, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 08:37:35 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 21/04/2013 19:41, Pete C wrote:
'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

This was covered in some detail on yesterday's "Countryfile" (available
on BBC iPlayer).

Which made no reference to this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/18339797

nor this
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/...th.htm?wtrl=01
"No single cause of declining bee numbers has been identified.
However, several contributing factors have been suggested, acting in
combination or separately. These include the effects of intensive
agriculture and pesticide use, starvation and poor bee nutrition,
viruses, attacks by pathogens and invasive species – such as the
Varroa mite (Varroa destructor), the Asian hornet (Vespa velutina),
the small hive beetle Aethina tumida and the bee mite Tropilaelaps –
genetically modified plants, and environmental changes (e.g. habitat
fragmentation and loss)."

True, but I don't think that the programme was considering
neonicotinoids as the sole cause of the decline in bees, just what part
they might (or might not) be playing.

I'm afraid that I only got as far as the second paragraph in the EFSA
article. Firstly, it states "The Food and Agriculture Organization of
the United Nations (FAO) estimates that of the 100 crop species that
provide 90% of food worldwide, 71 are pollinated by bees[1].".
"Estimates"? Surely it should be "estimated" as that FAO statement was
made in December 2005. Secondly, that FAO statement seems designed to
mislead. What it doesn't emphasise is that the 29 crop species which
aren't pollinated by bees include the vast majority of the world's
staple foods. In particular the cereals such as wheat, rice, and corn
are all wind pollinated.

--

Jeff

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:41:23 +0100, "Pete C"
wrote:

'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Quite a lot will be banned or modified but, in my opinion, that won't
be such a bad thing. I have been gardening without pesticides for
years and I'm quite pleased with the results.

Steve

--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

"Martin" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 14:20:04 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:41:23 +0100, "Pete C"
wrote:

'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Quite a lot will be banned or modified but, in my opinion, that won't
be such a bad thing. I have been gardening without pesticides for
years and I'm quite pleased with the results.

You don't grow 200 acres of rape seed or anything else for a living
do you?
--

Martin in Zuid Holland
.................................................. ............

Martin that is a very interesting comparison. When my parents had their
hotel, those who 'sneaked in' the B&B into their homes without the cost of
advertising, staff, rates etc, and were making a killing and thought that
hotel keeping was a bottomless pocket. Some bought small B&B Guest Houses
and realised what it was all about :-(

Mike

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:32:11 +0200, Martin wrote:

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 14:20:04 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:41:23 +0100, "Pete C"
wrote:

'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Quite a lot will be banned or modified but, in my opinion, that won't
be such a bad thing. I have been gardening without pesticides for
years and I'm quite pleased with the results.

You don't grow 200 acres of rape seed or anything else for a living
do you?

I am sure you would agree that pressure should be maintained on Bayer
et al to design/manufacture pesticides that do not have potentially
adverse side effects on wildlife, particularly on something as
valuable to plant life as the bee.
--
rbel

On 22/04/2013 14:20, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:41:23 +0100, "Pete C"
wrote:

'If' I've heard right, something called neonicotinoids (sp) are to be
banned. Does anyone know what products will disappear from garden centre
shelves?

Quite a lot will be banned or modified but, in my opinion, that won't
be such a bad thing. I have been gardening without pesticides for
years and I'm quite pleased with the results.

Steve

Of course you haven't had problems. That is because pesticide use keeps
pests down to manageable numbers which have limited effects. So you
don't have trouble because many around you are using pesticides, thus
limiting what damage they might do to your plants. Let's call it
"collateral benefit".

If you don't believe this, all you have to do is look at the damage
caused by pests (and diseases) where there is no treatment. I may be
wrong, but I expect that you don't exist solely on what you can grow.
If you did, and your food supply for the next year was decimated by
locusts, you might have a different view on pesticide use.

--

Jeff