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Old 25-10-2014, 09:48 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide


"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
In message
Chris Hogg wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:57:17 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote:

I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at
least
that
is what I was told to do.

There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is
smoke
(as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke,
rested
on
the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into
the
compost).

--

Jeff


that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it.

It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for
Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an
evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South
African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young
seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through,
there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the
point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire.
Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process.

I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination
of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say
how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test
alongside it.



Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world
(although
it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because
it
will lead to him being very disappointed.
And I wouldn't like that.



I don't know what gives you the idea that either Jeff or I were
encouraging him in what we said. Between us we made it clear that
smoke treatment would neither sterilise nor promote germination of
alder seeds. Threads on usenet drift. Michael has been around long
enough to know that.


Indeed so. Smoke is a diversion from my main interest: alder. But it
might be of interest in getting Sequoia to germinate.


Michael Bell


OMG. Michael, don't start on sequoia. You are a very kind person but you
need to give up on trying to feed the world with seeds.
It's not possible.






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  #17   Report Post  
Old 25-10-2014, 09:54 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide

In article ,
says...


You are a very kind person but you
need to give up on trying to feed the world with seeds.
It's not possible.


Rice corn and wheat seeds seem to be doing pretty well

Janet


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Old 25-10-2014, 11:17 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide

In message
"Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
In message
Chris Hogg wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:57:17 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote:

I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at
least
that
is what I was told to do.

There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is
smoke
(as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke,
rested
on
the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into
the
compost).

--

Jeff


that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it.

It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for
Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an
evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South
African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young
seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through,
there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the
point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire.
Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process.

I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination
of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say
how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test
alongside it.



Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world
(although
it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because
it
will lead to him being very disappointed.
And I wouldn't like that.



I don't know what gives you the idea that either Jeff or I were
encouraging him in what we said. Between us we made it clear that
smoke treatment would neither sterilise nor promote germination of
alder seeds. Threads on usenet drift. Michael has been around long
enough to know that.


Indeed so. Smoke is a diversion from my main interest: alder. But it
might be of interest in getting Sequoia to germinate.


Michael Bell



OMG. Michael, don't start on sequoia. You are a very kind person but you
need to give up on trying to feed the world with seeds.
It's not possible.


Sequoia is a wholly separate project. My partner in this is a man who
wants to leave sequoia trees all over the place like a kind of Johnny
Appleseed. It is HIS project.

Michael Bell
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Old 26-10-2014, 01:14 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide


"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...


You are a very kind person but you
need to give up on trying to feed the world with seeds.
It's not possible.


Rice corn and wheat seeds seem to be doing pretty well

Janet


alder will not, and don't try and make me a bad person for pointing this
out. It's time someone did.



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Old 26-10-2014, 01:45 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide


"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world
(although
it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because
it
will lead to him being very disappointed.
And I wouldn't like that.


iirc his posting to urg, Michael has been happily pursuing his alder
objective for many years, without the least sign of progress, success,
disappointment or discouragement.

IOW he is happy to be obsessed with growing his hearts desire. Pretty
much like most longterm gardeners here.


The difference between a world-changing visionary and someone just
riding a hobby-horse can be told only long after the event. I don't
give him a high chance of pulling this off, but I commend his
vision and determination.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



so do I but at some point he has to be to advised that is is very unlikely
that alder seeds will feed the world and he should maybe turn his talent to
something else.
but no-one has the courage to say so.
Of course I would like someone to say they have huge alder seeds, but no-one
did.
I like the idea but it's not possible




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Old 26-10-2014, 09:31 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 310
Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide

Christina Websell wrote:

alder will not, and don't try and make me a bad person for pointing this
out. It's time someone did.


Looking at the evidence here, and in other groups where Michael
espouses what one can at best describe as a different view of
life, what becomes abundantly clear is that he remains impervious
to all suggestions that his efforts are misplaced.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.
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Old 26-10-2014, 10:00 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 2,520
Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world
(although
it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much
because it
will lead to him being very disappointed.
And I wouldn't like that.

iirc his posting to urg, Michael has been happily pursuing his alder
objective for many years, without the least sign of progress, success,
disappointment or discouragement.

IOW he is happy to be obsessed with growing his hearts desire. Pretty
much like most longterm gardeners here.


The difference between a world-changing visionary and someone just
riding a hobby-horse can be told only long after the event. I don't
give him a high chance of pulling this off, but I commend his
vision and determination.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



so do I but at some point he has to be to advised that is is very unlikely
that alder seeds will feed the world and he should maybe turn his talent
to something else.
but no-one has the courage to say so.
Of course I would like someone to say they have huge alder seeds, but
no-one did.
I like the idea but it's not possible

I have no idea if in this instance you are right or wrong having next to no
knowledge of alder, but you have to admit when you see examples of the
original wild plants that many of our grains and veg come from you wouldn't
have given them much hope either!

But you are wrong on one count, people did point out it was a daft idea in
the first place, its just most of us think having given the warning, being
helpful is now the best way forward. (and he has already achieved several
things I didn't think he could do so I am learning to!)

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

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Old 26-10-2014, 10:47 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 767
Default Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide

Chris J Dixon and Christina Websell wrote things like:

alder will not, and don't try and make me a bad person for pointing this
out. It's time someone did.


It depends what you mean by 'bad' :-) If I were evaluating this,
er, debate as an exercise in scientific reasoning, Michael would
get a 'B' and you both would get an 'E'. That's a bad mark ....

He has provided well thought out reasons why he is tackling the
task, and described a viable procedure, but has provided little
evidence why the task should succeed. Hence only a 'B'.

You have provided no reasoning at all, other than the classically
spurious ones of "He hasn't done it yet".


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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