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Tree of 40 fruit
Hi everyone.
I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on details they can learn for themselves. Help! NT |
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Tree of 40 fruit
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#3
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Tree of 40 fruit
On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:15:10 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:39:27 -0800 (PST), wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on details they can learn for themselves. Help! NT I have my doubts about 40 different fruit on a single tree; maybe half a dozen, such as six stone fruits (peach, nectarine, damson, plum, apricot,) or a mix of apples and pears perhaps, or several citrus fruits (orange, lemon, grapefruit, lime, mandarin etc), but You may get some useful info from one of the web sites listed here https://tinyurl.com/yb6lmme7 Ah, but I stand corrected! I've just found this lot: https://tinyurl.com/ycsq424r which may give you the info you want. Fascinating. I had got as far as concluding that you would have to start with an established host tree for it to be strong enough to support many different grafts without each graft fighting all the others. From that point, as far as I can see you could have a family tree with any number of varieties if you started with, say, a 10 year old tree. I must say that it is an attractive idea. Having a main crop apple that you like the most, then adding a branch here and there of different varieties, possibly to increase fertilisation as well as variety. Noted that the original aim was an art project to create multi-colour blossom displays. I wonder how old a tree has to be before it stops accepting grafts. There is many an ancient apple tree around which could perhaps have a new lease of life. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#4
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Tree of 40 fruit
On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The 40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical. audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on details they can learn for themselves. Help! Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support. They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant. That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well. There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible NT |
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Tree of 40 fruit
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#6
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Tree of 40 fruit
On Monday, 4 December 2017 09:46:07 UTC, RedAcer wrote:
On 01/12/17 22:47, tabbypurr wrote: On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote: On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The 40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical. audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on details they can learn for themselves. Help! Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support. They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant. That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well. There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible NT There's some info here plus a link to a TED talk https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/03/337164041/the-gift-of-graft-new-york-artists-tree-to-grow-40-kinds-of-fruit Yes I've seen those and more. They just don't contain enough info to enable someone to do likewise. NT |
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Tree of 40 fruit
On Tuesday, 5 December 2017 08:30:55 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/12/2017 22:47, tabbypurr wrote: On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote: On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The 40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical. audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on details they can learn for themselves. Help! Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support. They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant.. That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well. There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible There are, but they are done by artists and will surely be very short lived and fragile. Family trees of 4 or 5 fruit varieties are about the realistic limit for grafting with apples and pears. You have to pick the order carefully so that each one is approximately suited to the vigor of the previous stock if they are grafted as a chain or take one vigourous established rootstock tree and bud graft a whole load of things onto it and pray. Eventually you may be rewarded. http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/...g-fruit-trees/ The grafting step is no different to any other sort of grafting. The choice of varieties that will cohabit peacefully is much more tricky. I don't expect the artist who did this really cares about that so long as it looks absolutely fantastic for one season. That link's informative but way too complex. If I can't give a set of instructions in at the outside 10 minutes, preferably 5, that enable folk to graft with at least some success, then it won't fly. I don't have the grafting skill to condense those pages into a quick basic guide. NT |
#9
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Tree of 40 fruit
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#10
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Tree of 40 fruit
On 06/12/2017 09:02, John Williamson wrote:
On 05/12/2017 23:25, wrote: That link's informative but way too complex. If I can't give a set of instructions in at the outside 10 minutes, preferably 5, that enable folk to graft with at least some success, then it won't fly. I don't have the grafting skill to condense those pages into a quick basic guide. Not every problem has a simple answer. Telling people how to graft in ten minutes is possible, especially if you do a "show and tell". Explaining the complex rules for successfully getting 40 different fruits on one tree will take a bit longer, as it's a much more complex subject. Apparently someone managed 250 apple varieties on a single trunk. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science...eties-of-apple -- alias Ernest Major |
#11
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Tree of 40 fruit
On 05/12/2017 23:25, wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 December 2017 08:30:55 UTC, Martin Brown wrote: On 01/12/2017 22:47, tabbypurr wrote: On Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:32:22 UTC, Martin Brown wrote: On 30/11/2017 00:39, tabbypurr wrote: Hi everyone. I'd like to explain in the simplest possible terms how to grow a grafted tree of 40 different fruit to someone that knows nothing about gardening. And I don't know all the details myself! The 40 sounds a bit of a push unless you allow different varieties of the same fruit. I suppose a multistemmed variety of wild prunus with as many prunus cultivars bud grafted onto long supported stems might get you there. Does it have to be 40? You will spend most of the time just reading out all the names. 3 or 4 is a lot more practical. audience will include interested children as well as adults. I don't need to touch on details they can learn for themselves. Help! Family apple trees usually limit themselves to 3 or 4 since you have to match the vigour of the stock scion pair to the next tier down and there is a limit to how much top growth the rootstock can support. They also need careful watching or one variety will run away - usually the one directly connected to the rootstock. I have Sunset on Egremont Russet on M9 and it works very well even though the russet is dominant. That's 3 if you allowed a rootstock sucker to fruit as well. There are trees with 40 on, I just need to explain how to do it as simply as possible There are, but they are done by artists and will surely be very short lived and fragile. Family trees of 4 or 5 fruit varieties are about the realistic limit for grafting with apples and pears. You have to pick the order carefully so that each one is approximately suited to the vigor of the previous stock if they are grafted as a chain or take one vigourous established rootstock tree and bud graft a whole load of things onto it and pray. Eventually you may be rewarded. http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/...g-fruit-trees/ The grafting step is no different to any other sort of grafting. The choice of varieties that will cohabit peacefully is much more tricky. I don't expect the artist who did this really cares about that so long as it looks absolutely fantastic for one season. That link's informative but way too complex. If I can't give a set of instructions in at the outside 10 minutes, preferably 5, that enable folk to graft with at least some success, then it won't fly. I don't have the grafting skill to condense those pages into a quick basic guide. Even for someone with a steady hand and a very sharp knife grafting is a bit pot luck since the joint union has to match phloem and xylem across the graft well enough that the scion survives long enough for the wound to heal. The cleft graft or its modified form are about the easiest to do. The whip graft is about the hardest to get right (and will need many practice attempts to even get close to the right matching shapes). After using the sharpest possible knife to minimise cellular damage immobilising it so that the graft takes rather than flaps around in the breeze and dries out is probably the next most important thing. Grafting isn't easy. I have had plenty fail including some where as a result I lost the cultivar I was trying to preserve. Putting a piece of pear/apple onto a tree that is short of a pollenator may be worth a try. We used to swap a piece of pear tree with someone at work. I'd hazard a guess that early success rates will be less than 10% (and that's assuming you have the necessary dexterity to do it at all). -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#12
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Tree of 40 fruit
On Wednesday, 6 December 2017 09:02:22 UTC, John Williamson wrote:
On 05/12/2017 23:25, tabbypurr wrote: That link's informative but way too complex. If I can't give a set of instructions in at the outside 10 minutes, preferably 5, that enable folk to graft with at least some success, then it won't fly. I don't have the grafting skill to condense those pages into a quick basic guide. Not every problem has a simple answer. Telling people how to graft in ten minutes is possible, especially if you do a "show and tell". Explaining the complex rules for successfully getting 40 different fruits on one tree will take a bit longer, as it's a much more complex subject. Show & tell won't be possible. I guess I have to give up on the idea. I daresay if I knew more about it I could come up with something to get people started, but I don't. Thank you everyone. NT |
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