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  #16   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 08:32 AM
Ron
 
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Default Bluebell seeds


"Pam Moore" wrote in message

Snip

NO. Why deplete the countyside even further of this vanishing English
bluebell?


Nick answers that.

Chiltern sell packets of bluebell seed.


I wonder what species they are.

Might they be Spanish or hybrids? I would not risk buying them unless sure
that they are not.

Are they collected from the wild for sale? Some wild flower seeds are
collected for profit and I deplore that! Of course, if the market was to
dry up . . . . . . . !

Regards

Ron






  #17   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 08:32 AM
Ron
 
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Default Bluebell seeds


"Pam Moore" wrote in message

Snip

NO. Why deplete the countyside even further of this vanishing English
bluebell?


Nick answers that.

Chiltern sell packets of bluebell seed.


I wonder what species they are.

Might they be Spanish or hybrids? I would not risk buying them unless sure
that they are not.

Are they collected from the wild for sale? Some wild flower seeds are
collected for profit and I deplore that! Of course, if the market was to
dry up . . . . . . . !

Regards

Ron






  #18   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 09:20 AM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds


"Pam Moore" wrote in message

Snip

NO. Why deplete the countyside even further of this vanishing English
bluebell?


Nick Maclaren answers that.

Chiltern sell packets of bluebell seed.


I wonder what species they are.

Might they be Spanish or hybrids? I would not risk buying them unless sure
that they are not.

Are they collected from the wild for sale? Some wild flower seeds are
collected for profit in this and other contries. Many of the seeds so
collected will never live to "see" the earth. It's the commercial
collection and sale of wild flower seeds that should be banned. However, if
the market was to dry up . . . . . . . but I dare say there will always be
some who are too lazy to collect a few such seeds for their own use.

Regarding the fact that I collected 8 ounces of bluebell seeds, a
microscopic percentage of those available. The areas from which I
collected were so thick with bluebells that there was hardly room for any
more to grow except in the "ploughed" areas left by the tractors and logging
trailers where there were thousands of squashed bluebell bulbs and
perchance, millions of seeds already. A couple of ounces of my seeds were
scattered by the steward in a wooded conservation area where there was only
a few bluebells and some I grew on (mainly because I received no request for
seeds after a letter in the local press). The rest "fell at the wayside"
where I hope many flourished.

Regards

Ron






































  #19   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 09:36 AM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds

Urglers,

What the H - - -'s my computer up to?

Sorry about that.

Ron


  #20   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 12:08 PM
Ophelia
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds


"Ron" wrote in message
...

A couple of ounces of my seeds were
scattered by the steward in a wooded conservation area where there was

only
a few bluebells and some I grew on (mainly because I received no request

for
seeds after a letter in the local press). The rest "fell at the wayside"
where I hope many flourished.


What a pity. The few times I have seen that someone has bluebell seeds to
give or swap I jump at it but have never been successful

Ophelia




  #21   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 12:20 PM
Annabel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds


"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Annabel wrote:

Collecting seed from the wild is illegal and is partly what has been
blamed on the reduction and/or local extinction of some species of

plant
not least in the huge quantity that you say you took. I'm not sure if
planting seed in ground where you have no permission is illegal but

it
is very definitely frowned on and irresponsible, and it has led to

the
degradation of local races i.e. the rapid increase in Spanish

bluebell
in the u.k.


You are seriously confused. No, it is not illegal in the UK, in
general, but may be for some plants.


Wrong. Takeing without consent is theft

It has little or no effect
on the reproduction of species like bluebells, which use seed mainly
to propagate themselves to new areas.


If sufficient harvests from the wild are done then the species will
decline, note spectacular examples such as cod and whales

And, no, it has not helped
with the spread of Spanish bluebells - as the poster assumed, it
would probably reduce that effect.


Absolute rubbish, if genetically impure bluebells (when the impurity! is
dominant as is the case with spanish bluebells) are put itnto an area
with english bluebells the there is only one result and its certainly
not to reduce the effect of spanish bluebells

However, there are SOME plants in SOME places where your statements
would be true. Almost always annuals, for obvious reasons.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


To all
Elsewhere in this thread I was asked if I could cite my sources, well I
cant at the moment, however when I asked in this very newsgroup a year
or so ago if I could remove bluebells from a private garden I was given
lots of advice that iirc included legal refs, and that technically you
cannot weed, kill vermin etc, that to remove something from property
you must have the landowners permission.


Bell



  #22   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 04:32 PM
Kay Easton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds

In article , Annabel
writes

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Annabel wrote:



It has little or no effect
on the reproduction of species like bluebells, which use seed mainly
to propagate themselves to new areas.


If sufficient harvests from the wild are done then the species will
decline, note spectacular examples such as cod and whales


That is a strange analogy. We were talking about taking seed from plants
which produce an abundance of seed, with a low survival rate to
maturity. This is not the same as taking the whole plant, which is the
equivalent of harvesting cod or whales.

And, no, it has not helped
with the spread of Spanish bluebells - as the poster assumed, it
would probably reduce that effect.


Absolute rubbish, if genetically impure bluebells (when the impurity! is
dominant as is the case with spanish bluebells) are put itnto an area
with english bluebells the there is only one result and its certainly
not to reduce the effect of spanish bluebells


But that wasn't what was being discussed. What was being discussed was
introducing English bluebells into an area where there were none.


To all
Elsewhere in this thread I was asked if I could cite my sources, well I
cant at the moment, however when I asked in this very newsgroup a year
or so ago if I could remove bluebells from a private garden I was given
lots of advice that iirc included legal refs, and that technically you
cannot weed, kill vermin etc, that to remove something from property
you must have the landowners permission.

There's a difference between collecting seed and removing plants.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm
  #23   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 08:56 PM
Annabel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds


"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Annabel
writes

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Annabel wrote:



It has little or no effect
on the reproduction of species like bluebells, which use seed

mainly
to propagate themselves to new areas.


If sufficient harvests from the wild are done then the species will
decline, note spectacular examples such as cod and whales


That is a strange analogy. We were talking about taking seed from

plants
which produce an abundance of seed, with a low survival rate to
maturity. This is not the same as taking the whole plant, which is the
equivalent of harvesting cod or whales.


Ok, but what I was pointing out was desimation of species that were once
believed to be so numerous that human activity could not influence there
numbers.. I have searched back threads a little to find that the
scarcity of the primrose, a perenial, is said to be due to flower
picking. It was stated earlier that perenials were not generally at risk
and as we older ones know the primrose was a very common sight


And, no, it has not helped
with the spread of Spanish bluebells - as the poster assumed, it
would probably reduce that effect.


Absolute rubbish, if genetically impure bluebells (when the impurity!

is
dominant as is the case with spanish bluebells) are put itnto an area
with english bluebells the there is only one result and its certainly
not to reduce the effect of spanish bluebells


But that wasn't what was being discussed. What was being discussed was
introducing English bluebells


The poster has stated spanish bluebells

into an area where there were none.


To all
Elsewhere in this thread I was asked if I could cite my sources, well

I
cant at the moment, however when I asked in this very newsgroup a

year
or so ago if I could remove bluebells from a private garden I was

given
lots of advice that iirc included legal refs, and that technically

you
cannot weed, kill vermin etc, that to remove something from property
you must have the landowners permission.

There's a difference between collecting seed and removing plants.


No theres not. Can you not imagin the effect of going to a nursery or
private garden or indeed if anybody who fancies comes to your garden to
remove seeds, and dont forget tresspass will not work as you have to sue
for damages when you say no damage has been done.

bel



--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm



  #24   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 10:08 PM
Pam Moore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 06:46:11 +0100, "Ron"
wrote:

Chiltern sell packets of bluebell seed.

I wonder what species they are.


http://www.edirectory.co.uk/chiltern...es/Default.asp
Last item on that page.

Scilla non scripta; true wild species.

I have sown 2 pots with them.
Fingers crossed, but I have Spanish in my garden so don't know what
chance the above will have if I do have success with the seed.
Perhaps you should challenge them,.

Pam in Bristol
  #25   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 11:08 PM
Nick Maclaren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds

In article ,
Annabel wrote:

You are seriously confused. No, it is not illegal in the UK, in
general, but may be for some plants.


Wrong. Takeing without consent is theft


Taking property is. Wild plants are not property. OK?

It has little or no effect
on the reproduction of species like bluebells, which use seed mainly
to propagate themselves to new areas.


If sufficient harvests from the wild are done then the species will
decline, note spectacular examples such as cod and whales


For heaven's sake! Please do at least try to read what I post before
weebling on.

And, no, it has not helped
with the spread of Spanish bluebells - as the poster assumed, it
would probably reduce that effect.


Absolute rubbish, if genetically impure bluebells (when the impurity! is
dominant as is the case with spanish bluebells) are put itnto an area
with english bluebells the there is only one result and its certainly
not to reduce the effect of spanish bluebells


What on earth are you on about? I was referring to the use of English
bluebell seed, which is what the original poster was intending to use.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


  #26   Report Post  
Old 15-06-2003, 11:44 PM
Annabel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds


"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Annabel wrote:

You are seriously confused. No, it is not illegal in the UK, in
general, but may be for some plants.


Wrong. Takeing without consent is theft


Taking property is. Wild plants are not property. OK?


What absolut rubbish

It has little or no effect
on the reproduction of species like bluebells, which use seed

mainly
to propagate themselves to new areas.


If sufficient harvests from the wild are done then the species will
decline, note spectacular examples such as cod and whales


For heaven's sake! Please do at least try to read what I post before
weebling on.

And, no, it has not helped
with the spread of Spanish bluebells - as the poster assumed, it
would probably reduce that effect.


Absolute rubbish, if genetically impure bluebells (when the impurity!

is
dominant as is the case with spanish bluebells) are put itnto an area
with english bluebells the there is only one result and its certainly
not to reduce the effect of spanish bluebells


What on earth are you on about? I was referring to the use of English
bluebell seed, which is what the original poster was intending to use.


Above you say " Please do at least try to read what I post before
weebling on." Now you say english bluebells but please read the op's
post 14/06/03 10:13 , need I say more

bel


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



  #27   Report Post  
Old 16-06-2003, 12:44 AM
Kay Easton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds

In article , Annabel
writes


Ok, but what I was pointing out was desimation of species that were once
believed to be so numerous that human activity could not influence there
numbers.. I have searched back threads a little to find that the
scarcity of the primrose, a perenial, is said to be due to flower
picking. It was stated earlier that perenials were not generally at risk
and as we older ones know the primrose was a very common sight


Although primrose is a perennial, it tends to spread by seed rather than
vegetatively.


But that wasn't what was being discussed. What was being discussed was
introducing English bluebells


The poster has stated spanish bluebells


That was the original poster. The one who had collected seed and
scattered along the verge had collected seed of the english bluebell.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm
  #28   Report Post  
Old 16-06-2003, 05:09 PM
Mike Lyle
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds

Kay Easton wrote in message ...
In article , Annabel
writes



Collecting seed from the wild is illegal


Are you sure of that? Can you specify the legislation that it comes
under?

Uprooting plants without the owner's permission is illegal, but not,
AFAIK, collecting seed.

[...]

But under UK law all land is somebody's property, and that includes
anything growing on it. So even if it isn't illegal to collect seed of
a particular species (but ISTR the prohibition now covers all
species), without the owner's permission it's ordinary theft to
collect seed from privately-owned plants: i.e., all plants. Catch 23?

Regardless of whether I'm right about that, I think people should take
the Spanish bluebell problem seriously: pollen gets moved about quite
a lot. I was going to plant some "Spaniards" last year, because I
wanted some white ones, and decided not to, to be on the safe side.

Mike.
  #30   Report Post  
Old 16-06-2003, 07:06 PM
Kay Easton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bluebell seeds

In article , Mike Lyle
writes

But under UK law all land is somebody's property, and that includes
anything growing on it. So even if it isn't illegal to collect seed of
a particular species (but ISTR the prohibition now covers all
species)


but which Act made that provision? I don't think that provision has been
made.

, without the owner's permission it's ordinary theft to
collect seed from privately-owned plants: i.e., all plants. Catch 23?


Absolutely, though in practice the local authority, for example, isn't
going to prosecute you for collecting see from a roadside verge, or the
local water works for collecting fungi and blackberries in their woods.

Regardless of whether I'm right about that, I think people should take
the Spanish bluebell problem seriously: pollen gets moved about quite
a lot. I was going to plant some "Spaniards" last year, because I
wanted some white ones, and decided not to, to be on the safe side.


I suspect we are beyond that point - I was shocked to find the bluebells
my father had passed from his garden (which would have been planted 50
years ago) were spanish. I think if you are in an urban site, most of
the bluebells around you are likely to be spanish. Plantlife are doing a
Bluebell survey this year - it will be interesting to see what
distribution they find.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm
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