There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9

According to the manufacturers, the *minimum* shelf life of an unopened
bottle of "Baby Bio Roota" is 2 years. This figure is agreed by MAFF.
If the bottle is in use, the shelf life *may* be shortened due to the
accumulated contamination from soil and plant debris.

I have written to the manufacturers about the shelf life of the powder
"Strike", and will report when I have something to say about it.

Franz

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:30:34 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf life
of rooting hormones.

Thanks Franz. I had wondered about the placebo effect of expired
rooting hormones on plants.
--
Martin

In article , martin
writes
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:30:34 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf life
of rooting hormones.

Thanks Franz. I had wondered about the placebo effect of expired
rooting hormones on plants.

You don't need rooting hormones to propagate plants.

For the nth time :

HORMONE ROOTING POWDER

If you take cuttings at the right time in the right place there is
absolutely no need to use root hormone. In fact using the stuff can have
adverse effects.

According to the RHS book on techniques
---------------------------------------

". . . a substance that sets fruits at one concentration and produces
roots on stem cuttings at another may be used as a weedkiller at yet
another. Thus it is exceedingly important to follow dosage instructions
exactly in order ot obtain the desired results.
It is also important to realize that these chemicals do not
constitute a panacea for success: they will not induce rooting responses
if the inherent abiltiy of the stem to produce roots is not present.
Their action is merely to enhance the innate capacity of the stem to
produce its roots both in greater quantities and quicker than might
otherwise have been the case. If the stem cutting is propagated from a
healthy plant and at the correct season, then the use of such hormones
is usually of no advantage whatsoever. They should be used with
knowledge, and only as and when they are likely to achieve an effect. .
.. . .
. . . it is important to understand one or two basic premises.
Firstly, that the concentration of hormone applied to induce root
formation is not the best concentration to cause root development.
Secondly, although the hormone may be absorbed through the bark, most of
the hormone will be taken up through the cut base of the stem cutting.
In actually applying the hormone therefore take care to touch
only the basal cut surface on to the powder so that no powder adheres to
the outside of the stem . . .
By applying the hormone the roots are induced to form, but if
they emerge and come into contact with the hormone still on the bark
this may cause the roots to die off. "

-------------

Years ago, when I first read this, I experimented by using rooting
powder for half my cuttings and none for the other half. There was
absolutely no difference in the success rate between the two methods.
For the layman, hormone rooting powder is a complete and utter con; just
another way of making money out of the poor gullible general public for
the big chemical companies (

And, quoting Rod Craddock, another urgler, -
Another thing which is not as widely known as it should be, obviously
you
don't shout it too loud if you're selling the stuff is that it has
practically no shelf life, it's probably already past it's best when you
buy
it and pretty well useless soon after you first open it.
I dabbled a bit with rooting hormones when propagating shrubs
commercially
and found it very difficult to get consistent repeatable results even
though
we mixed fresh solutions each time.
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:38:30 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:30:34 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf life
of rooting hormones.

Thanks Franz. I had wondered about the placebo effect of expired
rooting hormones on plants.

You don't need rooting hormones to propagate plants.

For the nth time :

HORMONE ROOTING POWDER

If you take cuttings at the right time in the right place there is
absolutely no need to use root hormone. In fact using the stuff can have
adverse effects.

We know. We don't use it. There's been some in our garage sitting on a
shelf for 10-15 years. It didn't work on our tortoises missing leg
either :-)
--
Martin

Franz Heymann wrote:

There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9

According to the manufacturers, the *minimum* shelf life of an unopened
bottle of "Baby Bio Roota" is 2 years. This figure is agreed by MAFF.
If the bottle is in use, the shelf life *may* be shortened due to the
accumulated contamination from soil and plant debris.

I have written to the manufacturers about the shelf life of the powder
"Strike", and will report when I have something to say about it.

But are you assuming that all the preparations sold domestically are
the same? Surely some may have varying shelf lives depending on
preperation. If in doubt do some with some with out..
As others have pointed out, the techniques and mechanics of the rooting
powder (or solution or gel) ingredients are rarely explained..

I spent a few months in a lab learning the basics of IAA & IBA auxins
the main 'hormones' (scientists apparantly STILL aren't sure if they
strictly are hormones;-) or so we were taught) use for commerial
propagation. As we discovered in some basic lab experiments (repeated by
millions of students all over!) the amounts vary and effects reverse
depending on amounts/concentrations etc.. Ie a tiny amount of one
substance may induce rooting, but may retard it in a larger amount. And
of course this varies from species to species, plus you have other
effects such as temperature, humidity, soil bacteria etc..


Makes you remember how incredible life is a reproducing itself with no
assistance whatsoever!-)

Moving back to the domestic scene Geoff (Hamilton) used to recommend
mixing powder with a little meths for even coverage of cutting bases.


//
Jim

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...
There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9

According to the manufacturers, the *minimum* shelf life of an unopened
bottle of "Baby Bio Roota" is 2 years. This figure is agreed by MAFF.
If the bottle is in use, the shelf life *may* be shortened due to the
accumulated contamination from soil and plant debris.

I have written to the manufacturers about the shelf life of the powder
"Strike", and will report when I have something to say about it.

First report:
The email address quoted in their website turns out to be an invalid adress.

Franz

"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article , martin
writes
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:30:34 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.

Thanks Franz. I had wondered about the placebo effect of expired
rooting hormones on plants.

You don't need rooting hormones to propagate plants.

That is true. However, the use of a rooting hormone speeds up the process
and results in a finer crop of roots quicker in the case of a multitude of
plants.

[snip]

Franz

"Jim W" wrote in message
news:1fzseun.1958i6l189b8duN%00senetnospamtodayta@ macunlimited.net...
Franz Heymann wrote:

There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously
and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9

According to the manufacturers, the *minimum* shelf life of an unopened
bottle of "Baby Bio Roota" is 2 years. This figure is agreed by MAFF.
If the bottle is in use, the shelf life *may* be shortened due to the
accumulated contamination from soil and plant debris.

I have written to the manufacturers about the shelf life of the powder
"Strike", and will report when I have something to say about it.

But are you assuming that all the preparations sold domestically are
the same?

No. I have made a specific statement about "Baby Bio Roota" only. I am not
making any assumptions about any of the others. I am busy making enquiries.

Surely some may have varying shelf lives depending on
preperation.

I have no idea at all about the correctness or otherwise of what you are
saying.

If in doubt do some with some with out..

Neither you nor I am in a position to do a carefully controlled set of
scientifically valid experiments with sufficiently robust statistics to be
able to come to any real conclusion about it.
Cuttings root with or without wxternally applied hormones. They hormones
speed up the rooting process and results in a more luxuriant root growrg.

As others have pointed out, the techniques and mechanics of the rooting
powder (or solution or gel) ingredients are rarely explained..

I don't know what that means.

[snip]

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9
[...]

That URL is also the one which suggests you should use a rooting
hormone for fuchsia and geranium (I assume = pelargonium) cuttings:
among the very easiest plants to propagate at almost any time of year.
Not my first port of call as a source of objective horticultural
information. Anybody who uses that kind of sales talk is a con-man,
and a gardener of Franz's experience knows it.

Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...
There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously
and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9
[...]

That URL is also the one which suggests you should use a rooting
hormone for fuchsia and geranium (I assume = pelargonium) cuttings:
among the very easiest plants to propagate at almost any time of year.
Not my first port of call as a source of objective horticultural
information. Anybody who uses that kind of sales talk is a con-man,
and a gardener of Franz's experience knows it.

Yes. The fact that they are trying to sell the stuff does not detract from
the clarity of the statement vis-a-vis the shelf life. They are unlikely to
be so clear about it if it was a lie. They would be taken to court sooner
or later if the statement was untrue or misleading.

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:

If in doubt do some with some with out..

Neither you nor I am in a position to do a carefully controlled set of
scientifically valid experiments with sufficiently robust statistics to be
able to come to any real conclusion about it.

I never said we were.

Cuttings root with or without wxternally applied hormones. They hormones
speed up the rooting process and results in a more luxuriant root growrg.

Yes because some of them contain the same substance naturally!-)
The ones that don't or do not have enough at the time we wish to
propagate them may need a little help., You've *never* had a cutting
fail? Tell me how;-))

OK, so I'm nit picking

As others have pointed out, the techniques and mechanics of the rooting
powder (or solution or gel) ingredients are rarely explained..

I don't know what that means.

Do you know "WHY" Rooting powder is meant to increase rooting? Do you
know WHY plants root at all, and why some do not.. That is my point was
my point with the prev comment. Some plants contain naturally occurring
quantities of the same auxins as Rooting powder (often in the correct
amount) This is why rooting powder is sometimes not required and plants
are able to root by themselves with no problems;-)

Either way, whether you use rooting 'aids' is up to you.. Some people I
know make their own rooting compounds from plants that have a naturally
high occurance of the auxins.
//
Jim


auxin
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/e.../m0007030.html
Saturday, August 16, 2003

auxin Plant hormone that regulates stem and root growth in plants. Auxins
influence many aspects of plant growth and development, including cell
enlargement, inhibition of development of axillary buds, tropisms, and the
initiation of roots. Auxin affects cell division mainly at the tip,
because it is here that cell division in a stem or root mainly occurs.
Just behind the tip the cells grow in size under the influence of auxins,
causing the stem or root to grow longer. Auxin therefore affects the
amount of elongation here too. Synthetic auxins are used in rooting
powders for cuttings to encourage cuttings to root. They are also used in
some weedkillers, where high auxin concentrations cause such rapid growth
that the plants die. Other uses include the prevention of premature
fruitdrop in orchards. The most common naturally occurring auxin is known
as indoleacetic acid, or IAA. It is produced in the shoot apex and
transported to other parts of the plant.

Franz Heymann wrote:

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...
There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously
and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9
[...]

That URL is also the one which suggests you should use a rooting
hormone for fuchsia and geranium (I assume = pelargonium) cuttings:
among the very easiest plants to propagate at almost any time of year.
Not my first port of call as a source of objective horticultural
information. Anybody who uses that kind of sales talk is a con-man,
and a gardener of Franz's experience knows it.

Yes. The fact that they are trying to sell the stuff does not detract from
the clarity of the statement vis-a-vis the shelf life. They are unlikely to
be so clear about it if it was a lie. They would be taken to court sooner
or later if the statement was untrue or misleading.

LOL Mebbe but I tend to be wary of large agrochem companies from past
experience!-) They could afford to go to court I think!-)
Its true though. they just have a product to sell!-))
//
Jim

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...
There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously
and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9
[...]

That URL is also the one which suggests you should use a rooting
hormone for fuchsia and geranium (I assume = pelargonium) cuttings:
among the very easiest plants to propagate at almost any time of year.
Not my first port of call as a source of objective horticultural
information. Anybody who uses that kind of sales talk is a con-man,
and a gardener of Franz's experience knows it.

Yes. The fact that they are trying to sell the stuff does not detract from
the clarity of the statement vis-a-vis the shelf life. They are unlikely to
be so clear about it if it was a lie. They would be taken to court sooner
or later if the statement was untrue or misleading.

This is probably right; but I'd still be inclined to replace the stuff
every year, as I couldn't guarantee the proper storage conditions (I
know you've already mentioned this). A more shameless company would, I
suppose on reflection, recommend this.

Mike.

On 17 Aug 2003 01:36:03 -0700, (Mike Lyle)
wrote:

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...
There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously
and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9
[...]

That URL is also the one which suggests you should use a rooting
hormone for fuchsia and geranium (I assume = pelargonium) cuttings:
among the very easiest plants to propagate at almost any time of year.
Not my first port of call as a source of objective horticultural
information. Anybody who uses that kind of sales talk is a con-man,
and a gardener of Franz's experience knows it.

Yes. The fact that they are trying to sell the stuff does not detract from
the clarity of the statement vis-a-vis the shelf life. They are unlikely to
be so clear about it if it was a lie. They would be taken to court sooner
or later if the statement was untrue or misleading.

This is probably right; but I'd still be inclined to replace the stuff
every year, as I couldn't guarantee the proper storage conditions (I
know you've already mentioned this). A more shameless company would, I
suppose on reflection, recommend this.

I have never seen such a recommendation on any product with a
specified shelf life. Isn't it implicit?
Take the contents of our fridge for instance :-)
--
Martin

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
om...
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...
There has been some nonsense spoken in this ng about the putative shelf
life
of rooting hormones.
The following URL sets the record quite straight, quite unambiguously
and
without prevarication:

http://www.pbi.co.uk/faq1.asp?productid=9
[...]

That URL is also the one which suggests you should use a rooting
hormone for fuchsia and geranium (I assume = pelargonium) cuttings:
among the very easiest plants to propagate at almost any time of year.
Not my first port of call as a source of objective horticultural
information. Anybody who uses that kind of sales talk is a con-man,
and a gardener of Franz's experience knows it.

Yes. The fact that they are trying to sell the stuff does not detract from
the clarity of the statement vis-a-vis the shelf life. They are unlikely to
be so clear about it if it was a lie. They would be taken to court sooner
or later if the statement was untrue or misleading.

This is probably right; but I'd still be inclined to replace the stuff
every year, as I couldn't guarantee the proper storage conditions (I
know you've already mentioned this). A more shameless company would, I
suppose on reflection, recommend this.

Mike.