On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:06:14 +0000 (UTC), "PK"
wrote:

Yakman wrote:
I have a small 12' x 12' garden, mostly paving slabs, with a
border all round. I have had a problem with many ants over the
past few years. This year though there seems to be more than
ever, coming from 5 or six sources.

What is the best way to kill the ants or reduce there number.

I have tried Nippon and boiling water, but to no avail.


Armillatox.

I use it neat at entrance holes in paving.

not as an insecticide you understand but just as a way of helping the ants
clean their nest.

pk


It seems that the ants are now protected against compulsory nest
cleaning with Armillotox. Our local ironmonger tells me that the
sale of this has been banned for about a year. Be kind and use your
stock sparingly so that your ants can enjoy clean nests for as many
years as possible.

Peter.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kate Morgan wrote:

Why bother, they do little harm

I disagree. They undermine concrete slabs and cause them to
settle
unevenly, and if their nests are in the roots of a plant, that
plant
can die from lack of moisture in dry weather. And they cause
humps in
the lawn that get scalped by the mower (and it's not set that
low!).

Yes I agree with all of that

And that's serious harm?

For heaven's sake, gardening is about living with nature. If you
don't want to give an inch, you are the sort of person that regards
Monsanto as a "green" company. You can't eliminate ants without
creating a totally artficial ecology.

Ditto aphids and the like?
The truth is that you cannot garden at all without creating a totally
artificial ecology.

Franz

In article ,
"Franz Heymann" writes:
|
| For heaven's sake, gardening is about living with nature. If you
| don't want to give an inch, you are the sort of person that regards
| Monsanto as a "green" company. You can't eliminate ants without
| creating a totally artficial ecology.
|
| Ditto aphids and the like?
| The truth is that you cannot garden at all without creating a totally
| artificial ecology.

No, that is false, on many grounds.

Firstly, ants are far more important to the ecology than aphids,
and local elimination of aphids is a relatively minor disturbance
to it. Even massive reduction over a large scale does not cause
a major disurbance, though the methods used to do so may.

Secondly, ants are FAR harder to kill than aphids, and the only
practical way of eliminating them is to poison your garden so that
it is lethal to many or most insects (perhaps even many or most
invertebrates).

Thirdly, almost all gardening does not create a TOTALLY artificial
ecology, but a slightly perturbed one - a.k.a. "living with nature".
Killing a few particularly annoying ants' nests is compatible with
this, but wholesale slaughter of them is not.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Franz Heymann" writes:
|
| For heaven's sake, gardening is about living with nature. If
you
| don't want to give an inch, you are the sort of person that
regards
| Monsanto as a "green" company. You can't eliminate ants
without
| creating a totally artficial ecology.
|
| Ditto aphids and the like?
| The truth is that you cannot garden at all without creating a
totally
| artificial ecology.

No, that is false, on many grounds.

Firstly, ants are far more important to the ecology than aphids,
and local elimination of aphids is a relatively minor disturbance
to it. Even massive reduction over a large scale does not cause
a major disurbance, though the methods used to do so may.

That is not in any sense contrary to my general statement that
gardening inevitably creates an artificial ecology. (I should have
been more explicit by using the adjective "local" and I exaggerated by
using the word "total".)

Secondly, ants are FAR harder to kill than aphids, and the only
practical way of eliminating them is to poison your garden so that
it is lethal to many or most insects (perhaps even many or most
invertebrates).

That is not my experience in a previous garden which I had, which had
far too large a population for my liking.

Thirdly, almost all gardening does not create a TOTALLY artificial
ecology, but a slightly perturbed one - a.k.a. "living with nature".

I disagree. If you are right, we should not have introduced rampant
foreign weeds like Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and
Rhododendron ponticum into our gardens.

Killing a few particularly annoying ants' nests is compatible with
this, but wholesale slaughter of them is not.

I did not recommend, nor would I contemplate "wholesale slaughter" of
ants. On the other hand, I would be quite prepared to eradicate those
whose use of my garden was in contradiction to my expectations.

Franz

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Kate Morgan wrote:

Why bother, they do little harm


I disagree. They undermine concrete slabs and cause them to settle
unevenly, and if their nests are in the roots of a plant, that plant
can die from lack of moisture in dry weather. And they cause humps in
the lawn that get scalped by the mower (and it's not set that low!).

Yes I agree with all of that


And that's serious harm?

For heaven's sake, gardening is about living with nature. If you
don't want to give an inch, you are the sort of person that regards
Monsanto as a "green" company. You can't eliminate ants without
creating a totally artficial ecology.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Yes I agree with all of that

I did not say it was serious harm did I! I just agreed that that is
what they did.You have no idea what sort of person I am if you did then
you would not make such a remark.


people can only make a decision as to "what sort of person" you are
based upon what you post in the context of the thread you are posting.

In article ,
"Franz Heymann" writes:
|
| Thirdly, almost all gardening does not create a TOTALLY artificial
| ecology, but a slightly perturbed one - a.k.a. "living with nature".
|
| I disagree. If you are right, we should not have introduced rampant
| foreign weeds like Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and
| Rhododendron ponticum into our gardens.

That's right. With hindsight, we shouldn't have done.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I did not say it was serious harm did I! I just agreed that that is
what they did.You have no idea what sort of person I am if you did then
you would not make such a remark.


people can only make a decision as to "what sort of person" you are
based upon what you post in the context of the thread you are posting.

I have been posting on this n.g since 1997 approx so it will be more
than obvious what sort of person I am if any one is in any doubt, all I
did was to agree with Chris re. the damage that ants can do.

"Yakman" wrote in message
...
I have a small 12' x 12' garden, mostly paving slabs, with a border all
round. I have had a problem with many ants over the past few years. This
year though there seems to be more than ever, coming from 5 or six
sources.

What is the best way to kill the ants or reduce there number.

I have tried Nippon and boiling water, but to no avail.

Many thanks.

Here are another couple of viable options:

(1) force them to read all the various ramblings of this thread - deadly but
very slow and incredibly inhumane ;-)

(2) local application of Ant Stop - manufactured by Scotts of Godalming.
This is sold as a long term ant deterrent for indoor use (up to 3 months
deterrence).
Nasty stuff - contains microgranules of an anticholinesterase
organophosphate compound which are supposed to be carried away by ants and
then kill them by contact and ingestion.
Direct spraying also kills.
Usual warnings about fish and bees and food.
So far I have used local applications outside to cracks in the patio where
ants are building nests, and it seems very effective when sprayed around the
holes where they go in and out.
I have not yet used it around my roses, each of which has an ants nest
building a tower up around the stem above the graft. I am reluctant to use
it near growing things.
However this is the year of the ant (as well as the year of the bindweed) so
my 'laissez faire' attitude has given way to high tech. clinical strikes.

In summary, although it is mainly aimed at 'in the home' it does say 'in and
around the home' and has proved surprisingly effective.

HTH
Dave R

On 22 Jul 2004 20:05:39 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Kate Morgan wrote:

Why bother, they do little harm

I disagree. They undermine concrete slabs and cause them to settle
unevenly, and if their nests are in the roots of a plant, that plant
can die from lack of moisture in dry weather. And they cause humps in
the lawn that get scalped by the mower (and it's not set that low!).

Yes I agree with all of that

And that's serious harm?

For heaven's sake, gardening is about living with nature. If you
don't want to give an inch, you are the sort of person that regards
Monsanto as a "green" company. You can't eliminate ants without
creating a totally artficial ecology.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Robert said 'they do little harm', which I read to mean they are
benign. Tripping over a badly settled slab can have quite serious
consequences, although I accept that on the scale of world
catastrophes, the problems ants cause come fairly low on the list.

I quote from your later post: "Killing a few particularly annoying
ants' nests is compatible with this, but wholesale slaughter of them
is not." ('this' being 'living with nature').

Ants have their place, in my garden just as much as anywhere else. But
they can be nuisance, and where they are a nuisance I do what I can to
get rid of them. That doesn't mean my garden is a zoological
wilderness or that I advocate "wholesale slaughter" of ants or
anything else. You really shouldn't have interpreted my (or KM's) post
as if I (or we) had done.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Robert wrote in message
...

"Yakman" wrote in message
...
: I have a small 12' x 12' garden, mostly paving slabs, with a border all
: round. I have had a problem with many ants over the past few years. This
: year though there seems to be more than ever, coming from 5 or six
sources.
:
: What is the best way to kill the ants or reduce there number.
Boric acid mixed with sugar or honey at the rate of 1/2 teaspoon to one
ounce. Another good bait is ground pecans or walnuts mixed with boric acid
at the same rate. Ants do damage, they "raise" aphids both root and leaf.
They will get into fruit.

I have to agree. And if the ants don't farm the aphids, what are the blue tits going to live on?

Nick Maclaren wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Franz Heymann" writes:

| The truth is that you cannot garden at all without
creating a totally
| artificial ecology.

No, that is false, on many grounds.

almost all gardening does not create a TOTALLY artificial
ecology, but a slightly perturbed one - a.k.a. "living
with nature".

Well said, Nick. A major aspect of gardens, apart from
vegetable plots, is to bring nature close to our door. The
more natural looking the garden, the more it gets admired.
Check out the number of visitors to the major show gardens,
though some people seem to prefer formal types. If you don't
like this idea of what a garden does, pave the whole lot and
join another newsgroup :-(

Cheers,

John

In article ,
John Morgan wrote:

Check out the number of visitors to the major show gardens,
though some people seem to prefer formal types. If you don't
like this idea of what a garden does, pave the whole lot and
join another newsgroup :-(

Such as alt.pave.the.earth - well worth a visit, to expand your
mind, if nothing else.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
John Morgan wrote:

Check out the number of visitors to the major show gardens,
though some people seem to prefer formal types. If you don't
like this idea of what a garden does, pave the whole lot and
join another newsgroup :-(

Such as alt.pave.the.earth - well worth a visit, to expand your
mind, if nothing else.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.