Hi all,

As I don't have a car, I've converted my back driveway into what will be
raised veg beds next year, by building walls with some bricks.

This year I've grown veg in pots, using "organic" peat-free compost, and
when the veg are over I'm going to empty the spent compost into the new beds
to form the bottom layer of soil.

I am wondering what to fill up the rest with - I was considering just
getting some topsoil for it. I wonder if anyone could advise me if I should
put a layer of manure in next, before the topsoil? Obviously I want to keep
these relatively shallow (2ft deep) beds as productive as possible for as
long as possible, with minimum maintenance.

Any help much appreciated! Thanks in advance,

Andrew
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:38:11 GMT, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:

Hi all,

As I don't have a car, I've converted my back driveway into what will be
raised veg beds next year, by building walls with some bricks.

This year I've grown veg in pots, using "organic" peat-free compost, and
when the veg are over I'm going to empty the spent compost into the new beds
to form the bottom layer of soil.

I am wondering what to fill up the rest with - I was considering just
getting some topsoil for it. I wonder if anyone could advise me if I should
put a layer of manure in next, before the topsoil? Obviously I want to keep
these relatively shallow (2ft deep) beds as productive as possible for as
long as possible, with minimum maintenance.

Any help much appreciated! Thanks in advance,

What's the base like?
I'm thinking in terms of drainage - if the beds are made up on a
concrete pan then you'll need to make provision for it.
Likewise if the ground is compacted - it'd be worth roughing up down
to a depth of a foot or so first.

I'd be inclined to treat a walled bed much like a giant pot - so if
you placed the spent compost at the very bottom you might end up
clogging the drainage. Some light hardcore might be appropriate?

As regards the soil, I don't see why a mix of topsoil and manure
wouldn't be just fine. To some extent you'll be able to adjust the mix
over time ( more soil, a bit of gravel or sand if necessary ).
I'd emphasize the mix though, rather than layers - save for the top
six inches or so, which ought to be a light soil layer.
This last layer will have to be put on quite some time after the bed
has been infilled - otherwise you might find that, as they say,
'contents are liable to settle'.

As for minimum maintenance, bear in mind that most manure comes packed
with seeds etc...and there's no telling what bought-in topsoil will
contain.
Ideally a top layer of soil-based potting compost would be ideal - but
expensive!

Sounds like a fascinating project though - and if you designed the
walls with some slots in, you could knock up some cloches/fleece
frames to fit - which would help to extend the season.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

g'day andy,

my main medium in the raised beds i do is mushroom compost, i do add
any other organic material i may have around at the time but you could
add animal manures, or any other compost you can get hold of at the
time.

len

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.

What's the base like?
I'm thinking in terms of drainage - if the beds are made up on a
concrete pan then you'll need to make provision for it.
Likewise if the ground is compacted - it'd be worth roughing up down
to a depth of a foot or so first.

The base is concrete, but on a slight slope which will obviously help the
drainage. Also, the walls are 'dry stone walls' with no cement in between
the bricks, which should help the drainage too.


I'd be inclined to treat a walled bed much like a giant pot - so if
you placed the spent compost at the very bottom you might end up
clogging the drainage. Some light hardcore might be appropriate?

I'll have a think - I've got a few broken bricks in there, but not many. The
above factors might make drainage OK. Also, I over-estimated the depth of
the beds in my first post - they are only just over a foot or so deep. So
the 'large pot' scenario is probably the most appropriate here!


Sounds like a fascinating project though - and if you designed the
walls with some slots in, you could knock up some cloches/fleece
frames to fit - which would help to extend the season.

Now there's an idea . . . mini-polytunnels . . . I could plant some spuds in
the autumn after the main veg are over, and have them fresh at Christmas!
And use them in the spring too, to get nice big strong plants early in the
year. Thanks for that one!!!

Andy
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net

my main medium in the raised beds i do is mushroom compost, i do add
any other organic material i may have around at the time but you could
add animal manures, or any other compost you can get hold of at the
time.

I've got some compost composting in my composter currently, so maybe if I
put all the autumn garden waste in it too, with a big dose of compost
accelerator, I can empty it into my new beds in the spring before the top
layer of soil.

Your mention of mushroom compost reminds me - I've got shaggy ink caps
coming up in one of my tyre pots I've got going at the minute. I believe
they're edible . . . hopefully they will persist once I've emptied the
compost into the base of my new beds.

Andy

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:42:37 GMT, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:



What's the base like?
I'm thinking in terms of drainage - if the beds are made up on a
concrete pan then you'll need to make provision for it.
Likewise if the ground is compacted - it'd be worth roughing up down
to a depth of a foot or so first.

The base is concrete, but on a slight slope which will obviously help the
drainage. Also, the walls are 'dry stone walls' with no cement in between
the bricks, which should help the drainage too.

In which case you might suffer from over-drainage!


I'd be inclined to treat a walled bed much like a giant pot - so if
you placed the spent compost at the very bottom you might end up
clogging the drainage. Some light hardcore might be appropriate?

I'll have a think - I've got a few broken bricks in there, but not many. The
above factors might make drainage OK. Also, I over-estimated the depth of
the beds in my first post - they are only just over a foot or so deep. So
the 'large pot' scenario is probably the most appropriate here!

I guess you'll have to play it by ear, but with such a shallow bed you
might find it pays to install a seep hose halfway down the bed, or at
least give some consideration to a semi-automatic watering
system...which could be something as simple as a strategically
punctured hose fitted round the rim of the bed.



Sounds like a fascinating project though - and if you designed the
walls with some slots in, you could knock up some cloches/fleece
frames to fit - which would help to extend the season.

Now there's an idea . . . mini-polytunnels . . . I could plant some spuds in
the autumn after the main veg are over, and have them fresh at Christmas!
And use them in the spring too, to get nice big strong plants early in the
year. Thanks for that one!!!

I'm jealous already!

And if you knock up an enviromesh frame you're never going to have to
worry about a late frost knocking back your seedlings, nor the early
blackfly season.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

The base is concrete, but on a slight slope which will obviously help the
drainage. Also, the walls are 'dry stone walls' with no cement in between
the bricks, which should help the drainage too.

In which case you might suffer from over-drainage!

I s'pose I could always put some cement in the gaps if there's too much
drainage. Have to see how it goes.



I'd be inclined to treat a walled bed much like a giant pot - so if
you placed the spent compost at the very bottom you might end up
clogging the drainage. Some light hardcore might be appropriate?

I'll have a think - I've got a few broken bricks in there, but not many.
The
above factors might make drainage OK. Also, I over-estimated the depth of
the beds in my first post - they are only just over a foot or so deep. So
the 'large pot' scenario is probably the most appropriate here!

I guess you'll have to play it by ear, but with such a shallow bed you
might find it pays to install a seep hose halfway down the bed, or at
least give some consideration to a semi-automatic watering
system...which could be something as simple as a strategically
punctured hose fitted round the rim of the bed.

I have a water-butt, and the company which makes it also make a
trickle-watering hose type system to go with it. I might invest in one of
those for next year.

I have today also coincidentally located a source for topsoil and manure -
I've recently bought a wood-burning stove, and the place I found locally
which supplies logs and kindling (went there today to stock up for the
winter) also do the topsoil and manure. A one-stop shop! I'm planning on
using the ash from the stove for the garden, too.




Sounds like a fascinating project though - and if you designed the
walls with some slots in, you could knock up some cloches/fleece
frames to fit - which would help to extend the season.

Now there's an idea . . . mini-polytunnels . . . I could plant some spuds
in
the autumn after the main veg are over, and have them fresh at Christmas!
And use them in the spring too, to get nice big strong plants early in
the
year. Thanks for that one!!!

I'm jealous already!

And if you knock up an enviromesh frame you're never going to have to
worry about a late frost knocking back your seedlings, nor the early
blackfly season.

Just done a Google search for enviromesh - first time I've heard of it.
Looks like top stuff - I get lots of slugs and snails which hopefully it
would keep off too. Had horrendous problems with them this year, what with
the monsoon weather. Might have to be a beer moat otherwise!

Thanks for all the help Stephen!

Andy
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:44:22 GMT, "Andy Hunt"
wrote:



The base is concrete, but on a slight slope which will obviously help the
drainage. Also, the walls are 'dry stone walls' with no cement in between
the bricks, which should help the drainage too.

In which case you might suffer from over-drainage!

I s'pose I could always put some cement in the gaps if there's too much
drainage. Have to see how it goes.

Sounds like a top idea!
snip

Just done a Google search for enviromesh - first time I've heard of it.
Looks like top stuff - I get lots of slugs and snails which hopefully it
would keep off too. Had horrendous problems with them this year, what with
the monsoon weather. Might have to be a beer moat otherwise!


Fleece can be a bit of a double-edged sword in that unless it's easy
to lift off the crops, any pests trapped underneath it could have a
field day!
With a dry stone wall, the slugs and snails are simply going to find
the holes!
With a bit of judicial "hunt 'n peck" pest control I think you'll not
have too many worries with slugs and snails.

Like the sound of a beer moat though!

Cheers,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article , Andy Hunt
writes

I've recently bought a wood-burning stove, and the place I found locally
which supplies logs and kindling (went there today to stock up for the
winter)

Good grief! You'll be a bit parky during the winter months then Andy!

We have a woodburning stove in the lounge and we have a delivery of logs
every 5 weeks or so. We also burn logs and other bits of wood from the
garden and we know a carpenter who give us all his offcuts to save going
down the dump.
This JUST keeps us ticking over though if it gets really cold we have to
go and get some coal!

(Mind you the carpenter can be too helpful at times, I've had half a
garage door and lintel on my driveway, to cut up and also two large
rotten five bar gates


--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

I've recently bought a wood-burning stove, and the place I found locally
which supplies logs and kindling (went there today to stock up for the
winter)

Good grief! You'll be a bit parky during the winter months then Andy!

We have a woodburning stove in the lounge and we have a delivery of logs
every 5 weeks or so. We also burn logs and other bits of wood from the
garden and we know a carpenter who give us all his offcuts to save going
down the dump.
This JUST keeps us ticking over though if it gets really cold we have to
go and get some coal!

:-) I actually just bought a couple of £2 bags - I'm having the stove
installed the week after next, and need some just to fire it up to make sure
it's working OK. I'm going to get a bunker out the back for the bulk
deliveries!

The stove I've bought is a Morso "Dove Cleanheat 1630", which I've just
today discovered is oversized for my terraced cottage. The bloke who's
installing it has suggested that I put an extra radiator in my loft to get
rid of some of the heat! What I'll probably do is line the firebox with
bricks to make it smaller. But hopefully I won't be cold this winter!

Thanks for the concern, though!

Take care,

Andy
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net

In article , Andy Hunt
writes


The stove I've bought is a Morso "Dove Cleanheat 1630", which I've just
today discovered is oversized for my terraced cottage. The bloke who's
installing it has suggested that I put an extra radiator in my loft to get
rid of some of the heat! What I'll probably do is line the firebox with
bricks to make it smaller. But hopefully I won't be cold this winter!

Thanks for the concern, though!

Take care,

Andy
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net






We've got a Hunter stove, it can take 15 inch lengths of timber and burn
coal as well. Very dry wood, I.e... Carpenters offcuts makes us go from
the sublime to the blinking hot and we have to open the patio doors to
let the the out as it burns hot and very fast

Use cola every now and then because coal burns hotter and gets rid of a
lot of tar etc on the glass doors. I was told this by the chimney sweep.
We have the chimney swept at least once a year as we don't let the fire
out, (it ticks over overnight and we burn stuff which might not be
absolutely pristine firewood. E.g. five bar gates and so on. Goodness
only knows what the Barracloughs burn given their propensity for
discovering stuff in skips )

Could never be without the stove, it's wonderful and soothes the fire
bug in me as you can keep adjusting it or put rubbish on it. It's alive
and a boring regular never changing gas or electric thing would never
suffice!
The dogs usually take most of the worst heat away if too hot as you have
to climb over them sometimes to get to the doors

Can make the rooms more dirty though, you find more dust on the top of
picture rails and curtain tracks if you ever feel obliged to look .

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

We've got a Hunter stove, it can take 15 inch lengths of timber and burn
coal as well. Very dry wood, I.e... Carpenters offcuts makes us go from
the sublime to the blinking hot and we have to open the patio doors to
let the the out as it burns hot and very fast

I got the Hunter catalogue when I was looking at stoves - I really liked the
design of them, but unfortunately I'm in a smokeless zone here, and Hunter
don't make any 'clean burning' models for smokeless zones. The Dove is a
nice looker, though - simple but good-looking. It has an image of a dove on
a branch cast into each side of the stove (it's a nice solid cast iron - I
think the Hunters are the same, aren't they).

There's a place up the road from me selling these split logs at £2/bag, but
I have a mate who's a builder, who quite often ends up with loads of spare
wood at the end of a job. He says that from now on I'm welcome to take it,
instead of his simply skipping it. Tomorrow I'm going down to one of his
jobs where he's taken out a load of big old solid beams from a house - loads
of them. I'll be taking my chain saw and making little oblong logs out of
them.

Getting a bunker made tomorrow too for my back garden/yard, so hopefully by
the end of the day I'll end up with a bunker full of free firewood - a good
start to the winter! Spent £60 on a chain saw though, but I won't need to
spend that again, of course.


Use cola every now and then because coal burns hotter and gets rid of a
lot of tar etc on the glass doors.

The Dove has quite a cunning design, in that the controllable air inlets for
the fire are at the top of the front of the stove, so air is sucked in at
the top and travels down the inside of the glass before feeding the fire
from beneath. This means that there is a constant stream of air 'washing'
the glass and keeping it clean. And all without electrical power!


Could never be without the stove, it's wonderful and soothes the fire
bug in me as you can keep adjusting it or put rubbish on it. It's alive
and a boring regular never changing gas or electric thing would never
suffice!

I'm going to have the stove running my radiators and hot water cylinder, and
a big reason for getting it is to do with my job - I work as an energy
officer for my local council, and I'm currently promoting home renewable
energy systems - which basically means 'biomass' heating (i.e. log stoves
and boilers) for the winter, and rooftop solar thermal collectors to heat
water in the summer - which remove the need to use any kind of boiler for
half the year. But I must confess that I just really like the idea of having
a real fire heating my home - there's nothing quite like it. And if all else
fails, I could even cook on it too. Wood fuel - the original, and still the
best . . . !

I was chatting to the marketing manager of Morso about doing a promotion,
and it turned out he has the same stove as me. He assured me that I would
soon 'develop a relationship' with my stove! I can certainly see it
happening!


Can make the rooms more dirty though, you find more dust on the top of
picture rails and curtain tracks if you ever feel obliged to look .

My house is still recovering from having a new fireplace built. Dust from
that particular job still turns up in all sorts of unexpected places. I
think that the extra few particles will be a small price to pay for a cheap,
green, warm and homely heating system in my front room :-)

Andy
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net

In article , Andy Hunt
writes
Getting a bunker made tomorrow too for my back garden/yard, so hopefully by
the end of the day I'll end up with a bunker full of free firewood - a good
start to the winter! Spent £60 on a chain saw though, but I won't need to
spend that again, of course.


I would have thought that logs would take up a lot more room than coal,
you'd have to have a pretty big bunker to keep sufficient wood to last
you for a few weeks.

Perhaps just a tarpaulin over the wood would be better?


I'm going to have the stove running my radiators and hot water cylinder,


That does take a lot of the heat away from the radiated amount into the
room.


I
think that the extra few particles will be a small price to pay for a cheap,
green, warm and homely heating system in my front room :-)


Couldn't agree more!

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Janet
Baraclough.. writes

Also take care with burning joiners offcuts or demolition scavenges.
Sometimes old reclaimed wood has been treated for worm or rot with toxic
chemicals whose smoke I wouldn't want to breathe, some of it has been
kilndried, and some of it is coniferous softwood. Kilndried offcuts burn
so hot and fast it's hard to keep a pleasant steady heat in the room.
Softwoods tend to tar the chimney, which can be a fire hazard.

Janet.


Good advice Janet, we've found it true in both cases
Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

I would have thought that logs would take up a lot more room than coal,
you'd have to have a pretty big bunker to keep sufficient wood to last
you for a few weeks.

Perhaps just a tarpaulin over the wood would be better?

I'm limited in the room I have to store logs, I'm only in an end-terrace
here in Bury, Lancs. Most of my back garden is taken up with plants and
furniture. I just had a spare space under my window, so I've filled it with
a 4'x3'x2' bunker. The wood I cut yesterday (aching all over now! Chainsaw
very good though) has just filled it nicely to the brim. I will have to see
how long it lasts me, it may be that I can make it last a while heating my
modest 2-up 2-down. It's the first time I've tried this, so this winter will
be a learning curve! Next year I'm hoping to stock up the bunker during the
summer, and season some logs from the council wood tip if I can.

I know that coal is much more energy dense, but I'm trying to be 'green' and
'carbon neutral' to see how the practicalities turn out . . . besides, I
think it's going to be fun scavenging for wood - it would be good to see if
I can get free fuel to last me the winter. I've already been promised the
spare wood from a second big building job in a few weeks.



I'm going to have the stove running my radiators and hot water cylinder,


That does take a lot of the heat away from the radiated amount into the
room.

With the size of the stove I've bought, I think that might be a good thing!
I'm after a room heater, not a sauna!

I will let you know how it turns out - having it installed next weekend.
Could be an interesting experience!

Andy