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greenhouse condensation



 
 
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  #1  
Old 09-12-2004, 03:31 PM
Amber Ormerod
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Default greenhouse condensation

Is there anything I can do to reduce condensation over the Winter? I am
presuming next year I should get a high level vent fan sorted out. I have
part of the greenhouse heated for the cacti and the auto vents are just shut
all the time - I have tried to adjuust them without any luck. I do keep the
doors and vents open for as long as I can in the day but its still so damp
in there ;-(

Thanks in advance
amber

email happy at dryad dot org


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  #2  
Old 09-12-2004, 10:04 PM
Kay
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In article , Amber Ormerod
writes
Is there anything I can do to reduce condensation over the Winter? I am
presuming next year I should get a high level vent fan sorted out. I have
part of the greenhouse heated for the cacti and the auto vents are just shut
all the time - I have tried to adjuust them without any luck. I do keep the
doors and vents open for as long as I can in the day but its still so damp
in there ;-(

The cacti part should be pretty dry. Do you have it physically separated
from the rest of the greenhouse?

How big is your greenhouse? Small, crowded greenhouses are likely to
have more problems.

Mine is fairly large, with a mixture of cacti and other things. I dry
off the cacti from late September, and water the rest only as needed,
and have no condensation problems or problems with things rotting off.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

  #3  
Old 10-12-2004, 12:38 AM
Dave Barker
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Default

I find that liberally coating the insides of the windows
(side not top) with beeswax can have a marked effect
reducing condensation.
Alternatively, a handfull of gallium crystals in a pail of
distilled water is often recommended, can't say I've tried
that method though!

Good luck

Dave


  #4  
Old 10-12-2004, 08:21 AM
Martin Brown
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Default

Amber Ormerod wrote:

Is there anything I can do to reduce condensation over the Winter? I am
presuming next year I should get a high level vent fan sorted out. I have
part of the greenhouse heated for the cacti and the auto vents are just shut
all the time - I have tried to adjuust them without any luck. I do keep the
doors and vents open for as long as I can in the day but its still so damp
in there ;-(


What sort of heating are you using? I only ever had condensation
problems with paraffin heaters. Electric fan heaters keep things dry.

Ideally what you need are a few nice sunny days where you can let the
house heat up a bit and then open the top vents to let the moist air
out. Warm air holds a lot more water so it is better to allow the
greenhouse to heat up a bit in the morning sunshine and then open the
vents to make it dry out faster.

Regards,
Martin Brown
  #5  
Old 10-12-2004, 07:32 PM
Chris Hogg
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Default

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:38:42 -0000, "Dave Barker"
wrote:

I find that liberally coating the insides of the windows
(side not top) with beeswax can have a marked effect
reducing condensation.
Alternatively, a handfull of gallium crystals in a pail of
distilled water is often recommended, can't say I've tried
that method though!

Good luck

Dave

Whatever you're referring to, gallium isn't it (it's a rare and
expensive metal, melts in your hand but boils at 2400C). I can't
imagine a handful of any crystals in a bucket of water being
effective. A saturated solution of say calcium chloride in water will
lower the relative humidity to around 35%, but I wouldn't recommend it
for greenhouse control.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
  #6  
Old 10-12-2004, 07:32 PM
Chris Hogg
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Default

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:31:43 -0000, "Amber Ormerod"
wrote:

Is there anything I can do to reduce condensation over the Winter? I am
presuming next year I should get a high level vent fan sorted out. I have
part of the greenhouse heated for the cacti and the auto vents are just shut
all the time - I have tried to adjuust them without any luck. I do keep the
doors and vents open for as long as I can in the day but its still so damp
in there ;-(

Thanks in advance
amber

email happy at dryad dot org

What form of heating do you use? If it's a paraffin heater, remember
that, as a rule of thumb, every gallon of paraffin you burn puts a
gallon of water into the atmosphere, much of which will condense on
cold surfaces. If you can't adjust the auto vents, try propping them
open a little with a block of wood.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
  #7  
Old 12-12-2004, 06:58 AM
Amber Ormerod
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Posts: n/a
Default



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:31:43 -0000, "Amber Ormerod"
wrote:

Is there anything I can do to reduce condensation over the Winter? I am
presuming next year I should get a high level vent fan sorted out. I have
part of the greenhouse heated for the cacti and the auto vents are just

shut
all the time - I have tried to adjuust them without any luck. I do keep

the
doors and vents open for as long as I can in the day but its still so

damp
in there ;-(

Thanks in advance
amber

email happy at dryad dot org

What form of heating do you use? If it's a paraffin heater, remember
that, as a rule of thumb, every gallon of paraffin you burn puts a
gallon of water into the atmosphere, much of which will condense on
cold surfaces. If you can't adjust the auto vents, try propping them
open a little with a block of wood.


I have a 10x10foot greenhouse aprox 1/4 is bubble wrapped for the cacti and
has a electric fan heater. The rest of the greenhouse is not heated. I have
a vent oposite the door and auto vents in the roof which are not opening at
all atm. The days here (Hampshire) have been very damp for at least 1/2 the
week. I leave the door open for ventilation but thats frequently doing
nothing as its damp outside too. I have had a few days warm enough to dry it
all out, but on a whole I have things like wooden plant stakes going mouldy
already! I have some of the anti damp crystals in the cacti section, but
there is not really a problem in there. I wasn't sure if the crystals woudl
work out too expensive or do nothing in that space?



  #8  
Old 12-12-2004, 10:56 AM
Chris Hogg
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Default

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 06:58:25 -0000, "Amber Ormerod"
wrote:



I have a 10x10foot greenhouse aprox 1/4 is bubble wrapped for the cacti and
has a electric fan heater. The rest of the greenhouse is not heated. I have
a vent oposite the door and auto vents in the roof which are not opening at
all atm. The days here (Hampshire) have been very damp for at least 1/2 the
week. I leave the door open for ventilation but thats frequently doing
nothing as its damp outside too. I have had a few days warm enough to dry it
all out, but on a whole I have things like wooden plant stakes going mouldy
already! I have some of the anti damp crystals in the cacti section, but
there is not really a problem in there. I wasn't sure if the crystals woudl
work out too expensive or do nothing in that space?


I have little faith in these anti-damp crystals. IME there are two
types: silica gel, often found in small packets in boxes of
photographic equipment, and what I think is anhydrous calcium chloride
that slowly absorbs water and becomes a syrupy liquid (in fact it's a
strong solution of calcium chloride in the water it has absorbed).
Although both are fine for desiccating small enclosed spaces of a few
litres, they have limited capacity and rapidly become exhausted
especially out in the open such as they would be in a greenhouse. Most
silica gel has a few 'indicator' grains in it, which are bright blue
while it's still active, but which turn pink when it's exhausted. It
can be re-activated in a hot oven, but you'd need to do that at least
daily I would think, and have a large amount of gel well distributed
around the greenhouse and keep it closed up - forget it!. You'd be
better off with a proper electric dehumidifier, but that would be a
trifle absurd (although not as absurd as using anti-damp crystals IMO
:-) )

Mould doesn't flourish in moving air. Can you run your electric heater
on a 'fan only' setting? If so, keep it running all the time to
generate some air movement. Floor-level vents are also a help, but
many greenhouses don't have them. You mention a vent opposite the
door. Is this in the part separated off with bubble-wrap, and if so,
does it mean that through-ventilation is restricted?

Many plants will cope with the minimum of water over winter. The less
you water them, the less damp is the greenhouse. Provided your cacti
are bone dry at the roots (I don't water mine between the end of
October and the beginning April) they will take some cold. It can get
quite frosty in desert areas at night, but it's a dry cold. Do your
cacti really need the bubble wrap, if it's inhibiting air circulation?
IME a closed greenhouse will give a 2 or 3 degree advantage over the
outside temperature on a cold night, and I wouldn't have thought you'd
get many frosts in Hampshire so low as to be a real problem. On those
few occasions, run the heater, and because those occasions are few,
the cost won't be excessive.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
  #9  
Old 12-12-2004, 03:52 PM
Franz Heymann
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Amber Ormerod" wrote in message
...


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:31:43 -0000, "Amber Ormerod"


wrote:

Is there anything I can do to reduce condensation over the

Winter? I am
presuming next year I should get a high level vent fan sorted

out. I have
part of the greenhouse heated for the cacti and the auto vents

are just
shut
all the time - I have tried to adjuust them without any luck. I

do keep
the
doors and vents open for as long as I can in the day but its

still so
damp
in there ;-(

Thanks in advance
amber

email happy at dryad dot org

What form of heating do you use? If it's a paraffin heater,

remember
that, as a rule of thumb, every gallon of paraffin you burn puts a
gallon of water into the atmosphere, much of which will condense

on
cold surfaces. If you can't adjust the auto vents, try propping

them
open a little with a block of wood.


I have a 10x10foot greenhouse aprox 1/4 is bubble wrapped for the

cacti and
has a electric fan heater. The rest of the greenhouse is not heated.

I have
a vent oposite the door and auto vents in the roof which are not

opening at
all atm. The days here (Hampshire) have been very damp for at least

1/2 the
week. I leave the door open for ventilation but thats frequently

doing
nothing as its damp outside too. I have had a few days warm enough

to dry it
all out, but on a whole I have things like wooden plant stakes going

mouldy
already! I have some of the anti damp crystals in the cacti section,

but
there is not really a problem in there. I wasn't sure if the

crystals woudl
work out too expensive or do nothing in that space?


As a rough and ready figure, any of these water-absorbing materials
would cope with only about their own weight of water vapour, after
which they have to be rejuvenated in the oven. In other words, they
are quite unsuitable for dealing with the amount of damp you are
likely to find in your greenhouse.

I think there is no substitute for ventilation on every sunny day, and
just suffering it for the rest of the time.

Franz


  #10  
Old 13-12-2004, 03:24 PM
Amber Ormerod
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

Mould doesn't flourish in moving air. Can you run your electric heater
on a 'fan only' setting? If so, keep it running all the time to
generate some air movement. Floor-level vents are also a help, but
many greenhouses don't have them. You mention a vent opposite the
door. Is this in the part separated off with bubble-wrap, and if so,
does it mean that through-ventilation is restricted?

Many plants will cope with the minimum of water over winter. The less
you water them, the less damp is the greenhouse. Provided your cacti
are bone dry at the roots (I don't water mine between the end of
October and the beginning April) they will take some cold. It can get
quite frosty in desert areas at night, but it's a dry cold. Do your
cacti really need the bubble wrap, if it's inhibiting air circulation?
IME a closed greenhouse will give a 2 or 3 degree advantage over the
outside temperature on a cold night, and I wouldn't have thought you'd
get many frosts in Hampshire so low as to be a real problem. On those
few occasions, run the heater, and because those occasions are few,
the cost won't be excessive.



The buble wrapped area does not cover over the vents that are oposite the
door. I open them and the door when its dry enough to do anything, but as
its seems to drop a few degrees just as it goes dark its hard to know if its
worth that extra bit of time to stop water gathering or not let that cold
in.

I am trying to sort out moving all I can out of the greenhouse and into a
covered area outside, which will also allow me to clean the greenhouse and
have covered areas to work in potting up over winter. I have things in the
greenhouse atm cos I found damp was a big killer for me over winter that
sitting wet day after day - mist again here today seems the norm!

It is my first year with the cacti and so I am just going by the books with
a dry setup and min temp of about 5degrees. I am not sure what will make it
through the winter but I have no places in the house for them (plus too many
now) so we will have to see. I have a couple that I am already a little
nervous of, but we will see. I have a max min thermometer setup, but its
hard to tell when the heaters kicked in, I just know when I didn't have it
last week the mins were lower.


  #11  
Old 17-12-2004, 02:31 AM
gary
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 12/13/04 7:24 AM, in article , "Amber
Ormerod" wrote:



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

Mould doesn't flourish in moving air. Can you run your electric heater
on a 'fan only' setting? If so, keep it running all the time to
generate some air movement. Floor-level vents are also a help, but
many greenhouses don't have them. You mention a vent opposite the
door. Is this in the part separated off with bubble-wrap, and if so,
does it mean that through-ventilation is restricted?

Many plants will cope with the minimum of water over winter. The less
you water them, the less damp is the greenhouse. Provided your cacti
are bone dry at the roots (I don't water mine between the end of
October and the beginning April) they will take some cold. It can get
quite frosty in desert areas at night, but it's a dry cold. Do your
cacti really need the bubble wrap, if it's inhibiting air circulation?
IME a closed greenhouse will give a 2 or 3 degree advantage over the
outside temperature on a cold night, and I wouldn't have thought you'd
get many frosts in Hampshire so low as to be a real problem. On those
few occasions, run the heater, and because those occasions are few,
the cost won't be excessive.



The buble wrapped area does not cover over the vents that are oposite the
door. I open them and the door when its dry enough to do anything, but as
its seems to drop a few degrees just as it goes dark its hard to know if its
worth that extra bit of time to stop water gathering or not let that cold
in.

I am trying to sort out moving all I can out of the greenhouse and into a
covered area outside, which will also allow me to clean the greenhouse and
have covered areas to work in potting up over winter. I have things in the
greenhouse atm cos I found damp was a big killer for me over winter that
sitting wet day after day - mist again here today seems the norm!

It is my first year with the cacti and so I am just going by the books with
a dry setup and min temp of about 5degrees. I am not sure what will make it
through the winter but I have no places in the house for them (plus too many
now) so we will have to see. I have a couple that I am already a little
nervous of, but we will see. I have a max min thermometer setup, but its
hard to tell when the heaters kicked in, I just know when I didn't have it
last week the mins were lower.


My neighbour has a greenhouse with a shed on the North side. In the shed is
a wood burning stove. A window connects the shed to the greenhouse. He is
big into cacti. Don't know if he has a moisture problem but a wood burning
stove is a dry heat. It does seem to work for him.
Gary
Fort Langley, BC
Canada


  #12  
Old 17-12-2004, 11:05 AM
Amber Ormerod
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Default


"gary" wrote in message
...
My neighbour has a greenhouse with a shed on the North side. In the shed

is
a wood burning stove. A window connects the shed to the greenhouse. He is
big into cacti. Don't know if he has a moisture problem but a wood burning
stove is a dry heat. It does seem to work for him.



Doesn't the shed set on fire? Plus for some of us adding a shed isn't an
option, is it very controlable? This seems like a bit of an extreme
solution.


 




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