I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?

--
Euan

"emuir" wrote in message
...
I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?


Nitrogen. As it rots, so the more seasoned it is probably the quicker it
would draw nutrients.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)

"emuir" wrote in message ...
I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?

Sawdust has a carbon to nitrogen ratio of about 400-1 and it will tie
up nitrogen if mixed into the soil.
It makes a good mulch for blueberries when laid on the soil surface.
It makes a soft place to land when mixed with sand under
playsets/swingsets.
It ties up enough nitrogen to make a pile of grass clippings rot
without stinking.

In article , Tumbleweed fromnews@myso
ckstumbleweed.freeserve.co.uk writes

Nitrogen. As it rots, so the more seasoned it is probably the quicker it
would draw nutrients.

It is true to say that sawdust, wood-chippings etc. use up nitrogen as
they bio-degrade. That amount is self-supplied energy used to create
heat in the material as it breaks down. I sometimes wonder though
whether any nitrogen is actually drawn from the soil, or is locked up by
the process. Much the same argument was used by farmers who preferred
to burn straw from their cereal harvests rather than turn it in. IIRC
there was some research into the effects and no leaching of nitrogen
from the soil was able to be detected. These days straw is more likely
to be baled for a variety of uses, but some of it is turned back into
the soil with good effect.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article ,
Beecrofter wrote:
"emuir" wrote in message ...
I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?

Sawdust has a carbon to nitrogen ratio of about 400-1 and it will tie
up nitrogen if mixed into the soil.
It makes a good mulch for blueberries when laid on the soil surface.
It makes a soft place to land when mixed with sand under
playsets/swingsets.
It ties up enough nitrogen to make a pile of grass clippings rot
without stinking.

Er, no. I don't know where all the pseudo-science about "greens",
"browns", "carbon", "nitrogen" and all that came from, but it really
doesn't describe what is going on. Your description of how to use it
is fine - it is the explanation that isn't.

Grass is not a high-nitrogen material, and the reason that grass
clippings make a slimy, smelly mess is because they compact into
a wet, ANAEROBIC lump. Longer, more mature grass does not do that
on a small scale. Sawdust is less compressible, less decomposable
and prevents the smell by maintaining aeration.

SOME nitrogen is used by the fungi (not usually bacteria) in breaking
down wood, as in sawdust, hedge clippings and so on, but it is all
returned as the fungi themselves are broken down by bacteria. This
is one cause of the deep green patch just inside the yellowish strip
in a fairy ring.

The only common high nitrogen materials in compost come from kitchen
waste, dead animals and when you throw out a pack of MATURE dried
peas, beans etc. Almost everything else is fairly low. And nothing
less than putting large lumps of meat or dead animals on the heap is
likely to change the decomposition to being one dominated by the
protein-reducing organisms - the odd pound or couple of dead rats is
neither here nor there.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

The only common high nitrogen materials in compost come from kitchen
waste, dead animals and when you throw out a pack of MATURE dried
peas, beans etc. Almost everything else is fairly low. And nothing
less than putting large lumps of meat or dead animals on the heap is
likely to change the decomposition to being one dominated by the
protein-reducing organisms -

you lost me he What are the protein-reducing organisms? Otherwise, very
interesting!

Peter


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/2002

emuir wrote:

I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?

--
Euan




Why not COMPOST it and then add it to the soil with a little lime?

Kevin

Thank you so much for all of your responses.

I'm not going to add the sawdust directly to my soil. I don't have a
standard compost heap but I will soak some of the sawdust and add it to my
worm farm. If that is successful I'll keep the remainder for bedding
material for future wormerys beside soft fruit bushes. I'm starting a new
garden on a new plot, I think the developers left with the top soil, so I'm
in a hurry to get things started.


"it's me" wrote in message
...
emuir wrote:

I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of
drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has
anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?

--
Euan




Why not COMPOST it and then add it to the soil with a little lime?

Kevin

it's me wrote in message ...
emuir wrote:

I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?


I know that I'd never think twice about adding sawdust to my compost
heap. It's just a case of getting a balance - easy enough if you have
a lawn, or a weedy flowerbed, or even a large pond ... if not, maybe
think about growing a composting plant (comfrey or a traditional
'green manure' such as mustard) to put with it.


Why not COMPOST it and then add it to the soil with a little lime?

Kevin

I thought you were not supposed to add lime and fertiliser the same
season/year because of a reaction between the two. Maybe that only
applies to manure.

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Beecrofter wrote:
"emuir" wrote in message ...
I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?

Sawdust has a carbon to nitrogen ratio of about 400-1 and it will tie
up nitrogen if mixed into the soil.
It makes a good mulch for blueberries when laid on the soil surface.
It makes a soft place to land when mixed with sand under
playsets/swingsets.
It ties up enough nitrogen to make a pile of grass clippings rot
without stinking.

Er, no. I don't know where all the pseudo-science about "greens",
"browns", "carbon", "nitrogen" and all that came from, but it really
doesn't describe what is going on. Your description of how to use it
is fine - it is the explanation that isn't.

Grass is not a high-nitrogen material, and the reason that grass
clippings make a slimy, smelly mess is because they compact into
a wet, ANAEROBIC lump. Longer, more mature grass does not do that
on a small scale. Sawdust is less compressible, less decomposable
and prevents the smell by maintaining aeration.

SOME nitrogen is used by the fungi (not usually bacteria) in breaking
down wood, as in sawdust, hedge clippings and so on, but it is all
returned as the fungi themselves are broken down by bacteria. This
is one cause of the deep green patch just inside the yellowish strip
in a fairy ring.

The only common high nitrogen materials in compost come from kitchen
waste, dead animals and when you throw out a pack of MATURE dried
peas, beans etc. Almost everything else is fairly low. And nothing
less than putting large lumps of meat or dead animals on the heap is
likely to change the decomposition to being one dominated by the
protein-reducing organisms - the odd pound or couple of dead rats is
neither here nor there.

This is an interesting thought but I don't get it. Do we agree "high
in nitrogen" ought to mean having an amount which is going to be
useful for growing?? In that case, how can grass, young plants etc not
be high in nitrogen? I mean, how can you need it to make some but not
get it if you break some?

Warwick Dumas

"If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway."
- the late Joe Strummer

Er, no. I don't know where all the pseudo-science about "greens",
"browns", "carbon", "nitrogen" and all that came from, but it really
doesn't describe what is going on. Your description of how to use it
is fine - it is the explanation that isn't.

Grass is not a high-nitrogen material, and the reason that grass
clippings make a slimy, smelly mess is because they compact into
a wet, ANAEROBIC lump. Longer, more mature grass does not do that
on a small scale. Sawdust is less compressible, less decomposable
and prevents the smell by maintaining aeration.

Bullshit
Fresh grass clippings here run a carbon to nitrogen ratio of from
about 9:1 up to 20:1
probably because most folks with lawns just pile on fertilizers
without ever doing a soil test.
An efficient fast and hot compost is blended to have a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of 30:1
Sawdust and clippings will still compost hot at twice this (60:1)
because they are finely divided and have much surface area.

This ain't rocket science, I defy anyone to pile damp organic
materials outdoors and have it not rot. What differs is how hot you
want the pile to get and how fast.

it's me wrote in message ...
emuir wrote:

I'm told that putting green woodchips onto soil has the effect of drawing
out nutrients from the soil as they rot down. Does anybody know if they
same happens if sawdust from seasoned wood is added to soil. Has anybody
tried this to build up moisture retention in dry areas?

--
Euan




Why not COMPOST it and then add it to the soil with a little lime?

Kevin

Why would you add lime ? Do you need to correct the pH?

(Beecrofter) wrote in message . com...

Er, no. I don't know where all the pseudo-science about "greens",
"browns", "carbon", "nitrogen" and all that came from, but it really
doesn't describe what is going on. Your description of how to use it
is fine - it is the explanation that isn't.

Grass is not a high-nitrogen material, and the reason that grass
clippings make a slimy, smelly mess is because they compact into
a wet, ANAEROBIC lump. Longer, more mature grass does not do that
on a small scale. Sawdust is less compressible, less decomposable
and prevents the smell by maintaining aeration.

Bullshit
Fresh grass clippings here run a carbon to nitrogen ratio of from
about 9:1 up to 20:1
probably because most folks with lawns just pile on fertilizers
without ever doing a soil test.
An efficient fast and hot compost is blended to have a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of 30:1
Sawdust and clippings will still compost hot at twice this (60:1)
because they are finely divided and have much surface area.

This ain't rocket science, I defy anyone to pile damp organic
materials outdoors and have it not rot. What differs is how hot you
want the pile to get and how fast.

OK, explain it to a novice (me). I'm talking sawdust, grass clippings,
and non-animal scraps in a compost pile. You're talking carbon to
nitrogen ratios. Am I to assume that everything going into the pile
is carbon and I need something (?) containing nitrogen to add to it?
This is a problem I have had for years now - I can't get the compost
pile to produce enough heat for fast breakdown. (It does stay moist).
Out of frustration I even tried adding ammonium nitrate with very
little change. How do you measure carbon/nitrogen going into a compost
pile to get a ratio?
-Tiger

"tiger x" wrote in message
om...
(Beecrofter) wrote in message
. com...

Er, no. I don't know where all the pseudo-science about "greens",
"browns", "carbon", "nitrogen" and all that came from, but it really
doesn't describe what is going on. Your description of how to use it
is fine - it is the explanation that isn't.

Grass is not a high-nitrogen material, and the reason that grass
clippings make a slimy, smelly mess is because they compact into
a wet, ANAEROBIC lump. Longer, more mature grass does not do that
on a small scale. Sawdust is less compressible, less decomposable
and prevents the smell by maintaining aeration.

Bullshit
Fresh grass clippings here run a carbon to nitrogen ratio of from
about 9:1 up to 20:1
probably because most folks with lawns just pile on fertilizers
without ever doing a soil test.
An efficient fast and hot compost is blended to have a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of 30:1
Sawdust and clippings will still compost hot at twice this (60:1)
because they are finely divided and have much surface area.

This ain't rocket science, I defy anyone to pile damp organic
materials outdoors and have it not rot. What differs is how hot you
want the pile to get and how fast.

OK, explain it to a novice (me). I'm talking sawdust, grass clippings,
and non-animal scraps in a compost pile. You're talking carbon to
nitrogen ratios. Am I to assume that everything going into the pile
is carbon and I need something (?) containing nitrogen to add to it?
This is a problem I have had for years now - I can't get the compost
pile to produce enough heat for fast breakdown. (It does stay moist).
Out of frustration I even tried adding ammonium nitrate with very
little change. How do you measure carbon/nitrogen going into a compost
pile to get a ratio?
-Tiger

I usually have the same problem. This fall I bought two 5 lb. bags of
rabbit food for $5US, soaked overnight and incorporated them into the pile.
It's 10' x 6' x 4' and it's steaming hot. The rabbit food is supposedly
mostly alfalfa and seems to be working great.
Another thing I did was to put a plastic kids' pool inverted over the top
to capture and return moisture. It's like a steam bath under there.
I don't worry about ratios of ingredients because it's seasonally
impossible.

In article , emuir
writes
Thank you so much for all of your responses.

I'm not going to add the sawdust directly to my soil. I don't have a
standard compost heap but I will soak some of the sawdust and add it to my
worm farm.

Be careful, then.
A lot of timber these days is treated for fungus and wood worm.
I hope that the sawdust doesn't have a detrimental effect on your worms

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com