"Chris Hogg" wrote

Jeff Layman wrote:

Bob Hobden wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote ...

, Bob Hobden wrote:
I understand the National Trust is to try to bring back a significant
number
of it's walled gardens into production. My problem is that I've heard
they
intend to remake the old greenhouses as they were, all manual and in
wood,
instead of using modern materials and automation and things like
double
glazing for the orchid houses. Personally I think that is crazy as the
old
Head Gardeners would never have countenanced such a retrograde step.
What do others think?

Well, if there weren't any Grade 1 or 2 listing, you could make an
argument
for double glazing and LED lighting in any NT property. But they
wouldn't
look right, and I guess the NT are using a similar argument for
greenhouses.

And would I want to visit such modern greenhouses to see how they were
being used to grow things? I very much doubt it.

I understand about the houses but the gardens are for growing produce
and
that is their only purpose, so I see nothing wrong and everything right
in
them using the most modern techniques and equipment to achieve that. The
Head Gardener, if he was still around, would embrace any modern
improvement.
A super modern large greenhouse would be much more interesting than an
old
plain museum piece, there are hundreds of those already. It's all about
the
plants.

I am afraid that I disagree. You can't disentangle the houses and
gardens - they are inextricably linked. The gardens are for growing
produce, but not in a modern way. If you look at the "About us" at the
bottom of the NT webpages, the first thing it states is "We're a UK
conservation charity...". Note *conservation* - not modernisation. If
you want modernisation, you go to the RHS gardens, and perhaps some
other gardens open to the public. Where do you stop the "improvements"?
Are you going to get rid of all the heritage fruit and veg because it
doesn't crop as well or has poor disease resistance?

The NT has always had a problem with conservation of old buildings - how
far back does it go? What do you do with Georgian, Regency, or Victorian
changes to Tudor buildings, for example? Well, whatever is decided, it
won't include new central heating and solar panels on the roofs! Would
you put solar panels in the walled gardens to help heat the greenhouses?

I tend to agree. At Heligan for example (not NT, I know, but the
argument is the same) they've rebuilt the glasshouses using
traditional materials AIUI, even to the extent of having the panes of
glass in the roof with a curved edge (called a beaver tail, I
believe), so that rainwater collects on the tip and runs down the
centre of the strip of panes, away from the wooden glazing bars.
They've also recreated the pineapple beds heated by horse manure. The
alternative, aluminium glazing bars, large panes and electric heating
from solar panels or windmills for example, would be wholly
inappropriate. They've also brought back to life the ram pumps that
supplied water to the estate from the river, even though there's a
perfectly good modern mains water supply available and has been for
many decades.

People want to see these things as they were. It's the whole object of
the exercise. It's what the NT is all about, as is Heligan for that
matter. If the NT wants to grow stuff commercially in a glasshouse,
for example for sale in the NT shop, then do it in a poly-tunnel away
from public view. If the public want to see a modern glasshouse or
equivalent, they go to the Eden Project or similar.


Yes, Heligan et al are interesting but how many of them do you want.

These old Victorian walled gardens are now two a penny, they are everywhere
and you only need to go to one and you have done the lot. Yes it's
interesting seeing how they used to do it without the modern equipment and
ideas but when do we get to see the modern equipment and ideas put into
practice? They all tend to be commercial so you can't. Going to Eden or Kew
or Wisley won't show you anything of how it all works because they hide it
all away from the visitors gaze.

Dare I say it but these pseudo Victorian gardens are getting rather boring,
and possibly misleading for the visitors who get a very romantic and totally
unrealistic cosy image of a Victorian gardener. They even ensure the punters
can't see the modern machinery like cultivators being used so it doesn't
spoil the image.

Yes, in some of the gardens where there is little of the old structures left
I would use double glazing and UPVC and powder coated Ally and computer
controls and all the other modern stuff available including solar panels in
some of the gardens to roof the sheds etc. Lets see how it would be done
now. A few 21st century walled gardens spread around the country as a
counterpoint to all the kitsch.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK