First John,

There is no such thing as wild KOI. KOI are the domesticated variety. The
only thing that she says about wild carp is that they have a brief life in
the wild.

She then goes into talking about protein needed by KOI; 'nough said. She
is still wrong. This is getting laughable.

Tom L.L.
"john.stoddard" wrote in message
news
What she is saying maybe true for wild Carp and Koi...

How many times have you been to a wild koi pond and found naturally
occuring
bags/boxes/containers of koi food.

Diets of Wild and Captitive Fish should not be compared
"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Excuse me Ingrid,

Please, give us just one meaningful scientific reference that "supports"
what you are touting. Please don't use the Canadian professor again who
is
a salmon and trout specialist and has never worked with Carp or KOI.
Why
do you insist on continuing to spout this drivel. Algae is made up of
cellulose which also makes up the majority of Spirulina, and any other
plant
that carp eat whether it is aquatic or land based.

Most catfish foods have the same ingredients including vitamins,
minerals,
etc as the food that you are always touting, in fact, Rangan makes
catfish
foods and the process is very similar. I have spoken to the president
of
the company.

Dr. Werner Steffens, Dr. Roland Billard, and Dr. Robert Stickney and Dr.
John Halver all say that KOI and carp should have 28 to 32% protein to
maintain these fish. All of these men are Aquaculturists and fish
nutritionist and I have mentioned this to you and any one else who wants
to
know what is the right thing to feed their fish over and over again and
yet
it doesn't seem to soak in. The SRAC also has reports out saying the
same
thing and still you refuse to do any real searching to find out the
truth
for yourself.

One of these days, you will realize how wrong you have been, but I
surely
will not be hold my breath and waiting for it to happen.

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------------------------
wrote in message
...
The average age of wild carp live in those european rivers is brief
indeed. There is
a difference between just getting enough and thriving. Everything I
have
read says
koi need protein to build muscles and fat for energy. That they
cannot
digest
complex carbohydrates.
Koi teeth are not made for thorough mastication of foods, nor do they
secrete
digestive juices into their mouth while they chew. Our land based
adaptations help
us start pre-digesting our food so the nutrients can be extracted
before
the food
mass exits our body.
Koi dont have a true stomach, they have a pyloric ceca which contains
digestive
enzymes and their liver and pancreas secrete enzymes right into the
intestines. Land
based animals like us produce acids that start the breakdown complex
and
land based
foods in the large stomach.
Everything koi have evolved to eat is wet with little to no cellulose.
They have
evolved to be a perpetual eating machine. They eat small amounts of
low
fiber,
nutrient rich foods all day long, not big chunks of dry food with lots
of
fiber/filler. Fiber does not help them digest out the protein and
fats
they need
from the mass of food moving through their intestines in a large
bolus.
Koi are adapted to digesting simple fats, the kind that go rancid very
fast if food
is sitting around in a warehouse. But corn oil and vegetable oils are
typically used
in cheap fish farm foods because they are cheap and dont go rancid at
room
temp.
Manufacturers of food for farmers that grow food fish (catfish) have
found
ways of
pre-digesting the complex carbohydrates and fats so they are available
to
put size
and bulk on catfish quickly. People do report fish fed on corn
develop
fatty livers.
I dont know if this is directly related to the corn in the food, or
the
fact that the
food could be rancid anyway and rancid oils will cause fatty liver
disease. In any
case, food fish are processed and in the stores before any problems
show
up.
OTOH, Jo Ann, who routinely does necropsies on GF and koi says she has
never found
fatty deposits in fish fed on high protein, high fat diets.
Ingrid

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote:
I suspect that carp in european rivers were pretty flexible in
their feeding habits and that it may have been hard for them to get
the
high
protein diets we feed...don't know, just a guess.


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