With the term Broad Spectrum I mean an insecticide that is NON specific, and
contact rather than systemic.

Products such as Orthene are contact insecticides and in my experience and
opinion have no systemic or
residual characteristics. Orthene and the like are the common products on
the shelves of garden centers
that most of us are exposed to on a regular basis. The more expensive
products, at first glance at least,
such as Immunox, are usually not offered in the retail trade due to the high
initial purchase cost.

I personally don't care for the food based systemic that are applied to the
soil as they often destroy the
beneficial organisms in the soil, such as earth worms.

My general position is to treat when there is a problem and use a minimal
technique along with IPM.
I also 'feed the soil and let the soil feed the plants'. I DO use
preventative measures for fungal diseases,
as a rule these diseases can not be eradicated once they infect a plant, you
can halt the spread but once
the damage is done there is no mechanism to remove the black spots, rust,
mildew etc.

Over all, my style is to observe, and be informed about the pathogens that
affect our roses. A bit of
knowledge is, in my opinion much more affective than a bottle of what ever
can be sprayed.

The products such as Immunox, Avid, Banner Max that are available through
specialty mail order
are more cost affective, offer better performance and have fewer draw backs
than the general
purpose products from the garden center.

I also don't keep rose varieties that have disease problems such as Mister
Lincoln and Touch of Class.
These two are mildew magnets and tend to encourage the disease in the rest
of the garden. I love
Mister Lincoln, it was my first rose, it just has too many drawbacks, the
same for Touch of Class.

The bottom line is, 'observation and information' are the most affective
tools we have.

Tim

"Shiva" wrote in message
news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.6ac5547c259222a3735116ca857c7569 @1049567828.cotse.net...
Tim Tompkins wrote:[...]

Thanks for a thoughtful and concise answer, Tim. I will try the Cygon in a
small spray bottle when the thrips first appear. By the way, Orthenex and
Immunox plus now contain a miticide, and Cygon's (I think it is
technically Cygon II)label says that it does too.


Please keep in mind that there are MANY beneficial insects that are also
killed by the broad spectrum insecticides. I prefer NOT to douse the
garden as it eliminated the beneficial.

Perhaps you can help me understand how you are using the term "broad
spectrum." I like to use liquid (i.e., not granular) SYSTEMIC insecticide,
which in my understanding kills only insects that bite or suck the juices
of the roses. The opposite, sometimes referred to as CONTACT insecticides
apparently kill any insect that comes into contact with it. If I use the
former, and not the latter, I do not expect to kill beneficials, because
by definition, beneficials do not chew, pierce, suck on, or otherwise
bother the plants. In my experience, this works fairly well, since I still
have ladybugs and many other types of insects in my garden. I
understand "broad spectrum" to mean killing a wide variety of insects. Do
you make no distinction between systemic and contact insecticides? Thank
you.