Charlie wrote in message
On Sun, 3 May 2009 10:46:37 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

Funny thing, success. Commonly in Europe it is gaged by service to your
family. Here in America, it is gaged by service to your job.

But at what cost to the workers?

A couple of nights ago, we went to the local chew and spew for a meal.

Funny little place. The food is edible without being much more than that
and reasonably priced for what it is. Competent waitresses who are
neither
friendly nor overly surly - just don't spill the food off the plate as
they
put it in front of you. If you want a drink you have to get it from the
bar.

When we left and were driving home, my husband said that he thought the
waitress expected a tip. I asked why he hadn't left one. His response
was
that no-one had done more than they were paid to do so he wasn't going to
give them a tip to reward non exertion.

And what are his criteria for being deserving of a tip?


He then went on to say that it was almost like being in America where
tipping was not only expected but, in some cases, demanded.

.........where servers are oftimes treated like chattel.

He's been to the US a lot for work but I know his attitude to rewarding
non
performance so asking him how he'd survived in the US. He said there had
been a number of 'ugly scenes' and that he had been told on a number of
occasions that the wages were so low that staff depended on tips to make
ends meet. His response was that he was responsible for paying a bill and
not their wages and that they should take it up with their employer. If
their employers were incapable of pricing the full cost of service then
there was no way that he would be expected to pay what was in effect the
staff's wages. Knowing him, I can just imagine it woul dhave been an
'ugly
scene'. I also know that if a tip had been demanded and not deserved, the
sky could have fallen on him before he'd have parted with a cent.

And what are his criteria for being deserving of a tip?

That the staff make some effort to do more than what they are paid wages to
do.

If what he says is anything near the truth (and I've never yet caught him
lieing) then Labor Day and all that implies sounds far more appropriate
than
a Liberty Day.

Sorry to sound churlish, but were I a food server, I wouldn't kiss his
ass at all and he could go elsewhere or eat his food out of his lap
where it would be deposited.

You are paid to serve food. If you are paid to be incompetent then
certainly serve the food in their lap.

If you are paid wages to serve the food on the plate and to place that plate
in front of the cusomer then that is what you are paid wages to do.

Servers at many places in this country bust their asses at an oftimes
thankless job, for substandard wages, working gawdawful hours and have
to suffer customer attitudes that most of us wouldn't tolerate.

You've missed the point entirely.

The whole idea of giving a wage to staff is that the money is compensation
for doing the work. If that work involves long hours and rotten customers
then the employer needs to pay sufficient wages so that staff will want to
continue to work there.

There is nothing wrong with being straightforward, but being stingy
with those who are less fortunate just plain sucks. And getting ugly
with servers sucks. I've seen it often and it is rude.

No, it's ugly and its rude to expect a tip for doing something for which a
wage is paid.

Wages are what staff are paid for just doing their job. A tip is a reward.
Just doing one's job is not sufficient justification to expect a tip.

It is not, or certainly should not, be considered to be anything other than
at the discretion of the customer. If service is such that it warrants a
tip, a tip will be given.

I'll let it go with that as we have had agreeable exchanges in the
past and I don't wish to cross with you , concerning with this issue.

Why do you think employers can get away with paying a lousy salary but
expect customers to make up for their stinginess?

The customer doesn't employ the staff. The customer is paying the business
to provide a service. The cost of that service includes adequate wages for
the work done. If the business is not prepared to pay staff a decent salary
and staff NEED to be given tips, then the business is trying to lay off
their costs in staff wages onto the customer. The customer is in effect
being charged twice over for the service.

Your response makes me think even more strongly that a Labor Day is more
appropriate than a Liberty Day.