Thread: Lest we forget
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:54 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
FarmI FarmI is offline
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
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Default Lest we forget

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 May 2009 16:19:18 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Sun, 3 May 2009 14:06:09 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:


Your response makes me think even more strongly that a Labor Day is more
appropriate than a Liberty Day.

And here we arguing differing customs in two different countries, eh?
Let's be careful.


Charlie you never, ever disappoint me :-))

I knew you'd figure it out. :-))


Yeah sure, after I went all amerocentric and temporarily lost my
focus...


:-))

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but give me enough time and I
might! ;-)


:-))))))


http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g1...Etiquette.html

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g2...Etiquette.html


Is the information in this site correct? That the minimum wage is
nearly double in oz what it is in the US?


Dunno, but I know I nearly fell of my chair after 9/11 when I read years
ago
in another ng that the new people employed to do security at US airports
were being paid $US3/hour. That is so low that no-one should be expected
to
work for that, ever.

Pay rates depend on the job of course but if there is no Award that covers
the job then the minmum you can be paid by law is $14.31/hour which works
out to $10.48 in your money. Traditionally we don't have many people
who'd
be on minimum wages.



What is an Award?


Ah! Quick and dirty definition: An Award is an agreement that includes
conditons of service (annual leave, Leave loadings, sick leave, Long Service
Leave, hours of work, dispute resolution mechanisms, rates of pay and such
like) and is negotiated between the employer and the union with coverage for
that industry (in the case of a big employer) or, in the case of small
businesses it will be negotiated between the unions and the employers
organisation that covers those types of businesses. Awards are registered
with either a State government or the Federal Government and are legally
binding. So an employer who doesn't pay the amount of salary that staff are
entitled to, the employer will be taken to court by the government, etc,
right across the things covered in the Award.

Tipping certainly isn't common here other than at good restaurants. The
one
we went to the other day is not the sort of place where you'd normal tip
anytime.


What about benefits? How
many servers in the US are elible for or receive benefits? Damn few.


Ummm not sure what you are asking here.


Used to be, less common now with the tits-upedness of the economy, a
good job came with company paid health insurance and oftimes a pension
plan of sort. Few years back, during the height of unionbusting and
such, since the Reagan years in particular, union busting and very
active antiunion methods have been employed.


Ah! Here people pay their own health coverage or if they don't choose to do
so, they are covered by a Federal government scheme called Medicare.

Traditionally here the sort of benefits staff could commonly expect to get
are a minimum of 3 weeks annual leave (but increasingly commonly, 4 weeks),
9% of salary paid by the employer to superannuation, somewhere between 1-2
weeks sick leave on full pay/year (sometimes also 1-2 weeks half pay sick
leave/year) and 1-3 months Long Service Leave on full pay after 10 years
service. These things only apply to full time staff - if you are a worker
employed casually, you generally get a 10-20% higher hourly rate of pay
because you don't get leave of any sort (except in some case such as the job
I have, we get Long Service leave after 10 years or in our case and other
older workers, we get pro rata Long Service leave if we resign after 2
years) - you still get supperannuation paid by the employer as a casual.



Charlie I'd never bust your balls. I might give them a little poke like I
have in this series of posts though.


Hmmm...that must have been what caused me to be.....testy.


:-)) Yes I suspected as much, even though I didn't set out to poke your
goolies at all.

or someone who stands for fairp(l)ay you better
consider the wage differences, if I read them correctly.


Yes. That is why you workers in the US need a Labor day along with all
that
implies. You are being screwed and that appalls me.


Hell yeah we are, and when the unemployment rate is at least fifteen
percent (ignore the official gummint fudged figures, actual is double
the reporting) there are plent of hungry who don't care about
unionization.


Indeed. Our unemployment rate is being reported as being 7% but then they
shove some workers off into other categories of what you'd call welfare so
the rate is hidden.

What server is going to give more than minimal service to someone who
is not going to tip or comes across with the attitude you describe, in
the US? I wouldn't and I'd hazard a guess that you wouldn't either.


Nope. I'd be out there joining a union and fighting for the rights of
workers in your situation. I've been engaged in a lot of union stouches on
both sides of the fence, as a negotiator on behalf of management and as a
negotiator on behalf of workers.


Union organization is a rough go. Been there, and been involved in
the organization, at one job I had. We pulled it off, but it was a
hell of a fight and then a continual fight.


:-)) Yep. I've got the Tee shirt too.

My place of work has been undergoing a process of negotiating for a new
agreement and although I wasn't on the team this time round, I threw a
total wobbly at a recent managment staff meeting. The dopy *******s who
were representing staff had let a clause through to the final draft because
they didn't understand what it meant. I asked management for an explanation
and hit the roof when they confirmed what I'd thought.

Management was trying to introduce a clause into our new agreement that was
immoral and unconscionable. And believe me, me chucking a wobbly is NOT a
pretty sight. I told them they were trying to perpetrate a fraud, that
they'd only try to use that clause once and after that they'd be out there
doing our jobs themselves because they'd suddenly find that all casual staff
were "unavailable" on a particular working day - being casual we can choose
not to come in because thay have no means of compelling us to do so.
They've now changed the clause.

You rightly observe that many americans are rude towards aussies


Nope, I didn't observe that.


My mistake.

and I
observe that when in another's country you observe local and national
customs in order that you don't appear a ****ing dick.

Tell your husband to consult a travel guide.


Waste of time Charlie. He may have ben highly competent at his job before
he
retired but you wouldn't let him out alone if you had any sense. In
Chicago
he asked a black woman how to get somewhere and he and another white
middle
class white Australian Honkie (is that the term?) went the way she'd go.
They ended up on a train where they were the only white faces and then got
off the train in what was a black slum where they were the only white
faces
in sight. Even I had trouble believing he'd be so silly but you should
hear
what an American friend who lives in New York says about it.


I don't give a fat
baby's ass how you do or don't tip in your local, but don't have the
arrogance to assume that your attitude and custom towards this issue
is the ****all end of the matter.


Huh? Now you've dropped into a vernacular that I don't understand at all.


Just as well, as I was being a bit angry and....testy, after getting
me nuts poked and missing the point a bit.


I understood that there was testiness there but I just couldn't translate it
into a form of English that I can understand. Just as well perhaps? ;-)