In article ,
songbird wrote:

Gunner wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:
Billy wrote:
Tropic of Chaos: Climate Change and the New Geography of Violence by
Christian Parenti (Jun 28, 2011)
Gunner writes
What a poorly written piece you present as evidence of organic best
practices. Do you really know about the hydrology or even the geology
of the area in this cherry picked book writers sociologist article?

To which the Birds reply:

oh well, better luck next time,

Better luck, Bird? You got a C- on your test questions and a D for
the essay defending stupid think. You generalize but you have no clue
as to the specific regional area billy's book writer is talking
about. Kinda like billy BSing about Mann and Biochar.

um, i never admitted to reading the book did i?
i can only base my replies upon what was quoted.


Africa? Well if you’re talking about the fact the two areas were once
one? Ok. If you’re talking about the effects of the Trade Winds from
Africa on that region? Ok. But the two drought/people are not
anywhere near similar. As for the cattle and disease problems unless
you wish to just split hairs on white man's guilt not relevant.

? cattle, disease problems? white man's guilt? do
you mean the fact that millions of natives were killed
by diseases brought from the old world to the new world?
i don't think there's much splitting of hairs to be
done there.


Still you do the math; 1.2 mil people living on very eco fragile land
that would realistically support 500K subsiding with assistance of a
government seed and stipend program. The water used in the primitive
drip irrigation the Catholic church is “translating” as some Organic
salvation is coming from some of the 7000 dams usually filled to ~50%
cap., most dry up in the many droughts they experience or some of the
many wells drilled by the government.

i'm still not seeing a negative from
encouraging a system which keeps the land
covered with multiple crops instead of a
monoculture.


The underground damming? Yes,
An old trick used in many lands for subsidence farming and basic
survival of a small number of people. A basic desert survival
technique I also taught . Try looking up the qanat for one such
trick. Farml’s one statement about her Country’s Aborigines using
such a trick is most likely true in their world of living off the
land but again, relevant how? I think there is a better land/people
distro as well as a different societal culture there.

the natives are not farmers there, they are
hunter-gatherers.


It is a given that area of Brazil will continue to experience more
severe droughts as well as erratic dry seasons in their march to
desertification.

desertification because of what?


Oh another small detail, much of the water is
trucked in the varying dry spells and droughts. So much for reducing
the carbon footprint.

i believe that the droughts would be much
worse when the land is monocultured and left
bare as compared to a system which keeps
the land covered and shaded as much as possible
from different plants.

yes, any shipping of water would be a negative
on the carbon footprint, but i don't think it
would be better under any other method of
farming either.

overall population reduction to be more in
line with the area's capacity to support them
is closer to sustainable agricultural principles
as far as i'm concerned.


As for the three sisters adaptation for ground
cover? Temporary as best. Building the soil bank. Ok! Still how long
will that last w/o water in that type sand, little to no clay
there.

i'm not talking three sisters for ground cover
i'm talking native plants that will grow if given
and chance and protected from overgrazing. this
is already a proven method in arid regions, but
you do need the people to cooperate in keeping
their animals from destroying the growth and you
need the people to not hack it apart for firewood
or fencing more than it can bear. if the region
is stable enough (has some form of government
strong enough to keep wars from breaking out and
ruining longer term projects) then it can do a
lot. from a simple thing like a line of rocks.


I will assume you’re not very familiar with desert life and
primitive cultures.

ok, and you criticize me for jumping
off from points unsubstatiated? heheh, ok...


As Farml also inferred you can get a lot of
information off of the internet these days, just how much is true. I
much prefer dot.edu rather than the many book writers living off of
“we are the world”.coms that billy pretends is organo.

i don't mind questioning information and
challenging it and talking about it to see
what might make sense and what might not.
what i do mind is calling people religious
fanatics just because they do things
differently.


As for your do you?

? no idea what you mean.

when i write my gardening stuff here i write
what i am actually doing. if i have a failure
i admit it and keep working at it.


Yes, I really do bird, geology/hydrology is in the family. My
interest was in archaeology and anthropology but was talked out of it
by a Prof before I went the military route. No regrets, all set up &
retired @ 48, been enjoying life since. I've lived in in three
countries and every state west of the Mississippi before I was 11
because of geology. Now days, 4 continents and 15-16 countries. My
interest today in anthropology, particularly in the Amerindians and
desert living stems from that. Hence my interest in hydroponics
also. I really have a pretty good idea of how the hunter gatherer
societies work (ed) than many and how the transition to farming takes
place. This area is just delaying the inevitable. Man is but a dust
speck on Nature's watch.

good deal, and i'm glad you've had a full and
happy life in those many places and are now retired.
i'm retired too at the same age you speak of.
can't say i've lived in that many places, but
i have lived in more than one region of the
states and i've travelled most of the country
with the car, tent and sleeping bag being my
only home. i'm quite sure many others travel
on vacation and see things, but i think my
perspective was different from a tourist
because as i travelled i was continually
asking myself "is this a place i want to live?"


But for you and billy et al? You boys ever actually been anywhere,
done anything or seen anything besides the day trips on the Internet
to give you actual life experiences?

*shrug* i've spent a fair amount of time in
Canada and vacationed in a handful of other
countries. also i have a number of friends who
did time in the service or were in the peace
corps and spent a lot of time talking about
what the saw/did. like you some of my college
interest was anthropology, but also like you
i went a different route to make a living and
it was good, but that didn't mean i never
read a decent book about another culture
since then or never looked at a peer reviewed
journal.


As for the inference from the
Aussie that Americans are not well schooled in worldly affairs and
her continuous inference that Americans are stupid SOBs??? Well I
would hope she realizes billy is but one of 380 Mil and pretty much of
a Walter Mitty. You ? Don't know but I assume you have not traveled
from from your nest either .

seen all but a handful of the states (Rhode
Island, Maine, Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, Louisiana,
and Arkansas) and most of Canada that can be
driven to other than the far North East coast.


Perhaps Farml is very well traveled and
properly papered, yet I seriously doubt her myopic view is based on
much more than her internet travels she talks about.

so Birds, I hope you also have good luck in your next time.

"properly papered" makes me crack up.

peace,


songbird

As usual, gunny has lots of opinions, but no citations to back up his
wacky assertions. Poor gunny tries to justify himself, but with so many
book writers (sociologists, don't ya know) disagreeing with him, all he
can do is to say that he is right and everybody else is wrong. What he
needs to do is to submit countervailing opinions from his own
persuasion, but sadly for gunny, there are few who agree with him.
Why would that be??! Could it be (gasp) that gunny is wrong?
Very likely.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it’s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That’s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don’t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis