In article , "Cereoid-XXXX"
wrote:

It sure is comforting to know that bigotry and stupidity are still thriving
among neo-nazi slackers like you, Deadweed.

"Incorrigible antisemitism casts a shadow over the historical reputation
of Poland," noted Ronald E. Modras.

It's was not cool that you were again being flamed for being Polish, but
it's MUCH worse to assume only nazis would notice a Polish heritage,
especially given how, historically speaking, Poles got along rather too
well with actual nazis. This is one of my personal bugbears -- calling
people nazis who by no stretch of the imagination even slightly resemble
nazis. It disrespects too many people who were seriously injured by the
nazis. And when it is bandied about against someone who didn't even get so
far as telling a pollack joke, well, it's jumping the gun rather too
seriously, & all it reminds me of is that Poles have been, & remain,
unreptentent antisemites.

Germans did (I still do) consider Poles & all slavic peoples to be
inferior, but so does most of the rest of the western world think that
way. Nevertheless Poles decided on which side of their bread would be
buttered, & nazis soon found cause to praise the "self-cleansing action"
of Polish society who with zero encouragement from Nazis set upon Jews &
killed them with great abandon, cutting their throats, setting them on
fire, & stomping Jewish babies in the heads -- it's all too well
documented by Jan Gross (& scores of others).

Indeed, so vicious were the Poles against the Jews even before the world
found out what Nazis were doing, that the Nazis were able to use Polish
attitudes against Jews as their "good excuse" for sealing Jews in ghettos
-- for their own protection against the orgy of death perpetrated by Poles
against Jews. At the beginning of the occupation, Jews actually did feel
protected by the nazis. There are levels of antisemitism -- hard to
imagine a more antisemitic people than the Russians -- but when the nazis
were pushed out of Poland, the few Jewish survivors welcomed the soviets,
because Poles were STILL killing Jews.

Poles have earned their inferiority complex. They hated Jews because the
intellectual life of Poland belonged to the Jews. Who in Poland was a
better writer than Bruno Shultz or I. L. Peretz? No one. The dominant
Catholic culture was of a peculiar coloration in Polish hands, & did not
seriously permit intellectual discourse. So an artist, mathemetician, or
philosopher who was not a Jew usually ended up hanging out with Jews! And
when the Germans arrived & rounded up the intelligentsia -- these being
"coincidentally" mainly Jews -- Poles were glad to help.

Such history is why that wonderful book MOUS depicts Poles as having the
faces of pigs. It's also why to this day any word meaning "Poles" is to
this day synonymous throughout Europe with "ignorant antisemites." And
when Poles whine about being picked on by polish jokes or for any other
reason, Poles remain no less unrepentent about their continuing
antisemitism.Jan Gross has well-documented the purely POLISH attrocities
against Jews, & laid out calmly the facts of the "the magnitude and
tenacity" of Polish antisemitism that is unabating to this day. Even
today, Poland is held far back from being a pluralistic democracy because
the culture & the people are very deeply antisemitic. They are never even
conflicted about when Jewish tourist dollars make it profitable to show
off the still-ruined synogogues & the gloomy sites of mass-slaughters of
Jews.

The source of this culture of antisemitism has for centuries been a form
of Catholicism that is bellicose, vicious, intolerant, & inhumane in its
teachings about the wickedness of Jews. There were moments in history when
Jews were respected in Poland, but these were times when the Catholic
church was least in control. There was an anti-Reformation movement in
Poland that had as its cornerstone the persecution of Jews. This long
history of hate is why Poles got along so well with nazis where the
disposition of Jews was concerned, & why it was the best place to
transport Jews from all over Europe to be killed. Obviously the nazis
hated Polish Catholic culture, but they did have this one big area very
much in common.

The government has some good laws against antisemitism but they are not
enforced. That the laws exist puts them ahead of Austria, the foremost
antisemitic nation in today's Europe. There is still tourist value from
Israelis & American Jews who want to visit places where our recent
ancestors were killed, so they pass stupid laws such as the "restoration
of synongogs" laws which permit the non-existent local Jews to restore
synogogues if they want to. Then the government praises itself for laws
that are meaningless. Synogogues are not being restored under these
meaingless laws. Hate group activity of sundry kinds is also
theoretically illegal, but by goverment policy even the most agregious mad
bomber isn't prosecuted. Kazimierz Switon was arrested for handing out
antisemitic literature at Auschwitz & insulting the profitable Israeli &
American tourists for behind ****ing Jews. He was found guilty of ahate
crime & sentenced to six months in prison, but was released in four weeks,
& a few months later his guilty verdict was reversed & he was acquitted of
further pending charges. Emboldened by how easily the law treated him, he
set bombs around Auschwitz, & the Warsaw prosecutor refused to prosecute
for it. The day all pending charges were dropped, a laughing Swinton left
the court to face cameras, & promised to carry on his war against the Jews
more aggressively than ever. A few months later a Warsaw prosecutor
refused even to investigate Switon's continuous illegal activities.

Polish revisionists like to claim it was Poles, more than Jews, the nazis
found inferior, & they pretend as many non-Jews were killed in the Pawiak
prison as in the Warsaw ghetto & in Auschwitz & Treblinka. Since the
1990s, "holocaust denial" has increased in popularity in Poland -- it was
Poles, not Jews, who suffered, & the literature upholding this delusion
grows almost hourly. Dr. Dariusz Ratajczyk of the University of Opoles
published a successful book "proving" the holocaust did not happen, & even
the liberal press turned out in support of his right to promote hate.
Ratajczyk was dragged into court, & boldly brought with him (as supporters
& companions) some of the most outrageous nazi sympathizers & antisemitic
activists Poland possesses. Reminiscent of Austria's Haider showing up at
public events with decrepit old nazis proudly wearing their nazi medals.
Several other "academics" have published holocaust denial books. It's
becoming veritably a Polish genre. That's what Poland's so-proud laws
against antisemitic hate crimes amounts to -- encouragement! (The
government is a little harder on Polish nazi skinhead youths -- but that's
because they're disobedient youth, not because of their antisemitism.)

The reality of course is tghat Yiddish culture was eradicated & does not
exist today. Polish culture does exist today. There is no comparison. And
those many Poles who today like to call the holocaust "indescriminate," as
bad for Poles as for Jews, are just trying to hide the fact that Poles
with their sticky fingers were eager to take everything that Jewish
families had owned, & assisted the Nazis without qualms in eradicating
Jews. Nor were Poles repentant after the war. Under the Soviets they
remained as antisemitic as ever. Today, Austria's intensely antisemitic
asshole Haider is a household name in Poland, & not with any condemnation.
If Austria can elect openly anti-Jewish holocaust-denying politicians,
there is hope for Poland doing the same!

Many of the most virulent antisemitic leaders in Poland are on the right,
some might even be regarded far right loonies, but alas there is no left
that counters them very sensibly. Leftist intellectual Ryszard Bugaj
condemned Gross's book on Polish attrocities against the Jews because,
Bugaj maintains, it is better not to reinforce the "stereotype" of Poles
being antisemites, & it is dangerous to provide such evidence that Jews
might be able to use to wrest properties away from Poles (who won them
fare & square by killing Jews in the 30s & 40s). Bugaj outright lied that
Jews would qualify for restitution of property under a re-privatization
act. Never mind that restitution would be just -- the law Bugaj cited
explicitely leaves Jews out by insisting no one can regain properties who
has not been a Polish citizen since 1999. So left, right, or in the
middle, the NORM in Poland is to be antisemitic, & it would take someone
unique to be otherwise -- & that person would likely instantly be
peripheralized as having the taint of Jewish blood even if they attend
their Catholic masses religiously.

There are moments of hop that suggest maybe Poland won't always be what it
has for so long been. Prime Minister Buzek acknowledged these weaknesses
of the Polish character & marched against antisemitism in Poland. But
then he nominated a notorious antisemite & holocaust-denier, Krzysztof
Kawecki, as Deputy Miniser of Education (of EDUCATION!). And of course
Walesa soon stopped being treated as a hero instead of the asshole he
actually was, though sadly his downfall was not because of his
antisemitism, that was not widely faulted. It's hard to be seriously
anti-nazi & not share the antisemitic standard of Polish culture when it
means confrontation with the Church, & probably the church will have to
change before Poles will change, though that's a "chicken or the egg"
riddle.

"Heros" like Walesa are not faulted for being intensely antisemitic --
Walesa told Kwasniewski he had no right to go to the Vatican because he
had Jews in his family tree. Well, Walesa did at least go down in flames
without any national support remaining to him, so maybe there is hope.
Still, what do rival footballer/soccer fans call supporters of the other
team? "Jews!" Its used by in the stands as being a worse thing to call
someone than "Mother****er." That's what Poland's really like. And opening
antisemitic organizations like Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski (and a dozen
similar organizaitons & political movements) are not hurting for
membership. The national catholic youth organization Mlodziez Wszechpolska
is famous for the murdering Jews & destroying what is left of Jewish
cemeteries -- just good catholic lads of the Polish type. It was no
coincidence the Catholic youth organization selected a name for itself
that before WWII was notoriously antisemitic. Has anyone stood up in the
parliament to condemn this Catholic organization? Certainly not. But
Witold Tomczak stood with 90 other parliamentarians to condemn a Polish
arts organization run by a man with a Jewish name & therefore Jewish
ancestors; never mind that Anda Rottenberg isn't Jewish, it's enough to be
tainted by the blood to incite the wrath of Polish elected officials.

This is just another reason that several variants of Godwin's law posit
the loser of any argument is whoever is first to call someone else a nazi.
Unless one is aactually speaking about nazis, it demeans peoples who were
marched into deathcamps to call anyone a nazi, especially if he was merely
mildly annoyed with you. I'm know much can be said in favor of Poles &
Poland, even if the dominant culture is antisemitic & naziistic to this
day. But nothing good can be said of any Pole mistaking bigotry (which
Poles are so good at) for naziism (which Poles supported & to this day do
not sufficiently deplore). Better to call someone you're ****ed off at a
soft stinky cat turd or a dog****ing pee drinking toadlicker. Being loose
with the term nazi lacks imagination & especially in the context of Poles
is all too often much more apropos of Poles.

-paghat the ratgirl

What's the matter? Did you get
laughed out of the video geek newsgroups for your ineptness and now you want
to terrorize a gardening group.

A half-wit troll neophyte cracker like you is not worthy of any detailed
insightful info, Dude.

Being rated by a know-nothing like you is a laugh riot.

Your mother sure likes doing that Polish keilbasa, at least she did the
other night!

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/