http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/space/1840766

March 28, 2003, 5:40AM

Helicopter crashes during shuttle debris search
Associated Press
BROADDUS -- A U.S. Forest Service helicopter searching for space shuttle
Columbia debris crashed Thursday in rural San Augustine County, killing two
people and injuring three.

All five people were in the helicopter when it crashed around 4:30 p.m. in
rough wooded terrain, said Kim Pease, a spokesman for the Federal Emergency
Management Agency.

The injured were taken to Memorial Medical Center of East Texas in Lufkin, said
NASA public affairs officer Dave Drachlis. Two were airlifted by helicopter and
one went by ambulance.

Marsha Cooper, spokeswoman for the U.S. Forest Service, said it was unclear
what agency the two people killed were affiliated with, and their names were
not immediately released.

Conditions of the three survivors were unavailable Thursday night.

The crash site was accessible only from muddy, rut-filled stretches of trail.
All-terrain vehicles were brought to the scene to assist emergency personnel,
the Lufkin Daily News reported in its Friday editions. ... (cont)

--------------------------

Well so much for thinning the forests!~

Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?
--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com


"Aozotorp" wrote in message
...
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/space/1840766

March 28, 2003, 5:40AM

Helicopter crashes during shuttle debris search
Associated Press
BROADDUS -- A U.S. Forest Service helicopter searching for space shuttle
Columbia debris crashed Thursday in rural San Augustine County, killing
two
people and injuring three.

All five people were in the helicopter when it crashed around 4:30 p.m. in
rough wooded terrain, said Kim Pease, a spokesman for the Federal
Emergency
Management Agency.

The injured were taken to Memorial Medical Center of East Texas in Lufkin,
said
NASA public affairs officer Dave Drachlis. Two were airlifted by
helicopter and
one went by ambulance.

Marsha Cooper, spokeswoman for the U.S. Forest Service, said it was
unclear
what agency the two people killed were affiliated with, and their names
were
not immediately released.

Conditions of the three survivors were unavailable Thursday night.

The crash site was accessible only from muddy, rut-filled stretches of
trail.
All-terrain vehicles were brought to the scene to assist emergency
personnel,
the Lufkin Daily News reported in its Friday editions. ... (cont)

--------------------------

Well so much for thinning the forests!~

Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?

They do what they are funded to do!

--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com


"Aozotorp" wrote in message
...
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/space/1840766

March 28, 2003, 5:40AM

Helicopter crashes during shuttle debris search
Associated Press
BROADDUS -- A U.S. Forest Service helicopter searching for space shuttle
Columbia debris crashed Thursday in rural San Augustine County, killing
two
people and injuring three.

All five people were in the helicopter when it crashed around 4:30 p.m. in
rough wooded terrain, said Kim Pease, a spokesman for the Federal
Emergency
Management Agency.

The injured were taken to Memorial Medical Center of East Texas in Lufkin,
said
NASA public affairs officer Dave Drachlis. Two were airlifted by
helicopter and
one went by ambulance.

Marsha Cooper, spokeswoman for the U.S. Forest Service, said it was
unclear
what agency the two people killed were affiliated with, and their names
were
not immediately released.

Conditions of the three survivors were unavailable Thursday night.

The crash site was accessible only from muddy, rut-filled stretches of
trail.
All-terrain vehicles were brought to the scene to assist emergency
personnel,
the Lufkin Daily News reported in its Friday editions. ... (cont)

--------------------------

Well so much for thinning the forests!~

Aozotorp wrote:

Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?


They do what they are funded to do!



What the heck does that mean? If FS employees were told to do it and
had the budget, they'd do it. Checking for wreckage is in line with land
management. They probably looked forward to the job. Nobody ever thinks
they're going to crash though helicopters go down all the time.

"Joe Zorzin" wrote in message ...
Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?
--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com

Actually, yes. I've flown in helicopters many times during my career
in the USFS. Some while fighting fire and some while doing timber
work.

On one fire in the LA mountains, we worked a night shift and were
flown out in the early morning. Our crew got out and they were flying
out the next crew when a jet from Edwards flew UNDERNEATH the
helicopter. Flight operations were immediately shut down because the
fire area was supposedly restricted airspace. The other crew and a
half had to walk out and finally showed up in fire camp in the
mid-afternoon, not at all a happy bunch.

I've flown several times with helicopters loggers' chase ships,
dropping me off at the top and allowing me to inspect while walking
downhill. Also, for a three week stretch, I was on a marking crew and
was flown to high spots on helicopter projects. This was during the
spring in Idaho and those steep slopes were quite slippery.

It used to be that all you needed to fly was your supervisor's
permission. Now you get special training and the ships are inspected
by USFS aviation specialists.

Larry

Aozotorp wrote:

Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?


They do what they are funded to do!



What the heck does that mean? If FS employees were told to do it and
had the budget, they'd do it. Checking for wreckage is in line with land
management. They probably looked forward to the job. Nobody ever thinks
they're going to crash though helicopters go down all the time.


Sounds like a time consuming process that distracts the Foresat Service from
their mission = have you check the funding for Thinning this year! NASA
Helicopters should be out there covering their own fiasco!

Aozotorp wrote:

Aozotorp wrote:

Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?


They do what they are funded to do!



What the heck does that mean? If FS employees were told to do it and
had the budget, they'd do it. Checking for wreckage is in line with land
management. They probably looked forward to the job. Nobody ever thinks
they're going to crash though helicopters go down all the time.



Sounds like a time consuming process that distracts the Foresat Service from
their mission = have you check the funding for Thinning this year! NASA
Helicopters should be out there covering their own fiasco!

That may be so - however, FS personel are probably the only ones who
know that section of country. It's surprisingly difficult to even know
where you are, much less look for little bits of spacecraft, if you're
not completely familiar with the territory. I once spent two months
out of a six month fire season trying to get a contractor recon pilot to
recognize his daily route.

(Larry Harrell) wrote in message om...
"Joe Zorzin" wrote in message ...
Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?
--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com

Actually, yes. I've flown in helicopters many times during my career
in the USFS. Some while fighting fire and some while doing timber
work.

On one fire in the LA mountains, we worked a night shift and were
flown out in the early morning. Our crew got out and they were flying
out the next crew when a jet from Edwards flew UNDERNEATH the
helicopter. Flight operations were immediately shut down because the
fire area was supposedly restricted airspace. The other crew and a
half had to walk out and finally showed up in fire camp in the
mid-afternoon, not at all a happy bunch.

I've flown several times with helicopters loggers' chase ships,
dropping me off at the top and allowing me to inspect while walking
downhill. Also, for a three week stretch, I was on a marking crew and
was flown to high spots on helicopter projects. This was during the
spring in Idaho and those steep slopes were quite slippery.

It used to be that all you needed to fly was your supervisor's
permission. Now you get special training and the ships are inspected
by USFS aviation specialists.

Larry

Big time regulations... what's the name of that ungodly sized
book-o-rules you have Larry? IHOG or something, I forget what the
acronym stands for, but I remember looking at it when we were sent to
Oregon. Hugemungous!

S.

"Mike H" wrote in message
...
Aozotorp wrote:

Aozotorp wrote:

That may be so - however, FS personel are probably the only ones who
know that section of country. It's surprisingly difficult to even know
where you are, much less look for little bits of spacecraft, if you're
not completely familiar with the territory. I once spent two months
out of a six month fire season trying to get a contractor recon pilot to
recognize his daily route.

And remeber the two that died, and the others injured. They were doing
their job, providing for the needs of the area. That is tough country they
were working, thick, creeks, streams, heavy woods, not for amatures.

Mike H wrote in message ...
Aozotorp wrote:

Aozotorp wrote:

Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?


They do what they are funded to do!



What the heck does that mean? If FS employees were told to do it and
had the budget, they'd do it. Checking for wreckage is in line with land
management. They probably looked forward to the job. Nobody ever thinks
they're going to crash though helicopters go down all the time.



Sounds like a time consuming process that distracts the Foresat Service from
their mission = have you check the funding for Thinning this year! NASA
Helicopters should be out there covering their own fiasco!

That may be so - however, FS personel are probably the only ones who
know that section of country. It's surprisingly difficult to even know
where you are, much less look for little bits of spacecraft, if you're
not completely familiar with the territory. I once spent two months
out of a six month fire season trying to get a contractor recon pilot to
recognize his daily route.

Well, I am glad the shuttle fell in the area by specified patterns

On 28 Mar 2003 18:56:17 -0800, (Scott Murphy) wrote:

(Larry Harrell) wrote in message om...
"Joe Zorzin" wrote in message ...
Does the USFS ever force its forestry staff to do something like this?
--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com

Actually, yes. I've flown in helicopters many times during my career
in the USFS. Some while fighting fire and some while doing timber
work.

On one fire in the LA mountains, we worked a night shift and were
flown out in the early morning. Our crew got out and they were flying
out the next crew when a jet from Edwards flew UNDERNEATH the
helicopter. Flight operations were immediately shut down because the
fire area was supposedly restricted airspace. The other crew and a
half had to walk out and finally showed up in fire camp in the
mid-afternoon, not at all a happy bunch.

I've flown several times with helicopters loggers' chase ships,
dropping me off at the top and allowing me to inspect while walking
downhill. Also, for a three week stretch, I was on a marking crew and
was flown to high spots on helicopter projects. This was during the
spring in Idaho and those steep slopes were quite slippery.

It used to be that all you needed to fly was your supervisor's
permission. Now you get special training and the ships are inspected
by USFS aviation specialists.

Larry

Big time regulations... what's the name of that ungodly sized
book-o-rules you have Larry? IHOG or something, I forget what the
acronym stands for, but I remember looking at it when we were sent to
Oregon. Hugemungous!

S.

I sa an article on crews from the National Interagency Fire Center
(which includes USFS among others) being used for some of this work.
Very good use of the talents of this bunch of folks IMO.
JC

Not for smart foresters (ha ha ha). I was down near your country, Don.
The hell with that. Thick is an understatement!

Don Staples wrote:

"Mike H" wrote in message
...
Aozotorp wrote:

Aozotorp wrote:

That may be so - however, FS personel are probably the only ones who
know that section of country. It's surprisingly difficult to even know
where you are, much less look for little bits of spacecraft, if you're
not completely familiar with the territory. I once spent two months
out of a six month fire season trying to get a contractor recon pilot to
recognize his daily route.

And remeber the two that died, and the others injured. They were doing
their job, providing for the needs of the area. That is tough country they
were working, thick, creeks, streams, heavy woods, not for amatures.

Wimp! CL;-}
"Geoff Kegerreis" wrote in message ...
Not for smart foresters (ha ha ha). I was down near your country, Don.
The hell with that. Thick is an understatement!
Don Staples wrote:

"Mike H" wrote in message
...
Aozotorp wrote:

Aozotorp wrote:

That may be so - however, FS personel are probably the only ones who
know that section of country. It's surprisingly difficult to even know
where you are, much less look for little bits of spacecraft, if you're
not completely familiar with the territory. I once spent two months
out of a six month fire season trying to get a contractor recon pilot to
recognize his daily route.
And remeber the two that died, and the others injured. They were doing
their job, providing for the needs of the area. That is tough country they
were working, thick, creeks, streams, heavy woods, not for amatures.

Was in part of the impact area today marking timber. Found a little bit of insulation, and left a little blood with the brush. Oh, and a boot heal, tough being old and worn out, boots too.
"Don Staples" wrote in message ...
Wimp! CL;-}
"Geoff Kegerreis" wrote in message ...
Not for smart foresters (ha ha ha). I was down near your country, Don.
The hell with that. Thick is an understatement!
Don Staples wrote:

"Mike H" wrote in message
...
Aozotorp wrote:

Aozotorp wrote:

That may be so - however, FS personel are probably the only ones who
know that section of country. It's surprisingly difficult to even know
where you are, much less look for little bits of spacecraft, if you're
not completely familiar with the territory. I once spent two months
out of a six month fire season trying to get a contractor recon pilot to
recognize his daily route.
And remeber the two that died, and the others injured. They were doing
their job, providing for the needs of the area. That is tough country they
were working, thick, creeks, streams, heavy woods, not for amatures.