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Old 30-03-2003, 06:44 PM
Ghost Cat
 
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Default Wasteland to Forest

Wasteland to Forest

www.wastelandtoforest.com





  #2   Report Post  
Old 30-03-2003, 08:32 PM
Mike H
 
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Default Wasteland to Forest

Ghost Cat wrote:
Wasteland to Forest

www.wastelandtoforest.com





So your goal is to flood recently harvested industrial forest land?

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Old 30-03-2003, 09:56 PM
Don Staples
 
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Default Wasteland to Forest

Neat site. An unidentified road side ditch compared to a stream side
forest. And all they want in money.

"Ghost Cat" wrote in message
m...
Wasteland to Forest

www.wastelandtoforest.com







  #4   Report Post  
Old 31-03-2003, 01:32 AM
Ghost Cat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest

No. Those are just random pictures. One if of an abandoned mine, and the
other is of a good place. What I will be doing (I hope not alone) will
depend on the place - the soil, the pollution, the landscape, the climate,
ground water depth and so on. There are thousands of abandoned mines,
totally neglected for hundreds of years. The nature need just a little push
there.

Val


o==]=========== www.ghost-cat.com ===========[==o

Seek no evil and you shall find none.


"Mike H" wrote in message
...
Ghost Cat wrote:
Wasteland to Forest

www.wastelandtoforest.com





So your goal is to flood recently harvested industrial forest land?




  #5   Report Post  
Old 31-03-2003, 01:56 PM
Joe Zorzin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest

"Ghost Cat" wrote in message
m...
Wasteland to Forest

www.wastelandtoforest.com






Mother Nature will also do a restoration, which is not to say that most
logging is properly done- since most of it isn't. But, even some properly
done logging will look that atrocious in the short term. But, if done
correctly, the healing will be quick- if done wrong, the healing will take
centuries.

So, the REAL issue, isn't that some logging looks ugly as sin. The real
issue is that the logging was carried out by honest and competent foresters
who are trained to know what the results will be, how the land will respond,
and who understand the economics of the project- the LONG TERM economics-
including present externalities, i.e., costs not generally accounted for to
be paid for by the public- and including some positive benefits also not put
into the accounting equation.

--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com




  #6   Report Post  
Old 31-03-2003, 04:56 PM
Ghost Cat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest

True, and I mostly looking at the places where the top soil was removed,
like former mines. There are tens of thousands of them in the US. In will
take a very long time for such place to heal itself. Anyway we destroy
forests faster than mother Nature can bring them back. The least we can do
is to give a little help.

I live on a property where the soil is mostly clay. The house was built
years ago and the developers spread the layer of straw with the grass seeds
on it but it is still mostly clay. Even in the best places the top soil was
only a couple of inches deep. I was nearly broke when I moves in last fall
so the only thing I could afford is to collect leaves from everywhere and to
make the compost piles in some spots. A week ago I moved one of the piles to
the next spot. Seven days later the old spot looks like a little jungle.
Things that grew up there! I have never seen such plants in my life. Where
did they come from? And it only took a week. Yesterday the groundhog came
to one of such places closest to its burrow and just sat there staring at it
all evening.

Another interesting thing. The garden shop gave me a full truck of top soil
last fall. They needed to get rid of it before the place was closed for
winter. I filled a couple of pits created by erosion with it. Nothing yet
grew up there at all. It just remains the black spots, even the one where I
put a half a dozen of the alternate layers of the leaves and the top soil.
What kind of top soil do they sell in shops?

But the most interesting thing is that I don't have the garbage pick up.
Instead of paying $20 a month I adjusted my shopping style and my diet so
almost everything is compostable.

"Joe Zorzin" wrote in message
"Ghost Cat" wrote in message
m...
Wasteland to Forest

www.wastelandtoforest.com


Mother Nature will also do a restoration, which is not to say that most
logging is properly done- since most of it isn't. But, even some properly
done logging will look that atrocious in the short term. But, if done
correctly, the healing will be quick- if done wrong, the healing will take
centuries.

So, the REAL issue, isn't that some logging looks ugly as sin. The real
issue is that the logging was carried out by honest and competent

foresters
who are trained to know what the results will be, how the land will

respond,
and who understand the economics of the project- the LONG TERM economics-
including present externalities, i.e., costs not generally accounted for

to
be paid for by the public- and including some positive benefits also not

put
into the accounting equation.

--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com





  #7   Report Post  
Old 31-03-2003, 07:20 PM
Mike H
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest

Ghost Cat wrote:
True, and I mostly looking at the places where the top soil was removed,
like former mines. There are tens of thousands of them in the US. In will
take a very long time for such place to heal itself. Anyway we destroy
forests faster than mother Nature can bring them back. The least we can do
is to give a little help.

I live on a property where the soil is mostly clay. The house was built
years ago and the developers spread the layer of straw with the grass seeds
on it but it is still mostly clay. Even in the best places the top soil was
only a couple of inches deep. I was nearly broke when I moves in last fall
so the only thing I could afford is to collect leaves from everywhere and to
make the compost piles in some spots. A week ago I moved one of the piles to
the next spot. Seven days later the old spot looks like a little jungle.
Things that grew up there! I have never seen such plants in my life. Where
did they come from? And it only took a week. Yesterday the groundhog came
to one of such places closest to its burrow and just sat there staring at it
all evening.

Another interesting thing. The garden shop gave me a full truck of top soil
last fall. They needed to get rid of it before the place was closed for
winter. I filled a couple of pits created by erosion with it. Nothing yet
grew up there at all. It just remains the black spots, even the one where I
put a half a dozen of the alternate layers of the leaves and the top soil.
What kind of top soil do they sell in shops?

But the most interesting thing is that I don't have the garbage pick up.
Instead of paying $20 a month I adjusted my shopping style and my diet so
almost everything is compostable.

"Joe Zorzin" wrote in message

"Ghost Cat" wrote in message
. com...

Wasteland to Forest

www.wastelandtoforest.com


Mother Nature will also do a restoration, which is not to say that most
logging is properly done- since most of it isn't. But, even some properly
done logging will look that atrocious in the short term. But, if done
correctly, the healing will be quick- if done wrong, the healing will take
centuries.

So, the REAL issue, isn't that some logging looks ugly as sin. The real
issue is that the logging was carried out by honest and competent


foresters

who are trained to know what the results will be, how the land will


respond,

and who understand the economics of the project- the LONG TERM economics-
including present externalities, i.e., costs not generally accounted for


to

be paid for by the public- and including some positive benefits also not


put

into the accounting equation.

--
Joe Zorzin
http://www.forestmeister.com






Rebuilding soil is definitely the hard part, but it can be hurried a
bit. (heres where our resident mushroom man jumps in-where are you Dan).

As a person who actually does restoration forestry, I've got to say a
LOT of faith is involved when starting with a just-harvested clearcut.
Still, it happens. I drive by stands that look exactly like the one on
your page twenty five years ago and now they're well past their PCT
stage and looking great.

Conservation easements between the owner and a land trust are a fine way
to ensure that forestland doesn't get developed before it regrows. I'd
recommend taking that path anytime.

  #8   Report Post  
Old 31-03-2003, 07:56 PM
kate
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest



Mike H wrote:


Rebuilding soil is definitely the hard part, but it can be hurried a
bit. (heres where our resident mushroom man jumps in-where are you Dan).

As a person who actually does restoration forestry, I've got to say a
LOT of faith is involved when starting with a just-harvested clearcut.
Still, it happens. I drive by stands that look exactly like the one on
your page twenty five years ago and now they're well past their PCT
stage and looking great.

Conservation easements between the owner and a land trust are a fine way
to ensure that forestland doesn't get developed before it regrows. I'd
recommend taking that path anytime.


Can you recommend some reading material on restoration forestry? I'm off
to Vermont this summer to 60 acres of former farmland.

Kate

  #9   Report Post  
Old 31-03-2003, 08:56 PM
Mike H
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest

kate wrote:

Mike H wrote:



Rebuilding soil is definitely the hard part, but it can be hurried a
bit. (heres where our resident mushroom man jumps in-where are you Dan).

As a person who actually does restoration forestry, I've got to say a
LOT of faith is involved when starting with a just-harvested clearcut.
Still, it happens. I drive by stands that look exactly like the one on
your page twenty five years ago and now they're well past their PCT
stage and looking great.

Conservation easements between the owner and a land trust are a fine way
to ensure that forestland doesn't get developed before it regrows. I'd
recommend taking that path anytime.



Can you recommend some reading material on restoration forestry? I'm off
to Vermont this summer to 60 acres of former farmland.

Kate


Gordon Robinson's "The Forest and the Trees". Island Press, Covelo CA.
It's one of the classics. Also check out Chris Maser's works. I tend to
be western US oriented - the east probably has lots I'm not familiar
with. Otherwise Google: Forest Stewards Guild, the National Network of
Forest Practitioners (NNFP), Ecoforestry Journal, etc! There are tons
of technical works now, mostly in journals.

  #10   Report Post  
Old 01-04-2003, 12:56 AM
kate
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest



Mike H wrote:

kate wrote:

Mike H wrote:



Rebuilding soil is definitely the hard part, but it can be hurried a
bit. (heres where our resident mushroom man jumps in-where are you Dan).

As a person who actually does restoration forestry, I've got to say a
LOT of faith is involved when starting with a just-harvested clearcut.
Still, it happens. I drive by stands that look exactly like the one on
your page twenty five years ago and now they're well past their PCT
stage and looking great.

Conservation easements between the owner and a land trust are a fine way
to ensure that forestland doesn't get developed before it regrows. I'd
recommend taking that path anytime.



Can you recommend some reading material on restoration forestry? I'm off
to Vermont this summer to 60 acres of former farmland.

Kate


Gordon Robinson's "The Forest and the Trees". Island Press, Covelo CA.
It's one of the classics. Also check out Chris Maser's works. I tend to
be western US oriented - the east probably has lots I'm not familiar
with. Otherwise Google: Forest Stewards Guild, the National Network of
Forest Practitioners (NNFP), Ecoforestry Journal, etc! There are tons
of technical works now, mostly in journals.


Thanks! Just reserved The Forest and the Trees and The Forest Primeval.

Kate


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Old 01-04-2003, 02:32 AM
Ghost Cat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest


"kate" wrote in message

Gordon Robinson's "The Forest and the Trees". Island Press, Covelo CA.
It's one of the classics. Also check out Chris Maser's works. I tend to
be western US oriented - the east probably has lots I'm not familiar
with. Otherwise Google: Forest Stewards Guild, the National Network of
Forest Practitioners (NNFP), Ecoforestry Journal, etc! There are tons
of technical works now, mostly in journals.


Thanks! Just reserved The Forest and the Trees and The Forest Primeval.



http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/...734656Y5111570

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/...409635Y1663795








  #12   Report Post  
Old 03-04-2003, 01:32 AM
kate
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest



Ghost Cat wrote:

Thanks! Just reserved The Forest and the Trees and The Forest Primeval.


http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/...734656Y5111570

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/...409635Y1663795


Thanks! I try to do the library thing whenever I can.

Kate
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Old 03-04-2003, 09:57 AM
Daniel B. Wheeler
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wasteland to Forest

"Ghost Cat" wrote in message m...
True, and I mostly looking at the places where the top soil was removed,
like former mines. There are tens of thousands of them in the US. In will
take a very long time for such place to heal itself.

I'd disagree with that assessment. The main reason such sites don't
grow back more quickly is because the mycorrhizal fungi, essential to
most tree survival, are destroyed within a year of topsoil removal.
Even if the topsoil is stockpiled, the fungi die because the host
plants, many species specific (found only with a particular species of
tree or shrub) have been removed. Thus it is necessary to first add
such mycorrhizal fungi as can be cultivated _and_ are appropriate for
the tree/shrubs being planted.
Anyway we destroy
forests faster than mother Nature can bring them back. The least we can do
is to give a little help.

_Most_ sites under 1,000 feet elevation, provided they are reforested
within 6 months of clearcutting, will regenerate in the West. It is
when these sites are not reforested within that time frame that
re-forestation becomes a joke. Clearcuts above 1,000 feet elevation
are still problematic.

I live on a property where the soil is mostly clay. The house was built
years ago and the developers spread the layer of straw with the grass seeds
on it but it is still mostly clay. Even in the best places the top soil was
only a couple of inches deep. I was nearly broke when I moves in last fall
so the only thing I could afford is to collect leaves from everywhere and to
make the compost piles in some spots. A week ago I moved one of the piles to
the next spot. Seven days later the old spot looks like a little jungle.
Things that grew up there! I have never seen such plants in my life. Where
did they come from? And it only took a week. Yesterday the groundhog came
to one of such places closest to its burrow and just sat there staring at it
all evening.

Compost piles also generate a lot of fungi and soil-building
organisms. These in turn attract birds and animal animals which feed
on insects and fungal gnats, attracted by the composting process.
(Fungal gnats can go through an entire life cycle within 3 days.)

Another interesting thing. The garden shop gave me a full truck of top soil
last fall. They needed to get rid of it before the place was closed for
winter. I filled a couple of pits created by erosion with it. Nothing yet
grew up there at all. It just remains the black spots, even the one where I
put a half a dozen of the alternate layers of the leaves and the top soil.
What kind of top soil do they sell in shops?

Non-biologically active, it would seem. You still need to add
mycorrhizal fungi to the soil. In many composts, such fungi will be
brought into the site through soil-building organisms, such as
arthropods, insects, fungal gnats, etc.

But the most interesting thing is that I don't have the garbage pick up.
Instead of paying $20 a month I adjusted my shopping style and my diet so
almost everything is compostable.

That's good! Compost is one of the best things for soil building. But
it takes _a lot_ over many years to rebuild soil fertility.

If you are trying to plant grasses here, you need some Glomus mosseae
and other Glomus species, which are found world-wide in most top-soils
which have _not_ been stockpiled. In other words, one way to increase
soil fertility is to add a tiny amount of _fresh_ topsoil to the site.

The other single most important additive is to add as many mycorrhizal
fungi as possible. Most mycorrhizal fungi cultivation is unknown. But
there are some general additives that should to the trick. Try reading
about these through a search on Google for more information. Without
specific information on species you are trying to grow on the site, or
may want to grow there in the future, I can't suggest appropriate
mycorrhizal fungi.

Here's part of the dilemma: Douglas-fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii) is
associated with at least 3,000 species of mycorrhizal fungi. Close to
2,000 of those species may be species specific (associated only with
Douglas-fir). The other 1,000 species are poorly understood. Almost
none of them have been cultivated at this time.

Some mycorrhizae are associated with mosses, grass, herbs, forbes,
shrubs and trees. Part of the definition of desert is the number and
complexity of mycorrhizal fungi in soils.

Compost or other humus source is one of the most valuable additives to
the property you can provide. Once the site has a source of food for
soil-building micro-organisms, they are much more likely to move in
naturally to the site.

Daniel B. Wheeler
www.oregonwhitetruffles.com
 
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