In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

I am all for such simple schemes. Water rates that have a sliding scale
so that the profligate pay more per kilolitre would be a good start.
There would have to be a special hardship clause or shower timers for
those with daughters though :-)

My Dad told me that in Sydney, years ago, there was a basic amount of water
that you got at a flat rate. This was apparently so that people didn't save
water by refraining from washing their bodies and clothes!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

Once long ago, against her breast, a mother hush'd a babe to rest
Who was the Prince of heav'n above, the Lord of gentleness and love...
John Wheeler, 'The Silver Stars are in the Sky'

In article ,
"ian .at.bendigo" wrote:

No one is interested in water saving measures , I learnt this when I went to
the pump shop to set up my grey water system

If you think they weren't interested there, just wait for your Council's
reaction!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

Once long ago, against her breast, a mother hush'd a babe to rest
Who was the Prince of heav'n above, the Lord of gentleness and love...
John Wheeler, 'The Silver Stars are in the Sky'

In article ,
"SG1" wrote:

We have three rainwater tanks. Use it for drinking & cooking and one tank
for the garden & the dogs. Just had water restrictions for 2 weeks now the
local weir is full, 5-8 inches upstream got the waterholes filled and the
Moonie river is now flowing. Giving our good Qld water to the Pinkos (Carr)
in NSW. We have had 30mm so far this month. Regarding usage of water our
allocation is one (1) megalitre (4 1/4 blocks) and we use just over 30% of
that.

Carr's a pinko? I suppose he might look like one to a banana bender.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

Once long ago, against her breast, a mother hush'd a babe to rest
Who was the Prince of heav'n above, the Lord of gentleness and love...
John Wheeler, 'The Silver Stars are in the Sky'

He IS in the (HARD) Labor party eh?????

"Chookie" wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-AF6874.15545721122002@news...
In article ,
"SG1" wrote:

We have three rainwater tanks. Use it for drinking & cooking and one
tank
for the garden & the dogs. Just had water restrictions for 2 weeks now
the
local weir is full, 5-8 inches upstream got the waterholes filled and
the
Moonie river is now flowing. Giving our good Qld water to the Pinkos
(Carr)
in NSW. We have had 30mm so far this month. Regarding usage of water our
allocation is one (1) megalitre (4 1/4 blocks) and we use just over 30%
of
that.

Carr's a pinko? I suppose he might look like one to a banana bender.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

Once long ago, against her breast, a mother hush'd a babe to rest
Who was the Prince of heav'n above, the Lord of gentleness and love...
John Wheeler, 'The Silver Stars are in the Sky'

"S. McLaren" writes:
Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Bushfires are an inevitable part of the Australian scene. Homes bordering
bushland need to be built to withstand the approach of a fierce fire. In
most cases where homes are lost, there has been ample time to implement
a complete lockdown: putting galvanised iron shutters over windows, over
roof gutters, over fences, etc., if only these were an integral part of
the design right from the start. I'm sure it can be done.

The first step to insulating agriculture against extended periods of zero
rainfall is to get rid of all hoofed animals from unimproved grazing land.
Hoofed animals pound grassless trails, the start of soil erosion, along
ridgelines and in gullies, foul waterholes, and trample as much grass as
they eat. Only soft-footed animals should be allowed to graze on native
grasses and uncultivated soil--animals such as camels, kangaroos, emus,
etc. These are what should be farmed in marginal grazing areas. You never
see a mob of roos ploughing up the mud to get to the middle of a water
hole to drink--they drink delicately from the water's edge and stir up no
sediment. They are a lot more efficient in their use of water and food,
too. We cannot sustain the hidden costs associated with the insistence of
applying European agricultural husbandry to our non-European land (tree
clearing, soil degradation and erosion, water waste, salinity in some
places and lowering of the aquifer in others, chemical- and fuel-hungry
practices, native plant and animal extinction, acute vulnerability to
foreign pests and diseases, etc.)

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the "punishment"
whenever it comes?

The land suffers in silence.
--
John Savage (for email, replace "ks" with "k" and delete "n")

"John Savage" wrote in message

The first step to insulating agriculture against extended periods of zero
rainfall is to get rid of all hoofed animals from unimproved grazing land.

Sounds great in theory but unfortunately it is not necessarily true on the
ground. At least with hoofed animals there is some hope of managing
stocking density: not so with the so-called soft footed natives which, in
current numbers, do a LOT of damage.

Camels!!! Supply MILK & MEAT

"Fran Higham" wrote in message
...
"John Savage" wrote in message

The first step to insulating agriculture against extended periods of
zero
rainfall is to get rid of all hoofed animals from unimproved grazing
land.

Sounds great in theory but unfortunately it is not necessarily true on the
ground. At least with hoofed animals there is some hope of managing
stocking density: not so with the so-called soft footed natives which, in
current numbers, do a LOT of damage.

"Fran Higham" writes:
"John Savage" wrote in message
The first step to insulating agriculture against extended periods of zero
rainfall is to get rid of all hoofed animals from unimproved grazing land.

Sounds great in theory but unfortunately it is not necessarily true on the
ground. At least with hoofed animals there is some hope of managing
stocking density: not so with the so-called soft footed natives which, in
current numbers, do a LOT of damage.

When land is carrying more mouths than it can support, regardless of
species, some damage is inevitable. But, just as was done with the pig
and the ox, selective breeding over generations could give us a heavy-set
less-athletic 'roo---more tractable and less flighty---and ultimately more
manageable. One advantage about farming in a low-rainfall climate, if you
erect good fencing and yards around your few watering holes you could pen
the animals (by remote control, closing the gate via a webcam link?) when
the mob comes to drink. In drier times, anyway.

They do tail-docking of lambs and some dogs, and I am wondering about
the result on its speed of tail-docking a roo as a joey. Anyone ever
seen a 'roo without a tail, perhaps as the result of an accident, and
can say how this affected its ability to leap?

Anyway, GM experimentation should soon be able to create the ideal farm
animal for any region!
--
John Savage (for email, replace "ks" with "k" and delete "n")

"John Savage" wrote in message
"Fran Higham" writes:
"John Savage" wrote in message
The first step to insulating agriculture against extended periods of
zero
rainfall is to get rid of all hoofed animals from unimproved grazing
land.

Sounds great in theory but unfortunately it is not necessarily true on
the
ground. At least with hoofed animals there is some hope of managing
stocking density: not so with the so-called soft footed natives which, in
current numbers, do a LOT of damage.

When land is carrying more mouths than it can support, regardless of
species, some damage is inevitable. But, just as was done with the pig
and the ox, selective breeding over generations could give us a heavy-set
less-athletic 'roo---more tractable and less flighty---and ultimately more
manageable.

But why would one want to? They taste like shite (unless you get an
extremely young one) and only small sections of them are worth eating IMHO.
They do make good dog food though.

One advantage about farming in a low-rainfall climate, if you
erect good fencing and yards around your few watering holes you could pen
the animals (by remote control, closing the gate via a webcam link?) when
the mob comes to drink. In drier times, anyway.

True, but then again I don't know why anyone would want to do so unless they
ran a dog/cat food factory.

Camels, as someone else suggested might be more useful but then I've never
eaten camel and don't fancy Camel milk either. At current rates it would
seem that the marketing has been successful in one person out of 20 million.
That is not encouraging.

They do tail-docking of lambs and some dogs, and I am wondering about
the result on its speed of tail-docking a roo as a joey. Anyone ever
seen a 'roo without a tail, perhaps as the result of an accident, and
can say how this affected its ability to leap?

They use their tail as a counterweight/balance mechanism in flight and they
use it to push back and rest on during grooming etc. They would have great
difficulties I imagine but could certainly shuffle around a bit - it
wouldn't be something I'd like to see even though they aren't my flavour of
the month at the moment.

Anyway, GM experimentation should soon be able to create the ideal farm
animal for any region!

I can see you've got those pigs fed, suited up and ready for take off.

"John Savage" wrote in message
om...

The first step to insulating agriculture against extended periods of zero
rainfall is to get rid of all hoofed animals from unimproved grazing land.
Hoofed animals pound grassless trails, the start of soil erosion,
along.....
(excellent stuff there!!!!!)


How come we're not doing this? I've heard several politcians and land groups
talk about these sorts of things but nothing ever gets done.

"S.. McLaren" wrote in message
"John Savage" wrote in message
news:021226000090313.26Dec02

The first step to insulating agriculture against extended periods of
zero
rainfall is to get rid of all hoofed animals from unimproved grazing
land.
Hoofed animals pound grassless trails, the start of soil erosion,
along.....
(excellent stuff there!!!!!)


How come we're not doing this? I've heard several politcians and land
groups
talk about these sorts of things but nothing ever gets done.

A few of the reasons why it is not done:

Unimproved grazing land is usually owned or leased by individuals not
governments or land groups. Attitudinally, not too many owners of anything
take kindly to people making suggestions or legislating on something that
will cost the owner's in terms of their money and/or their effort.

Soft footed animals are not seen by anyone who owns or leases unimproved
grazing lands as being harvestable and having a commercial value. Since
owners and leaseholders have invested money they seek a return on investment
so that they can live.

Excluding hoofed animals from unimproved grazing land will do nothing to
bring more rain if there is no rain to fall.

Rainfall or degradation will not improve if stocking rates of soft footed
animals is high as they are themselves are part of the problem.

Land groups and politicians understand that there even in most bad times
there are still huge economic returns from unimproved grazing land that
feeds stock. If these returns do not find their way into regional Australia
from the land owners then the money has to come from somewhere. Regional
Australia is not well these days and Joe Public and Federal and State
governments are not keen to cough up to support services that most
Australians in the Eastern seaboard expect to be available.

"SG1" wrote:
Camels!!! Supply MILK & MEAT

Leather, too, and fibre (maybe we could call it strong wool).
But you know...we'd still need to farm some cattle for gelatin!
--
John Savage (for email, replace "ks" with "k" and delete "n")

In article ,
"SG1" wrote:

Carr's a pinko? I suppose he might look like one to a banana bender.

He IS in the (HARD) Labor party eh?????

Well, John Howard's in the Liberal Party, and he looks pretty conservative to
me!

Carr is in the NSW Right faction. Perhaps you've herd of them. He's on the
nose with unionists, mostly because of the changes that have been put through
in workers' comp. Dunno what his garden's like.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

Once long ago, against her breast, a mother hush'd a babe to rest
Who was the Prince of heav'n above, the Lord of gentleness and love...
John Wheeler, 'The Silver Stars are in the Sky'

"Fran Higham" writes:
"John Savage" wrote in message
and the ox, selective breeding over generations could give us a heavy-set
less-athletic 'roo---more tractable and less flighty---and ultimately more
manageable.

But why would one want to? They taste like shite (unless you get an
extremely young one) and only small sections of them are worth eating IMHO.

Taste is a matter of, well, ..... taste! There was a time when housewives
shunned the mass-produced chicken in favour of their home-reared chook
because of the comparatively bland, tasteless flavour of the former. Now
that the population is accustomed to the cardboard chicken, most would not
find favour in the strongly-flavoured chewy texture of the home-bred chook.
Perhaps we could come to accept a strongly flavoured farmed very dark red
meat? Modified recipes might be in order, making meat but one component of
the meal rather than the central feature. The popularity of our game meat
in Europe (Germany in particular, including it in their sausages), shows
that there are those who value meat with strong flavour. I believe Germany
will take as much game meat as we can export: wild pig, horse, roo, etc.
Didn't the Poms turn to roo meat when that Mad Cow disease scare was
running rampant? I am sure that the collective national taste can adapt,
it just takes time and appropriate encouragement (such as an economical
price). Much has been made of roo meat being healthier because of its
very low fat level. (I think I would take longer than most to adapt to
eating a strongly-flavoured meat, so I understand your misgivings.)

Camels, as someone else suggested might be more useful but then I've never
eaten camel and don't fancy Camel milk either. At current rates it would
seem that the marketing has been successful in one person out of 20 million.
That is not encouraging.

On the contrary. The Islamic world is a vast untapped market! We just need
a whole drove of halal butchers.

They do tail-docking of lambs and some dogs, and I am wondering about
the result on its speed of tail-docking a roo as a joey. Anyone ever
seen a 'roo without a tail, perhaps as the result of an accident, and
can say how this affected its ability to leap?

I wouldn't want to slow them down a lot, as sudden speed from a standing
start is their main defence against the dingo. (Now there's another soft-
footed bundle of edible protein: dog meat. Hmmm ....)

Anyway, GM experimentation should soon be able to create the ideal farm
animal for any region!

I can see you've got those pigs fed, suited up and ready for take off.

We are well advanced in our plans, Fran. Not only is the flock of porcine
fliers fed and kitted out, but they are flapping their little wings and
doing tentative practice jumps into the breeze. First circuits of the
airstrip will happen any day soon. Expect to see marinated pork wings on
your supermarket shelves by next Christmas!!! And remember--you read it
first here.
--
John Savage, keeping under wraps another of his GM projects: a rabbit that
lays eggs! Expect to see it in the news before Easter ....