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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
S. McLaren
 
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Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the "punishment"
whenever it comes?

--
__________________________________
I worship a God who justifies the ungodly.
The Bible, Romans 4:5


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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
David Hare-Scott
 
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Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis


"S. McLaren" wrote in message
...
Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the

"punishment"
whenever it comes?

--


There have been many magic cures proposed to water the dead heart. Send
the water from the east coast back over the mountains to the
Murray-Darling, dig a channel from the ocean up to Lake Eyre.......
nothing that is really feasible. Even if such schemes could be built
are we sure that in the long run the change would be beneficial? Look
at the side effects of parts of the Snowy scheme or of irrigation from
the major rivers - these were all hailed as the best thing since sliced
bread when they were shiny and new.

As for the fires have a look at an aerial map of Sydney, it looks like
an octopus with roads, rail and houses radiating out in a series of arms
along the ridges and bush in the valleys between. The Blue Mountains
are the same in a fish-bone pattern. Short of Agent Orange followed by
concrete how will you stop the fires running through the valleys?

The posturing about more hazard reduction burning is just that. If you
were to perform the level of clearing required to really stop the fires
the outcry would be huge, probably lead by those who suggested the burn
in the first place. Of course the people who choose to build in those
leafy green suburbs, the blocks backing on to the bush are the most
prized, will tell you that when the fires come through it's just really
bad luck. The fact that you cannot get flood insurance if you build on
a flood plain but you can get fire insurance anywhere tells us something
about how well risk has been identified historically.

I think there is more future in learning to live with the land that we
have than trying to transform it to something else. Until we have a
political system that rewards those who take the long view it will be
convenient to blame 'nature' rather than accept that too often we have
made poor decisions about our use of the land. I should live so long.

David


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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
SG1
 
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Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

Shoot the bloody greenies and burn the bush like it is suposed to be.
Remember may Oz plants can't release seed without fire.

"S. McLaren" wrote in message
...
Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the "punishment"
whenever it comes?

--
__________________________________
I worship a God who justifies the ungodly.
The Bible, Romans 4:5




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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
S. McLaren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

"SG1" wrote in message
...
Shoot the bloody greenies and burn the bush like it is suposed to be.
Remember may Oz plants can't release seed without fire.



Personally I thought of flying them to the West Bank and tying them with
signs that say "Suicide Bombers are Murderers" and leaving them in the path
of a Hamas Protest March.


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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
Stephen Oakes
 
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Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis


Shoot the bloody greenies and burn the bush like it is suposed (sic) to

be.

??? Where the hell did that come from? How do the "greenies" cause a lack
of bushfires?

Remember may (sic) Oz (sic) plants can't release seed without fire.


True, but they do not need fire every year.

Personally I thought of flying them to the West Bank and tying them with
signs that say "Suicide Bombers are Murderers" and leaving them in the

path
of a Hamas Protest March.


Good to see we're getting some sensible solutions at last. When we have no
idea, label a group of people as "greenies" or "lefties" or something and
try to portray them as the problem.

Sut beriously, there are solutions, but we're never going to get a
government to implement them while we keep electing the usual politicians.
Oh, and while we label people that care as "greenies", as though it is a
negative.*

* Sigh...yes, I *know* some of them are useless people with no clue, but the
same applies to all groups of people.

--
Stephen Oakes





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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
d
 
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Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

Maybe we should shoot the bloody people who want to live in areas such
as the blue mountains where there is and always will be a fire problem,
because as you rightly point out many australian natives need fire, and
seeing the majority of plants in the blue mountains are eucalypts...
gee its no wonder why theres bushfires in that area

D


"SG1" wrote in
:

Shoot the bloody greenies and burn the bush like it is suposed to be.
Remember may Oz plants can't release seed without fire.

"S. McLaren" wrote in message
...
Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the "punishment"
whenever it comes?

--
__________________________________
I worship a God who justifies the ungodly.
The Bible, Romans 4:5





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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
S. McLaren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

There have been many magic cures proposed to water the dead heart. Send
the water from the east coast back over the mountains to the
Murray-Darling, dig a channel from the ocean up to Lake Eyre.......
nothing that is really feasible. Even if such schemes could be built.....


What about a simple water conservation scheme to start off with? Increase
the tax on water to get people to think twice before they waste water.
(Doesn't it irk you that Transurban uses 1,000,000 litres of fresh water a
day as ballast for their tunnel?)

And encourage people through tax breaks if they install water saving devices
like water tanks or water purification systems.



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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
David Hare-Scott
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis


"S. McLaren" wrote in message
...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

There have been many magic cures proposed to water the dead heart.

Send
the water from the east coast back over the mountains to the
Murray-Darling, dig a channel from the ocean up to Lake Eyre.......
nothing that is really feasible. Even if such schemes could be

built.....

What about a simple water conservation scheme to start off with?

Increase
the tax on water to get people to think twice before they waste water.
(Doesn't it irk you that Transurban uses 1,000,000 litres of fresh

water a
day as ballast for their tunnel?)

And encourage people through tax breaks if they install water saving

devices
like water tanks or water purification systems.




I am all for such simple schemes. Water rates that have a sliding scale
so that the profligate pay more per kilolitre would be a good start.
There would have to be a special hardship clause or shower timers for
those with daughters though :-)

If not tax breaks then at least local gov encouragement and free
information on grey water re-use and owning watertanks would be useful.

My guess was that the original poster had something more of a cure-all
in mind.

David


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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
muser
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

Well I dunno about "solving bushfires" but i think the water usage
problem would be dramatically improved if all new (and replacement)
plumbing systems were compost toilets, worm-farm waste systems and the
like.. imagine those lush green lawns, gardens and vegie patches..
imagine the water saved from non-water using toilets and recycling
shower water into the washing machine etc.

cheers,
aprill

d wrote:
Maybe we should shoot the bloody people who want to live in areas such
as the blue mountains where there is and always will be a fire problem,
because as you rightly point out many australian natives need fire, and
seeing the majority of plants in the blue mountains are eucalypts...
gee its no wonder why theres bushfires in that area

D


"SG1" wrote in
:


Shoot the bloody greenies and burn the bush like it is suposed to be.
Remember may Oz plants can't release seed without fire.

"S. McLaren" wrote in message
...

Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the "punishment"
whenever it comes?

--
__________________________________
I worship a God who justifies the ungodly.
The Bible, Romans 4:5






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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
SG1
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

We have three rainwater tanks. Use it for drinking & cooking and one tank
for the garden & the dogs. Just had water restrictions for 2 weeks now the
local weir is full, 5-8 inches upstream got the waterholes filled and the
Moonie river is now flowing. Giving our good Qld water to the Pinkos (Carr)
in NSW. We have had 30mm so far this month. Regarding usage of water our
allocation is one (1) megalitre (4 1/4 blocks) and we use just over 30% of
that.
Jim
In the middle of a Qld drought

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
u...

"S. McLaren" wrote in message
...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

There have been many magic cures proposed to water the dead heart.

Send
the water from the east coast back over the mountains to the
Murray-Darling, dig a channel from the ocean up to Lake Eyre.......
nothing that is really feasible. Even if such schemes could be

built.....

What about a simple water conservation scheme to start off with?

Increase
the tax on water to get people to think twice before they waste water.
(Doesn't it irk you that Transurban uses 1,000,000 litres of fresh

water a
day as ballast for their tunnel?)

And encourage people through tax breaks if they install water saving

devices
like water tanks or water purification systems.




I am all for such simple schemes. Water rates that have a sliding scale
so that the profligate pay more per kilolitre would be a good start.
There would have to be a special hardship clause or shower timers for
those with daughters though :-)

If not tax breaks then at least local gov encouragement and free
information on grey water re-use and owning watertanks would be useful.

My guess was that the original poster had something more of a cure-all
in mind.

David






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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
S. McLaren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

"muser" wrote in message
...
Well I dunno about "solving bushfires" but i think the water usage
problem would be dramatically improved if all new (and replacement)
plumbing systems were compost toilets, worm-farm waste systems and the
like.. imagine those lush green lawns, gardens and vegie patches..
imagine the water saved from non-water using toilets and recycling
shower water into the washing machine etc.


Hmmm.. that would be really good. I'm all for such "green" measures!

Do any of the farmers here practise the horticultural methods used by the
farmers in Israel? I've read pretty impressive accounts of how they are
surviving in an arid land using very radical water saving measures.



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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
Stephen Oakes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis


Do any of the farmers here practise the horticultural methods used by the
farmers in Israel? I've read pretty impressive accounts of how they are
surviving in an arid land using very radical water saving measures.


No, the farmers here use quite primitive measures (clearing the land,
working it until its topsoil blows away, spraying crops at mid-day, etc.)
but as soon as you start saying such things you are bombarded with diatribes
("Australia needs farmers", "going bankrupt", etc).

Every time we have a drought the politicians and farmers and other
"interested" groups start talking about more progressive methods, but it
soon dies away when profits return.

The sad fact is that farmers can rely on handouts when times are tough.

(I hope this doesn't sound like an attack just on farmers - it should really
be an attack on everyone.)

--
Stephen Oakes



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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
S. McLaren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

"Stephen Oakes" wrote in message
news:RABL9.12187$y17.38565@news-

No, the farmers here use quite primitive measures (clearing the land,
working it until its topsoil blows away, spraying crops at mid-day, etc.)
but as soon as you start saying such things you are bombarded with

diatribes
("Australia needs farmers", "going bankrupt", etc).


I remember watching documentaries criticizing Australian farming practises
back in 1984 when I was in high school. Why haven't they changed or, at
least, the government has tried to encourage them to turn to more efficient
farming methods?

I went for a trip out to the country side recently and was aghast to see
some farmers using their industrial water spraying systems at 1 in the
afternoon.

I fought the temptation to ask them whether they realized that 80% of their
watering is lost due to evaporation.



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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
Chookie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

In article ,
"S. McLaren" wrote:

Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the "punishment"
whenever it comes?


Learn to live with it is the phrase that occurs to me. We know our outback
swings from drought to flooding rains (to coin a phrase) and we need to stock
up on fodder in good seasons, rather than overstocking the land. I have come
across reports of farmers who are only now running out of fodder because this
is a far longer drought than normal, and I think they should be rewarded
somehow for coping so well. We also need to reward the ones who reduce their
water consumption and put in erosion-proofing measures (fencing and
reafforesting streams and so on. Some of the ideas from permaculture would
probably be very helpful.

Given that most of the fires around Sydney seem to be started by arsonists, we
need to work out some way to catch them. I have no idea how we'd do this.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

Once long ago, against her breast, a mother hush'd a babe to rest
Who was the Prince of heav'n above, the Lord of gentleness and love...
John Wheeler, 'The Silver Stars are in the Sky'
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Old 05-04-2003, 07:34 AM
Dissent
 
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Default Solving the Drought and Bushfire crisis

S. McLaren wrote:

Is there a credible solution to the drought and bushfire problems we
experience regularly?

Or is it a situation of simply sucking it in and taking the
"punishment" whenever it comes?


Get the "cowboy" element out of the Bushfire Brigade. Never have I
seen such a large number of social misfits gathered in one place.
I'm getting a little tired of how the media portay these people as
"hero's"...Did anyone see the melted bushfire truck that Channel 9
constantly used as a backdrop for all their shots? I think it was at
Glenorie. The volunteers in the truck were constantly referred to as
"hero's"....Hero's? How the hell can you call them hero's? They
nearly killed themselves through stupidity and wrote off a perfectly
good fire truck that could have been used to save someone else,s
property!

It's true that a small minority of these people are the bravest men
and women you could ever come acrooss. But the majority just love all
the media attention, the riding in trucks with elbows resting out the
window, the wipe of a sweaty brow when the SKY camera's are on....
etc, etc. Living in Heathcote I've seen it first hand. I've seen one
group laughing, joking, eating sandwiches and drinking coca cola and
then when the cameras show up they all lay on the ground and look
dejected...LOL...It would be the funniest thing I've ever seen if
these people werent playing with peoples lives|homes...


My suggestion is to remove the volunteer element from the bushfire
brigade. Make it a full time paid job where u have to sit an entrance
exam similar to the NSWFB, then a demanding physical, etc. It's the
only way. Think about it. If a scrawny, pimply faced girl runs up to
your front door in a blind panic screaming at you to evacuate are you
really going to do it? I know that I wouldn't......yet that was their
evacuation proceedure last xmas....Pathetic.



--
Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, hypocrisy, brutality,
the elite.... All of which are American dreams......

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