Len i borrowed a book from a neighbour who's a real green thumb, it has an
interesting section about aphids which backs up a lot of what you said about
the ants-aphids relationship. here's a few snippets ...

"As they feed, aphids excude a sticky honeydew that attracts ants who feed
on it. Ants like honeydew so much that they take aphids hostage and make
them produce honeydew. Look for columns of ants marching around plants and
you will find aphids."
"This pest transports bacteria, fungi and viruses - more than any other
source. Destructive sooty mould also grows on honeydew."
"Any aphid control must also control ants if they are present."

"Most aphids have no wings, but those who do have wings about four times the
size of their bodies"
"Aphids give birth to mainly live female larvae, without mating and can pump
out 3-100 hungry larvae every day. Each female reproduces between 40 and 100
offspring that start reproducing soon after birth"

Control ...
"Manually remove small numbers. Spot spray small infestations. Control ants.
Introduce predators if problem is persistent."

Biological controls ...
"Lacewings (chrysoperla species) are the most effective available predators
for aphids. Release 1 to 20 lacewings per plant"
"Ladybugs also work well to exterminate aphids. Adults are easily obtained
at many retail nurseries during the summer months. Release about 50 ladybugs
per plant."
"Verticillium lecanni (fungus) available under the trade name of Vertalec is
very aphid specific and effective"
"Control ants by mixing borax hand soap or borax powder with powdered sugar.
Ants eat the sweet mix and the borax kills them. They excrete sweet borax
mix in the nest, which other ants eat and die."

thanks dave,

that is how i have known it for a very long time now, and like most
agrdeners way back when i didn't know i had heaps of problems and with
scale and mealies as well even with mealies fully infesting roots of
potted palms all due to ants who i kindly ignored. but not now so long
as the ants do their thing away from our plants we can live togther.

back in the bad old days of having plenty of water to use when i found
the offending ant nest i would set up a drip over them for a few days
they usually moved on to someone elses garden.

can't understand why it was me that came under the microscope over
this f1 obviously may not have beena round the traps, i almost
exclusively only pass on what i have done myself though i have not
invented any of it, it is knowledge gained form other gardeners along
the line.

w have some bait mixes featured on our remedies page.


On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:40:23 +0800, "Dave -Turner"
wrote:
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.gardenlen.com

"gardenlen" wrote in message

can't understand why it was me that came under the microscope over
this f1 obviously may not have beena round the traps, i almost
exclusively only pass on what i have done myself though i have not
invented any of it, it is knowledge gained form other gardeners
along
the line.

Len, I've known you for years and I've told you on several ocassions
who I am but you obviously haven't bothered to remember. I'd ask you
to give my regards to Bev but you obviously don't have a clue who I
am.

I explained to you why you "came under the microscope" but it doesnt'
suit you to take it on board. Nothing new there.

But I will add that your comment that REALLY ****ed me off was:
"well i guess farm1 you can believe the book which mainly only deal
with chemicals to control things and never look for the root cause."

If you had bothered to remember who I am, or read what I wrote in
earlier posts on this subject, you'd have been able to figure out that
I am into biological controls.

It was a good attempt at an insult and one which obviously slid right
by the other posters. I know the show you put on for the audience but
your disingenuous act is, after all these years, finally wearing
rather thin of late.

g'day farm1,

sorry that i can't recall our past interludes, as i have had health
problems over the past 8 years or so that cause me that, and one of
themain reason i devised my web interest to try and overcome, but like
all things on line if i am not practising all the time i forget but
that's not an excuse from me.

i am sorry you took this to heart i have had lots of stuff directed at
me over the years but at the end of the day it is all so much water
under the bridge. i didn't take your attack on me as a personnal
attack and as is the want of the net anonimity protects us all it is
just how we handle the privelage, we all ahve the right to post an
opposing view point but until now i ahve never pointed that opposing
view at the other poster, preffering to let the readers decide.

but aphids and ants as i have known it for over a decade now go
together, now you had the right to post your opinion to the original
poster but you targetted my name in your initial reply, and i
responded but i don't think in a derogitory way, after all you used my
name in vane first.

oh i did take on board your opposing view and that would have been as
far as it went had you not taken it upon yourself to target me, as
what i was passing on was common knowledge among a good many gardening
threads.

as i said earlier if my memory was what it use to be long ago it would
have been no bother at all to remember you, i have this problem where
i respond to a user name but even on a regular basis never remember
their real names that is just how it is with me.

as i am aware i don't think i tried to insult but if you read it that
way there is naught i can do about it, being online isn't about
persoannal attacks though over the years i have borne the brunt of
them for why i may never fully know but i have let it slide, but here
i was passing on solid information as i always will .

rather thin of late i don't understand?? this is one of the rare
occassions in app 8 years online that a post has led to this with me.
and as there are so very few occassions to get invoilved in posts in
this group of late i certainly can't remember any of controversy.

so if you have a good memory for names you are very lucky, and if you
take this as a personnal attack then i don't know??



On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:26:07 +1000, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.gardenlen.com

"gardenlen" wrote in message
g'day farm1,

sorry that i can't recall our past interludes, as i have had health
problems over the past 8 years

Been there done that! 2 bouts of primary cancer in the last 4 years.
Lots of exposure to what later became known as "Agent Orange" as a
child may or may not be the cause, but is no doubt the reason why I
try to remain an organic gardener.

but aphids and ants as i have known it for over a decade now go
together, now you had the right to post your opinion to the original
poster but you targetted my name in your initial reply, and i
responded but i don't think in a derogitory way, after all you used
my
name in vane first.

You have a selective memory Len. My first reply to you was to say
that ants weren't the cause of aphids and that I thought you were
mixing up aphids and scale insect.

You replied and made a lot of incorrect statements and then Jen said
that she'd read that ants farm aphids. You then replied to her and
wrote
"that is why i can't understand the statement made by a previous
poster".

That comment targeted me specifically and you did it first. I again
replied with an opposing view and stated that you were wrong about
aphids not having wings and gave 2 cites for you to look up then you
made your crack about books and chemicals. A quite specific and
deliberate insult and again it came from you first before I finally
decided I'd had enough. From then on I got cross. The thread is
there as proof.

oh i did take on board your opposing view and that would have been
as
far as it went had you not taken it upon yourself to target me, as
what i was passing on was common knowledge among a good many
gardening
threads.

You keep saying that Len but you don't really just think I have an
opposing view. You just do not believe that it is possible to have
aphids and no sign of ants and you have gone on and on about how there
must be ants.

I do not have and have never had ants on my rose bushes. I patrol my
roses in Spring wiht a military fervour and I knwo that I only get
aphids every year for a couple of weeks and NEVER, EVER ants. The
wrens clear the aphids off and they don't come back. If, according to
you, I had ants, the aphids would be back.

rather thin of late i don't understand?? this is one of the rare
occassions in app 8 years online that a post has led to this with
me.
and as there are so very few occassions to get invoilved in posts in
this group of late i certainly can't remember any of controversy.

Farm1 is not the only name I've ever used and I have read you and
remember you and many other interchanges with others from many
different newsgroups and we have in the past exchanged lots of private
e-mails.

gardenlen wrote:
as i am aware i don't think i tried to insult but if you read it that
way there is naught i can do about it, being online isn't about
persoannal attacks though over the years i have borne the brunt of
them for why i may never fully know but i have let it slide, but here
i was passing on solid information as i always will .

I had a look at Farm1's profile, and almost without exception his
posts are combative. The word "troll" springs to mind...

wrote:

...and almost without exception his
posts are combative.


Hey, I thought that, too but I thought maybe it was just me reading them
the wrong way.

wrote in message

gardenlen wrote:
as i am aware i don't think i tried to insult but if you read it
that
way there is naught i can do about it, being online isn't about
persoannal attacks though over the years i have borne the brunt of
them for why i may never fully know but i have let it slide, but
here
i was passing on solid information as i always will .

I had a look at Farm1's profile, and almost without exception his
posts are combative. The word "troll" springs to mind...

But then you didn't bother to notice which groups those posts were in
or read the threads did you?

Farm1 wrote:
wrote in message
I had a look at Farm1's profile, and almost without exception his
posts are combative. The word "troll" springs to mind...

But then you didn't bother to notice which groups those posts were in
or read the threads did you?

I did, yes.

wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:
wrote in message
I had a look at Farm1's profile, and almost without exception
his
posts are combative. The word "troll" springs to mind...

But then you didn't bother to notice which groups those posts were
in
or read the threads did you?

I did, yes.

If you had done as you say, you'd know that I have posted in many
newsgroups for years and that I have many thousands of posts that can
all be seen on google groups.

I think you just bothered to read a few posts at google groups using
my current name, there are only about 900 current posts. It would
have been impossible for you to do all but a cursory glance at a few
current posts or to follow all of the name changes in so short a time.

After so many years of posting, you should be able to figure out that
I know all of the other regualar posters and we, as a continuing
community, have formed all sorts of alliances and friendships both in
the ngs and by e-mail. We don't just talk about one topic and nor do
we always agree even though we may be friends. Newsgroups are just
the same as any real life form of community and if you always agree or
like everyone that you meet then you are "a better man than I am Gunga
Din". I don't in real life and I don't claim to online either.