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Old 09-03-2007, 11:17 PM posted to aus.gardens
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"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:


right. after a bit of back-and-forthing, yeomans have sent me their
catalogue, and various other burblings. i'm a bit horrified that they are
pro-nuclear. and also a bit horrified about other spelling mistakes
(actual
mistakes) in their leaflets - but let's not go there again. perhaps i am
also horrified that, for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions
(albeit badly-spelled ;-).


I find some of the opinions of the Diggers Club a bit horrific
(particularly
the nonsense they talk about native plants), but I still buy their seeds.


oh, i agree (if you're talking about their tendency to dismiss "native
plants" almost entirely out of hand!!! it's pretty outrageous).

but digger's don't undermine themselves in a breezily scary way - it's more
a preference & gardeners know their own preferences, so i suppose i feel
that doesn't matter in my own relationship with digger's. digger's don't
suggest for example that nuclear energy is not only economic for australia,
but that we can dump nuclear waste "in the titanic"(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

i'm starting to wonder if the yeomans family aren't just crazy hillfolk with
engineering degrees. (who won't just use their dictionaries.)
kylie



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Old 09-03-2007, 11:34 PM posted to aus.gardens
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"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message
...

I can hear the delightful (gag!) Christopher Pyne pontificating in the
background on TV and already I'm soooooo sick of vaudeville that I'll be
incredibly relieved when the Fed election is finally over. How any
electorate could send him to Parliament is beyond me - must be a majority
of total Wallies in his electorate.


i see that your reading of my post was ruined by the presence of christopher
pyne on lateline g.

I also have real thing about spelling mistakes and especially ones from
organisation that should be capable of doing a better job. It' so
sloppily unprofessional.


that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's mind.

But having said that, I have heard lots of good reports of
the Yeomans Plows (gag again!)


to the utterly uninformed eye, they seem very flexible! and i do like that
idea of ripping without turning (which obviously isn't a new idea).

for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions


God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of
voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous.


i think they are ready to soil their frilly knickers.

did you see p. costello the other night? it took us 1/2 hour to work out
what the hell was wrong with him. eventually dh hit upon it - he was acting
exactly like john clarke impersonating p. costello. it was _surreal_. creepy
though he can be, i don't mind p. costello as he has that saving grace - a
sense of humour, but i think maybe paul keating was right - he's all tip &
no iceberg now. tee hee.

So what is it you don't understand. Not that I can necessarily help you
but their may be some comfort in mutual ignorance.


i can't even seem to work out what a "coulter" is!

I've asked them to send me their "RED BOOK" but that was some time ago now
and the sodding thing still hasn't arrived. Now that the rain ahs arrived
we need to get moving on a suitable plough to fit our tractor's capacity.


if you would like mine, i would be happy to send it as i have doubts it's
any use to me - i just don't need that sort of scale & i think i must have
thought they'd have some sort of tiny all-in-one object for the smaller
user. they got it to me in a couple of days, very efficient.

let me know if you would like it.
kylie


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Old 10-03-2007, 04:12 AM posted to aus.gardens
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God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of
voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. I wish
he'd shut up or the anchor person would put an apple in his mouth before
roasting him.



I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some
desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions that
they think are *very* original....whereas ABC journos just love making the
pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go off
and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed by
him...


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Old 10-03-2007, 07:19 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message


I can hear the delightful (gag!) Christopher Pyne pontificating in the
background


i see that your reading of my post was ruined by the presence of
christopher pyne on lateline g.


Yup! I'm only glad I was in another room and didn't actually listen to
anything he said. My rather large blundstone might otherwise have put a
hole in the TV.

I also have real thing about spelling mistakes and especially ones from
organisation that should be capable of doing a better job. It' so
sloppily unprofessional.


that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's
mind.


I must admit that I don't mind oddball opinions if it's not opinions being
foisted on me by politicians who actually have to power to impact on my
life. I might argue strongly against them but I find that they make me
think about why I don't like them so I think they are often a good brain
tester.

But having said that, I have heard lots of good reports of
the Yeomans Plows (gag again!)


to the utterly uninformed eye, they seem very flexible! and i do like that
idea of ripping without turning (which obviously isn't a new idea).


In agricultural terms I think it was new to this country and given that they
also export to the US, I think they were certainly there in the earliest of
days. If you read the Yeoman's books you'll se what I mean. I know there
are at least some chapters available online if not the whole of the first
book.

Yeomans was the equivalent of the Peter Andrews (of natural sequence farming
fame) of his day.

You may also be interested in the Potter Farms in Victoria of you need to
regenerate farming land.

i think they are ready to soil their frilly knickers.


Yup. They are starting to ask to be called by their first name these days.
amazing how and election can know off their arrogance.

did you see p. costello the other night? it took us 1/2 hour to work out
what the hell was wrong with him. eventually dh hit upon it - he was
acting exactly like john clarke impersonating p. costello. it was
_surreal_. creepy though he can be, i don't mind p. costello as he has
that saving grace - a sense of humour, but i think maybe paul keating was
right - he's all tip & no iceberg now. tee hee.


I actually don't find Costello creepy at all. The real problem for many
pollies is that they are very differnt in the flesh than they appear on the
box or in the 10 second grabs on the radio. He is a very decent human being
(with that good sense of humour you mentioned) and I could cope with the
Libs being in govt if he was at the helm (except I do have some concerns
given that he was the legal eagle involved in the infamous Dollar Sweets
court case). He isn't up himself like some. I also like Bronwyn Bishop.
Pity she gets such undeserved bad press - she actually has a conscience.

But I agree with Keating. Since Costello didn't make his run when he last
threatened to, he won't now have a chance.

So what is it you don't understand. Not that I can necessarily help you
but their may be some comfort in mutual ignorance.


i can't even seem to work out what a "coulter" is!


Its the cutting bit. Probably best to show you a pic so look at:
http://www.unibar.com.au/products/ag/ub44-900.html
It's the round discs in front of the shanks.

I've asked them to send me their "RED BOOK" but that was some time ago
now and the sodding thing still hasn't arrived. Now that the rain ahs
arrived we need to get moving on a suitable plough to fit our tractor's
capacity.


if you would like mine, i would be happy to send it as i have doubts it's
any use to me - i just don't need that sort of scale & i think i must have
thought they'd have some sort of tiny all-in-one object for the smaller
user. they got it to me in a couple of days, very efficient.

let me know if you would like it.


Thanks for the offer but since I've already asked them for it, I'm probably
in the system somewhere - I mailed them so I might just have to do as you
did and go online if it's not here in a couple of days.


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Old 10-03-2007, 07:25 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"meee" wrote in message

God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of
voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. I wish
he'd shut up or the anchor person would put an apple in his mouth before
roasting him.



I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some
desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions that
they think are *very* original....


I think that describing the people on the commercial channels as being
"journos" is far too complimentary. They arent' a journo's bootstraps to my
way of thinking.

whereas ABC journos just love making the
pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go
off and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed by
him...


I think the woman on Lateline is even better than Kerry. She is so
smilingly polite and charming and laughs with them but then won't let them
off the hook till they actually answer the question that she asked them.
They squirm and prevaricate but each time she brings them right back and
eventually gets an answer out of them. Don't know her name, but she will go
far is she doesn't move over to a commercial channel.




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Old 10-03-2007, 12:22 PM posted to aus.gardens
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"Stuart Naylor" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:25:42 +1100, "FarmI" [email protected] be given
wrote:

"meee" wrote in message

I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some
desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions
that
they think are *very* original....


whereas ABC journos just love making the
pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go
off and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed
by
him...


I think the woman on Lateline is even better than Kerry. She is so
smilingly polite and charming and laughs with them but then won't let them
off the hook till they actually answer the question that she asked them.
They squirm and prevaricate but each time she brings them right back and
eventually gets an answer out of them. Don't know her name, but she will
go
far is she doesn't move over to a commercial channel.


I've never watched Lateline because it comes on too late for me.
But one talented ABC personality left Melbourne ABC Radio and took up
a position in morning radio ABC Sydney and is now on Lateline.
Was she blonde or dark haired, were you thinking of Virginia Trioli?


Dark hair but I don't think I've ever caught her name, I've just noticed how
good she is, extremely charming and appears to be so quite naturally which
tends to lull them into a false sense of security that she'll have not
noticed that they didn't answer the question but she's like a terrier and
doesn't let them off the hook at all. Very talented and a very good mind.


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Old 10-03-2007, 11:43 PM posted to aus.gardens
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"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message
...
"meee" wrote in message

God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of
voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. I wish
he'd shut up or the anchor person would put an apple in his mouth before
roasting him.



I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some
desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions that
they think are *very* original....


I think that describing the people on the commercial channels as being
"journos" is far too complimentary. They arent' a journo's bootstraps to
my way of thinking.


Too true. Probably graduates of the aAustralian school of Film and TV....


whereas ABC journos just love making the
pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go
off and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed
by him...


I think the woman on Lateline is even better than Kerry. She is so
smilingly polite and charming and laughs with them but then won't let them
off the hook till they actually answer the question that she asked them.
They squirm and prevaricate but each time she brings them right back and
eventually gets an answer out of them. Don't know her name, but she will
go far is she doesn't move over to a commercial channel.

Where she's have a career of, oh, five years......SBS is also good.


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Old 11-03-2007, 09:46 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message
...
I've never watched Lateline because it comes on too late for me.
But one talented ABC personality left Melbourne ABC Radio and took up
a position in morning radio ABC Sydney and is now on Lateline.
Was she blonde or dark haired, were you thinking of Virginia Trioli?


Dark hair but I don't think I've ever caught her name, I've just noticed
how good she is, extremely charming and appears to be so quite naturally
which tends to lull them into a false sense of security that she'll have
not noticed that they didn't answer the question but she's like a terrier
and doesn't let them off the hook at all. Very talented and a very good
mind.


ya, it was virginia trioli last friday. i'm not sure if she'll always be
there or if it's temporary - i adored maxine mckew passionately & so i can't
really accept anyone else of a friday :-)

but, all things must change.
kylie


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Old 11-03-2007, 10:12 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message
...
that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's
mind.


I must admit that I don't mind oddball opinions if it's not opinions being
foisted on me by politicians who actually have to power to impact on my
life. I might argue strongly against them but I find that they make me
think about why I don't like them so I think they are often a good brain
tester.


i should probably rephrase that, as i don't mind oddball opinions either in
fact. well, i'm sure i object to some of them.

what i object to is oddball bits within an otherwise non-oddball system of
belief/thought/argument.

e.g.: there's nothing oddball about espousing ripping systems to regenerate
soil and doing various things to promote soil health nor the idea that soil
health is the key to saving us all. BUT, if within that system of thought
the yeomans are _also_ espousing nuclear energy as part of the system when
we all know it cannot be made economic for 30- 50 years; advocating
broad-scale clearing (because they've decided carbon sequestration into
soil, rather than or as well as trees is the key); and making bizarre claims
such as that nuclear waste has a 90% breakdown within 50 years when no other
person (e.g. nuclear scientists) say any such thing (even most plastics
don't break down that fast!). the first example makes no sense - it's
totally uneconomic; any benefit would simply be too slow and any potential
advantage is tainted by the question of what to do with the waste (obviously
"we" can't just "put it in the titanic"). the second example is daft because
even if carbon sequestration into soil is "better" than into trees, trees
clearly have many other uses other than as carbon sinks. and afaik, the
third claim is simply wrong. i could give other examples but i'm concerned
i'm just whingeing :-) the whacko booklet is quite recent but is already out
of date, that would be one problem (e.g. no mention of geothermal energy).

so yeah, people can be oddball & that's fine, but if they're promoting a
system, the whole system has to be consistent & logical on its own terms.

In agricultural terms I think it was new to this country and given that
they also export to the US, I think they were certainly there in the
earliest of days. If you read the Yeoman's books you'll se what I mean.
I know there are at least some chapters available online if not the whole
of the first book.

Yeomans was the equivalent of the Peter Andrews (of natural sequence
farming fame) of his day.


mm, but ripping-without-turning was/is entirely promoted in australia by the
permies, i thought(?) not to put too fine a point on it, the yeomans are
pretty obscure. if they stuck to their part (making machinery for those
types of ends) without telling everyone to chop down trees and go nuclear &
that there's "no point" in anyone saving energy(!), maybe things would be
different! (similar to my gripe about the biodynamic set ;-)

I actually don't find Costello creepy at all.


i find his love affair with those hillsong snots to be very, very creepy and
dubious. other than that, and most of his politics and policies, i don't
have a problem with him :-)

The real problem for many
pollies is that they are very differnt in the flesh than they appear on
the box or in the 10 second grabs on the radio. He is a very decent human
being (with that good sense of humour you mentioned) and I could cope with
the Libs being in govt if he was at the helm


i'd prefer it, to tell you the truth. i think that moment came last year,
was not taken up, & there's going to be a few people sorry that it didn't
happen.

(except I do have some concerns
given that he was the legal eagle involved in the infamous Dollar Sweets
court case). He isn't up himself like some. I also like Bronwyn Bishop.
Pity she gets such undeserved bad press - she actually has a conscience.


i think she's a bitch from hell who also plays the man but not the ball in a
humourless evil way, but then again i rather like amanda vanstone for her
forthrightness, which makes people fall off their chairs sometimes when i
say that :-)

Its the cutting bit. Probably best to show you a pic so look at:
http://www.unibar.com.au/products/ag/ub44-900.html
It's the round discs in front of the shanks.


heavens, i thought those were wheels of some kind.

Thanks for the offer but since I've already asked them for it, I'm
probably in the system somewhere - I mailed them so I might just have to
do as you did and go online if it's not here in a couple of days.


have a moan at them about their terrible spelling - it makes them sit up &
take notice ;-)
kylie


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Old 11-03-2007, 11:20 AM posted to aus.gardens
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In article ,
"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote:

Have you used Eden seeds at all?


No -- are they less, um, forthright than Clive Blazey?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue


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Old 15-03-2007, 06:13 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message
...
that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's
mind.


I must admit that I don't mind oddball opinions if it's not opinions
being foisted on me by politicians who actually have to power to impact
on my life. I might argue strongly against them but I find that they
make me think about why I don't like them so I think they are often a
good brain tester.


i should probably rephrase that, as i don't mind oddball opinions either
in fact. well, i'm sure i object to some of them.

what i object to is oddball bits within an otherwise non-oddball system of
belief/thought/argument.

e.g.: there's nothing oddball about espousing ripping systems to
regenerate soil and doing various things to promote soil health nor the
idea that soil health is the key to saving us all. BUT, if within that
system of thought the yeomans are _also_ espousing nuclear energy as part
of the system when we all know it cannot be made economic for 30- 50
years; advocating broad-scale clearing (because they've decided carbon
sequestration into soil, rather than or as well as trees is the key); and
making bizarre claims such as that nuclear waste has a 90% breakdown
within 50 years when no other person (e.g. nuclear scientists) say any
such thing (even most plastics don't break down that fast!). the first
example makes no sense - it's totally uneconomic; any benefit would simply
be too slow and any potential advantage is tainted by the question of what
to do with the waste (obviously "we" can't just "put it in the titanic").
the second example is daft because even if carbon sequestration into soil
is "better" than into trees, trees clearly have many other uses other than
as carbon sinks. and afaik, the third claim is simply wrong. i could give
other examples but i'm concerned i'm just whingeing :-) the whacko booklet
is quite recent but is already out of date, that would be one problem
(e.g. no mention of geothermal energy).


Just got home from a few days away travelling and the Yeoman's Red Book has
arrived - not yet had time to do more then flip through it - saw the
coulters you mentioned! Was it the Red Book you received from them? Look
forward to looking for their wacky ideas.

so yeah, people can be oddball & that's fine, but if they're promoting a
system, the whole system has to be consistent & logical on its own terms.


Not sure I'd agree with that. Some parts of systems can be good whilst
others parts of a system may be totally impractical, not working, a total
loon idea etc - depends on the system. But will look at the yeomans in a
systems light before saying more.

In agricultural terms I think it was new to this country and given that
they also export to the US, I think they were certainly there in the
earliest of days. If you read the Yeoman's books you'll se what I mean.
I know there are at least some chapters available online if not the whole
of the first book.

Yeomans was the equivalent of the Peter Andrews (of natural sequence
farming fame) of his day.


mm, but ripping-without-turning was/is entirely promoted in australia by
the permies, i thought(?)


Yeoman's has been around much longer then permaculture - wouldn't surprise
me if the permies got the idea from Yeoman's to beging with.

not to put too fine a point on it, the yeomans are
pretty obscure.


Not in agricultural terms where Yeomans is quite well known. In agri terms,
it is the permies who are considered to be tree hugging loons by the more
unenlightened agribods.

if they stuck to their part (making machinery for those
types of ends) without telling everyone to chop down trees and go nuclear
& that there's "no point" in anyone saving energy(!), maybe things would
be different! (similar to my gripe about the biodynamic set ;-)


ZI guess it's like most things in life - we need to take from it the bits we
like, experiment with them and themn either tweak them, live with them or
abandon them.

I actually don't find Costello creepy at all.


i find his love affair with those hillsong snots to be very, very creepy
and dubious.


Yup. But then if you look at politics in its entirety over a long time
frame, you'll find that the recent tilt to the right (both religion and in
terms of the drys vs the wets) just about all of the would be players are
flirting with religion. Not only that but the house is now infested with
religious groups who meet for regular prayer fests. Dunno whatever happened
to the idea of "representation". If they were truly representative, most of
them would be heathens like the rest of us.

other than that, and most of his politics and policies, i don't
have a problem with him :-)

The real problem for many
pollies is that they are very differnt in the flesh than they appear on
the box or in the 10 second grabs on the radio. He is a very decent
human being (with that good sense of humour you mentioned) and I could
cope with the Libs being in govt if he was at the helm


i'd prefer it, to tell you the truth. i think that moment came last year,
was not taken up, & there's going to be a few people sorry that it didn't
happen.

(except I do have some concerns
given that he was the legal eagle involved in the infamous Dollar Sweets
court case). He isn't up himself like some. I also like Bronwyn Bishop.
Pity she gets such undeserved bad press - she actually has a conscience.


i think she's a bitch from hell who also plays the man but not the ball in
a humourless evil way,


Well from now on, watch her and actually lsiten to what she says. She is
not humorous, but she is even handed in whom she gives a serve to and most
(but not all in common with all of them) of what she says is worth listening
to. She gave a serve to Howard recently on childcare ("he is a man!") and
she was quite right again in being even handed about who got what.

but then again i rather like amanda vanstone for her
forthrightness, which makes people fall off their chairs sometimes when i
say that :-)


Which says more about them than it does you. Amanda has at least 3 really
shitty jobs now that I can recall without even thinking about it, and she
has handled them all reasonably well. When she has cleaned up the shit in
all of those jobs, Howard has rewarded her by moving her to another shitty
job, putting one of his toadies in her place and finally giving her the sack
and promoting more toadies. He's not loyal, but then I guess Amamda could
expect no more - she's too much of a wet for his very dry tastes.

Thanks for the offer but since I've already asked them for it, I'm
probably in the system somewhere - I mailed them so I might just have to
do as you did and go online if it's not here in a couple of days.


have a moan at them about their terrible spelling - it makes them sit up &
take notice ;-)


Will do when I get to it.


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Old 15-03-2007, 06:14 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"Chookie" wrote in message
"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote:

Have you used Eden seeds at all?


No -- are they less, um, forthright than Clive Blazey?


:-)) I suspect so as I've never, ever seen anything from them or about them
except for the excellent list of seeds they produce.


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Old 18-03-2007, 10:40 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message
...
Just got home from a few days away travelling and the Yeoman's Red Book
has arrived - not yet had time to do more then flip through it - saw the
coulters you mentioned! Was it the Red Book you received from them? Look
forward to looking for their wacky ideas.


no - the red book is their catalogue, yes? the Wacky Ideas were in a
seperate pamphlet (of which i received two). i thought the yeomans would
enjoy the idea that i'm using the pamplets in a sheet compost, thus
improving my soil g.

Yeoman's has been around much longer then permaculture - wouldn't surprise
me if the permies got the idea from Yeoman's to beging with.


they certainly got their ideas from someone nutty.
/runs away from the angry permies now chasing me with torches and pitchforks

in fact, my newest digger's catalogue mentions wossisname yeomans. perhaps
their day is coming!!!!!

Yup. But then if you look at politics in its entirety over a long time
frame, you'll find that the recent tilt to the right (both religion and in
terms of the drys vs the wets) just about all of the would be players are
flirting with religion. Not only that but the house is now infested with
religious groups who meet for regular prayer fests. Dunno whatever
happened to the idea of "representation". If they were truly
representative, most of them would be heathens like the rest of us.


amen!!

Well from now on, watch her and actually lsiten to what she says.


no way man. she frightens me.

kylie


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Old 19-03-2007, 11:36 AM posted to aus.gardens
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"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message


Was it the Red Book you received from them? Look forward to looking
for their wacky ideas.


no - the red book is their catalogue, yes?


Yes

the Wacky Ideas were in a
seperate pamphlet (of which i received two). i thought the yeomans would
enjoy the idea that i'm using the pamplets in a sheet compost, thus
improving my soil g.


Didn't get to read their wackie ideas - didn't get the pamphlet.

Yeoman's has been around much longer then permaculture - wouldn't surprise
me if the permies got the idea from Yeoman's to beging with.


they certainly got their ideas from someone nutty.
/runs away from the angry permies now chasing me with torches and
pitchforks


I really can't understand your antipathy to permaculture Otter, much of it
works well - in fact ost of the ideas that I've tried have.

in fact, my newest digger's catalogue mentions wossisname yeomans. perhaps
their day is coming!!!!!


Perhaps it's just that the regular gardening world is finally beginning to
discover the wider world of agriculture????

Well from now on, watch her and actually lsiten to what she says.


no way man. she frightens me.


She's actually very charming. Pity it doesn't come through in 10 second
grabs.


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Old 19-03-2007, 11:03 PM posted to aus.gardens
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"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote in message
...

I really can't understand your antipathy to permaculture Otter, much of it
works well - in fact ost of the ideas that I've tried have.


i'm a pest, aren't i :-(

much of my bias stems from badly-written books & the fact that the permies
who used to live here managed to do so many incomprehensible and
badly-thought-out things which i now must undo on my own time.

i am aware that my bias is purely a bias.

in fact, my newest digger's catalogue mentions wossisname yeomans.
perhaps their day is coming!!!!!


Perhaps it's just that the regular gardening world is finally beginning to
discover the wider world of agriculture????


i actually think that the mass-soil-improvement idea is one whose time has
come!! so good on cranky clive for mentioning it and spreading the word. it
would go both ways though - agriculturalists could learn a great deal from
good gardeners (not me, obviously ;-)

She's actually very charming. Pity it doesn't come through in 10 second
grabs.


i am clearly insensible to whatever charm she has to offer, so i am more
than happy to agree to disagree :-)
kylie




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