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Old 23-03-2007, 11:25 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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In article ,
Chookie wrote:

In article , "Ally" wrote:

You story reminds me of the audit done at my kids child care centre. All of
the trees were cut down and replaced with shadecloth because it was decided
that they may drop limbs.


sigh

There are a known range of gums that do this -- Lemon-Scented Gum, for
example. But they don't do it wihtout a reason AFAIK. It's a response to
stress -- drop a limb to have more water/nutrients for the rest of the tree.
Keep the tree unstressed and it is fine.


We had a bigish lemon scented gum in our backyard when we moved in 4
years ago. As the drought has progressed, it's branches started dying
off and I started chopping them off before they fell on the kids. Now
it only has a couple of branches and it looks really stupid in the
middle of the yard with a big trunk and not much else. I was just about
ready to chop it down when it started raining again and now those couple
of branches are all leafy again. I might chop it down anyway and plant
something more suitable as I'm pretty sure this is only a break in the
drought, not the end of it. Any suggestions for a nice shade tree for
the courtyard (space is about 6m X 6m where the current tree stands)?
I'd prefer something with a non-invasive root system as there is a city
sewer pipe down there under the yard.

eggs.

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Old 23-03-2007, 01:07 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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In article ,
eggs wrote:

I might chop it down anyway and plant
something more suitable as I'm pretty sure this is only a break in the
drought, not the end of it. Any suggestions for a nice shade tree for
the courtyard (space is about 6m X 6m where the current tree stands)?
I'd prefer something with a non-invasive root system as there is a city
sewer pipe down there under the yard.


There's no such thing as a non-invasive root system. What you need are the
new sewer pipes, not the old terracotta ones. In general, no trees should be
planted within 5m of a sewer line.

You'd probably need to work out if you only want summer shade or if you'd
prefer light cover all year round. Which way does it face?

Possibilities:
Deciduous
Crepe myrtle
Mulberry
FLowering prunus (or even a multigrafted stone-fruit tree)
Silk tree (Albizia julibrissin)
Quince (the fruiting kind, not the flowering quince)
Frangipani

Evergreen
Bull banksia
Australian frangipani (Hymenosporum flavum)
Willow myrtle (Agonis flexuosa, but it may have had a recent name change)
NSW CHristmas bush
Melaleuca linariifolia
Tree wisteria
Bauhinia
Olive
A wattle would grow fast if you want shade in the next few years.


YOu could also consider putting up a pergola and growing a creeper -- no
problems with roots then. Passionfruit for all-year shade, Chinese star
jasmine for light shade, a grape vine if you want something deciduous.

HTH,

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue
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Old 23-03-2007, 03:36 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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eggs wrote:

I'd prefer something with a non-invasive root system as there is a city
sewer pipe down there under the yard.


Its the water board/sydney water's problem, not yours. My gum tree (our
5 gum trees) were all there before the sewer main went through. Once in
20 years they have been out to a blockage that might have been our gums.
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Old 23-03-2007, 07:28 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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g'day eggs,

our granddaughter is just 12 months ans she is getting taught and
learning, only takes a couple of times of "no! don't touch" same
worked with our daughters we started their training if you like as
soon as they where mobile.


On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:08:26 +1100, eggs
wrote:
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/
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Old 23-03-2007, 07:33 PM posted to aus.gardens
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g'day hc,

yes the doogooders of society take no responsibility they just sue the
pants off someone or something, all because they can't take their
parental role properly.

yes she is a little darling the light of our life along with the other
4 grandies as well. she is learning very easily what not to touch,
they don't play pen her at home anymore either.

gotta love 'em hey?

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:43:01 +1100, HC wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/


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Old 23-03-2007, 07:48 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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g'day chris,

educatiuon of kids pirmarily is the responsibility of parents, it is
up to the parent to ascertain any risk to their child before they lob
them into someone elses care, it's all about parents being
responsible.

and yes as kids we did get hurt on odd occassion someone broke a bone
we all had fun in a very much safer world then and yes our parents had
things like angels trumpets and arum lillies in the garden that was
very common and no! once we were told not to touch the plant or put it
near our mouths i guess none of us where dumb enough to do so as none
of us ever did.

you can't cotton wool kids in their development, and you can't rely on
litigation to do what good parenting should do.

i am seeing a lot more accidents involving kids around schools
nowadays some fatal and it appears to me that neither the schools or
the parents are teaching kids basic road safety rules. even at 40k a
vehicle can kill a pedestrian and when a kid does something wrong like
run out from behind a bus there isn't much a driver can do as most
drivers aren't blessed with those sort of reaction times.

if i was amanda i wouldn't be too keen on signing off on anything like
that nowadays it smells of scapegoating.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:25:10 +1100, "Nina Pretty Ballerina"
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/
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Old 24-03-2007, 04:54 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"len garden" wrote in message
...
yes bronwyn,

educatiuon is the best protection, guess nowadays too many parents
don't have enough common sense or knowledge themsleves to be raising a
family with?


Hold on a minute there - plenty of parents made great errors in judgement
going back a few years too, so its not just confined to "parents of today"
..... my 65 yo Mum remembers learning about the heat of chillies the hard way
.... and on another tack, my sister in law (now 51) was about 6 when the
family visited a neighbouring farm and the little girls made a tea party
.....and I think it was tordon that they used for the "tea".

Education is great, but C&Ks are inclusive kindys and there a several
children with added difficulties like autism and Downs syndrome where
education might not sink in as well as it does with other kids (or sink in
too well so they won't eat anything from the garden).

I guess the point is that you can't just rely on education alone when you
are legally responsible for 22 kids between 2 adults so making the play
environment as safe as possible is the best option.
Amanda




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Old 24-03-2007, 04:57 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"len garden" wrote in message
...
g'day eggs,

our granddaughter is just 12 months ans she is getting taught and
learning, only takes a couple of times of "no! don't touch" same
worked with our daughters we started their training if you like as
soon as they where mobile.

Thats great Len - but multiply her by 20, add some learning difficulties and
behavioural problems to some of those kids and go play with them in a patch
of oleander!

Amanda



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Old 24-03-2007, 05:01 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"Chookie" wrote in message
...

From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no

poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty

much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it

properly
or you just eat enough of it.


snort

No list??? I'd be back to the originators of the form!


I fear that is some lawyer
The poisons information centre can't even tell you what the guidelines
should be.
A


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Old 24-03-2007, 05:04 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"len garden" wrote in message

take very special care amanda, might be time to seek out a good
litigation lawyers advice, and get that in writting too.


Thanks Len ... but its not my signature on the form
I'm just doing an unofficial walk through and noting anything suspect (the
cestrum poking through the back fence is really the only thing I'm
particularly concerned about).

A




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Old 24-03-2007, 05:15 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"len garden" wrote in message
...
g'day chris,

educatiuon of kids pirmarily is the responsibility of parents, it is
up to the parent to ascertain any risk to their child before they lob
them into someone elses care, it's all about parents being
responsible.

and yes as kids we did get hurt on odd occassion someone broke a bone
we all had fun in a very much safer world then and yes our parents had
things like angels trumpets and arum lillies in the garden that was
very common and no! once we were told not to touch the plant or put it
near our mouths i guess none of us where dumb enough to do so as none
of us ever did.


With all due respect Len, its a very different world today than when you
were small or when your own kids were small.
Just think of the reidiculous insurance claims for a start.
AND I do know of kids from my Dad's era who died from plant poisoning
(castor bean no less), so its not really a generational thing.

you can't cotton wool kids in their development, and you can't rely on
litigation to do what good parenting should do.


I see you point Len, but bare in mind, people take a lot of offence if their
parenting skills are questioned.
Childcare was probably not a major option in your young day - its a necesary
thing in today's world and a parent has a right to expect that the
environment is safe if they are paying for a person to caer for their child
in that environment.

i am seeing a lot more accidents involving kids around schools
nowadays some fatal and it appears to me that neither the schools or
the parents are teaching kids basic road safety rules. even at 40k a
vehicle can kill a pedestrian and when a kid does something wrong like
run out from behind a bus there isn't much a driver can do as most
drivers aren't blessed with those sort of reaction times.


Again Len - not wanting to have a go at you, but do you perhaps think that
a) there are considerably more cars on the road now than back in the olden
days? and b) that kids still did stupid things back then but it might not
have made the evening news. From what I know from my parents and
grandparents era, it wasn't uncommon to have had a sibling die from an
accident of some sort .... or an illness that hadn't been described.

if i was amanda i wouldn't be too keen on signing off on anything like
that nowadays it smells of scapegoating.


Sorry - its the kindy that has to sign off, and I'm not officially offering
an expert opinion so I'm not signing.

Its interesting to get this "generational" discussion though.

Amanda


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Old 24-03-2007, 05:17 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:03:42 GMT, "FlowerGirl"
wrote:

Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no

poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area

of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no

poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty

much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it

properly
or you just eat enough of it.

I can tell them to sign off against what's on the Qld Health list of
poisonous plants and fungi (well nearly - there's cestrum growing through
the back fence from the neighbours yard and its a right bugger to get rid
of ), but what about the variegated croton and the Rhoeo which can cause
mild reactions. ....or even the green tomatoes which can contain a

poisonous
substance (saponins)? Not sure about the Strelitzias by the front door
either..... Where does one draw the line?


I guess your easiest option is to contact the Dept of Community/Family
Services (Qld equivalent) and ask them what list they are using. They
are the ones who want the document so they must have a list they want
it checked against. If they are using the Qld Health list then you
can just go with that, if they are using something obscure or "use
your own judgement" then you have a bit more trouble.


Thanks Cheryl - that's probably the department I should contact for the
"legal" list.

The kids planted sweet peas this week and they aren't on the Qld health list
so hopefully that means its all systems go for some sweet smelling flowers
in a little while.

Amanda


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Old 24-03-2007, 05:24 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"Ally" wrote in message
...




Order a Leaflet from
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/poisons.../pamphlets.asp
Poisonous plants leaflet (limit 1 copy)



Thanks Alley - all the plants are listed on that website (with common names,
latin names and pictures) and I do have an older copy of that leaflet. The
problem is that we don't officially know if this is the list we have to
check against (its OK and only lists things which really shouldn't be
planted ... like *&^% duranta)

A leaflet that lists plants that is best not grown where children may have
access to them. Suitable for the home or child care facilities. QPIC is

able
to supply a single copy only of the poisonous plants brochure. The

brochure
can be printed directly from this website. Larger supplies can also be
ordered from GoPrint for a small charge. Telephone GoPrint on 07 3246

3500.

You story reminds me of the audit done at my kids child care centre. All

of
the trees were cut down and replaced with shadecloth because it was

decided
that they may drop limbs.


This is where it gets a bit sad IMHO.

Some trees do drop limbs with alarming indiscrimination (like the
aforementioned lemon-scented gums where the tree may not look stressed at
all and still drop a limb). But others are perfectly OK.
Perhaps a niche market for a couple with the joint skills of law and
arboriculture to do inspections for childcare centres (although I'm almost
certain that the legal insurance costs would be prohibitive).
Amanda


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Old 24-03-2007, 06:02 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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In article ,
len garden wrote:

g'day eggs,

our granddaughter is just 12 months ans she is getting taught and
learning, only takes a couple of times of "no! don't touch" same
worked with our daughters we started their training if you like as
soon as they where mobile.



My child raising practices are pretty much the same as yours - but
adopting the position of "it's the parent's responsibility to teach
them" means that the child ends up being punished for their parent's
behavior (i.e. it's the kid not the parent who gets poisoned because the
parent didn't teach the kid not to eat plants). That seems grossly
unfair to me, especially as it could result in the death of a child.

eggs.
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Old 24-03-2007, 06:06 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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In article ,
Chookie wrote:

In article ,
eggs wrote:

I might chop it down anyway and plant
something more suitable as I'm pretty sure this is only a break in the
drought, not the end of it. Any suggestions for a nice shade tree for
the courtyard (space is about 6m X 6m where the current tree stands)?
I'd prefer something with a non-invasive root system as there is a city
sewer pipe down there under the yard.


There's no such thing as a non-invasive root system. What you need are the
new sewer pipes, not the old terracotta ones. In general, no trees should be
planted within 5m of a sewer line.

You'd probably need to work out if you only want summer shade or if you'd
prefer light cover all year round. Which way does it face?

Possibilities:
Deciduous
Crepe myrtle
Mulberry
FLowering prunus (or even a multigrafted stone-fruit tree)
Silk tree (Albizia julibrissin)
Quince (the fruiting kind, not the flowering quince)
Frangipani


Thanks! We only want shade in the summer as we have a high wall at the
back that shades us for much of the day in the winter, so one of these
sounds good. I think I like the idea of a fruiting plant and I love
Mulberries (hadn't even thought of that!). Off to google mulberry trees
....

eggs.


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