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Old 22-03-2007, 05:03 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

.... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it properly
or you just eat enough of it.

I can tell them to sign off against what's on the Qld Health list of
poisonous plants and fungi (well nearly - there's cestrum growing through
the back fence from the neighbours yard and its a right bugger to get rid
of ), but what about the variegated croton and the Rhoeo which can cause
mild reactions. ....or even the green tomatoes which can contain a poisonous
substance (saponins)? Not sure about the Strelitzias by the front door
either..... Where does one draw the line?

Part of me thinks that its a matter of teaching kids not to eat stuff they
find in the garden (without asking first - like my kids do) but then I worry
about the kids that just don't get that concept (Bear in mind that the C&K
kids are aged between 3.5 y and up to 5.5 y).
(I also remember tutoring a poisonous plants class at uni and having a 19 yo
student pretend to eat a castor oil seed right after I emphasized that all
the plants were poisonous so to wear gloves, not touch their faces and to
wash their hands well and often. ... so I guess there's no accounting for
some.)

Hmmmm
Amanda



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Old 22-03-2007, 05:40 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

g'day amanda,

sometimes i wonder how we made it as kids hey??

guess the safest way is to replace living plants with fake plastic
ones, almost no worries then, i say almost because as i said a long
time ago somewhere "it doesn't matter how fool proof you make it -
there is always a fool out there how can circumvent any system", the
only way to make anything fool proof is to remove the fool.

so fake plants still look the safest bet, once you sign off on
something you may be where the litigation buck stops.



On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:03:42 GMT, "FlowerGirl"
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/
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Old 22-03-2007, 06:25 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

In article ,
"FlowerGirl" wrote:

Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it properly
or you just eat enough of it.


snort

No list??? I'd be back to the originators of the form!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue
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Old 22-03-2007, 07:40 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare


"FlowerGirl" wrote in message
.... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it properly
or you just eat enough of it.


I'm more of the mind to remove all warning labels from anything and
everything and let nature take its course......think of it as a 21st century
twist on survival of the fittest.

Joanne


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Old 22-03-2007, 08:09 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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G'day Amanda

I have to agree with Len when he said...sometimes I wonder how we made
it as kids hey??

Everything (and I mean EVERYthing) seems to require some official
statement these days. What has happened to 'teaching' kids about plants,
and other 'dangerous' things? My son (now adult with his own kids) was
highly allergic to bee stings as a child and the school wouldn't allow
him to go on excursions, or play on the grass playground, because there
were trees/grass/etc there and he 'might' get stung....and die!!
Therefore he was forced to play on the concrete section of the
playground with absolutely NO shade trees and hardly any friends because
they were all down the back playing on the grass. In the end we were
sorry we had chosen to inform the school of his allergy because he was
victimised. He knew the procedure to follow if he was stung, knew where
to contact us at all times and to allow him to go on school excursions
(after the initial banning) I used to go as teacher's aide along with
the injection kit in my bag.

Besides growing seeds, one of his hobbies was keeping 'live'
spiders....at 3yo he had a Red Back, Sydney Funnel Web, White Tail
Spider and too many Huntsman's to count, all LIVE. Mind you, he didn't
have enough space to house the Huntsman's so they wandered around his
room, sometimes venturing out, but would always return where they knew
they would be handfed with fresh flies and other insects. I used to get
into strife if I used flyspray in the house, because these flies could
not be fed to his 'mates'. For his 4th birthday I tried to buy a Spider
Identification book that was in child's language.....no such creature!!
The only available book was full of language that he could not yet read.

At home, he had his own garden...from age 3 and he always played in the
yard where we had lots of trees/flowers/vegies/etc along with a
Callistemon that attracted swarming bees.....an apiarist friend used to
regularly call twice a week to collect the swarms, sometimes more often.
Now if we had been 'over' cautious I'm not sure what would have
happened. Sure, his condition was life threatening, but you can't wrap
kids in cotton wool as they usually choke on it!! BTW, we were not
neglectful parents either but didn't carry our concerns to the extreme,
which I feel happens within lots of areas these days. Don't let the
child to this, and don't let the child do that....it makes me wonder if
there will be any well adjusted adults in years to come.

Teach them the right and wrong way to handle plants and I'm sure this is
more likely to get them interested in gardening, than sitting around
with a long list of plant names that they can't identify. Start them
with a succulent/cactus garden, then progress to herbs and vegies...they
love growing what they eat for dinner.

Teaching is the best protection......imho!!
Bronwyn ;-)



len garden wrote:

g'day amanda,

sometimes i wonder how we made it as kids hey??

guess the safest way is to replace living plants with fake plastic
ones, almost no worries then, i say almost because as i said a long
time ago somewhere "it doesn't matter how fool proof you make it -
there is always a fool out there how can circumvent any system", the
only way to make anything fool proof is to remove the fool.

so fake plants still look the safest bet, once you sign off on
something you may be where the litigation buck stops.



On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:03:42 GMT, "FlowerGirl"
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/



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Old 22-03-2007, 08:45 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:03:42 GMT, "FlowerGirl"
wrote:

Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it properly
or you just eat enough of it.

I can tell them to sign off against what's on the Qld Health list of
poisonous plants and fungi (well nearly - there's cestrum growing through
the back fence from the neighbours yard and its a right bugger to get rid
of ), but what about the variegated croton and the Rhoeo which can cause
mild reactions. ....or even the green tomatoes which can contain a poisonous
substance (saponins)? Not sure about the Strelitzias by the front door
either..... Where does one draw the line?


I guess your easiest option is to contact the Dept of Community/Family
Services (Qld equivalent) and ask them what list they are using. They
are the ones who want the document so they must have a list they want
it checked against. If they are using the Qld Health list then you
can just go with that, if they are using something obscure or "use
your own judgement" then you have a bit more trouble.

Cheryl
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Old 22-03-2007, 09:06 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare


"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:03:42 GMT, "FlowerGirl"
wrote:

Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no
poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty
much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it
properly
or you just eat enough of it.

I can tell them to sign off against what's on the Qld Health list of
poisonous plants and fungi (well nearly - there's cestrum growing through
the back fence from the neighbours yard and its a right bugger to get rid
of ), but what about the variegated croton and the Rhoeo which can cause
mild reactions. ....or even the green tomatoes which can contain a
poisonous
substance (saponins)? Not sure about the Strelitzias by the front door
either..... Where does one draw the line?


I guess your easiest option is to contact the Dept of Community/Family
Services (Qld equivalent) and ask them what list they are using. They
are the ones who want the document so they must have a list they want
it checked against. If they are using the Qld Health list then you
can just go with that, if they are using something obscure or "use
your own judgement" then you have a bit more trouble.

Cheryl


I had a similar question once many moons ago and ran into the same problem -
no list!! Or no list that seemed to have relevance to the situation and was
official enough to be accepted. Cheryl's advice seems sound though - if
they want the guarantee, then they must have some guidelines that you can
follow - otherwise it is impossible to read their mind and becomes a
pointless exercise.

cheers
Leah


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Old 22-03-2007, 01:42 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"FlowerGirl" wrote in message
...
Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no
poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty
much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it
properly
or you just eat enough of it.

I can tell them to sign off against what's on the Qld Health list of
poisonous plants and fungi (well nearly - there's cestrum growing through
the back fence from the neighbours yard and its a right bugger to get rid
of ), but what about the variegated croton and the Rhoeo which can cause
mild reactions. ....or even the green tomatoes which can contain a
poisonous
substance (saponins)? Not sure about the Strelitzias by the front door
either..... Where does one draw the line?

Part of me thinks that its a matter of teaching kids not to eat stuff they
find in the garden (without asking first - like my kids do) but then I
worry
about the kids that just don't get that concept (Bear in mind that the C&K
kids are aged between 3.5 y and up to 5.5 y).
(I also remember tutoring a poisonous plants class at uni and having a 19
yo
student pretend to eat a castor oil seed right after I emphasized that all
the plants were poisonous so to wear gloves, not touch their faces and to
wash their hands well and often. ... so I guess there's no accounting for
some.)



Order a Leaflet from
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/poisons.../pamphlets.asp
Poisonous plants leaflet (limit 1 copy)
A leaflet that lists plants that is best not grown where children may have
access to them. Suitable for the home or child care facilities. QPIC is able
to supply a single copy only of the poisonous plants brochure. The brochure
can be printed directly from this website. Larger supplies can also be
ordered from GoPrint for a small charge. Telephone GoPrint on 07 3246 3500.

You story reminds me of the audit done at my kids child care centre. All of
the trees were cut down and replaced with shadecloth because it was decided
that they may drop limbs.



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Old 22-03-2007, 09:03 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

yes bronwyn,

educatiuon is the best protection, guess nowadays too many parents
don't have enough common sense or knowledge themsleves to be raising a
family with?

did you see the segment on a current affair program last night where a
volunteer older man at a school was known to the kids as "poppy" and
some "do gooder" complained as they saw it could lead their child into
danger??!! just an indictment of our society at present people don't
want to take the responsibility of raising and educating their own
kids to the "rights and wrongs", just look around our communities it's
all there to be seen, disenfranchised kids causing all sorts of
problems.

we used to have all sorts of indoor plants when our kids where babies
lots of them know for their toxisity we where able to teach our kids
not to touch certain things and that is how they learnt, no need for
heavy hand, even now our 1 year old granddaughter if she goes near
anything when crawling around we tell her no so she moves on, no play
pen here to keep her contained, they don't learn that way.

maybe some parents don't credit their kids with basic inteliigence?



On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:09:13 +1100, HC wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/
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Old 22-03-2007, 09:08 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

g'day cheryl,

for me even if some department did supply a list i for one would not
be putting my name to it, as bet you when the chips are down the
department will hang you out to dry.

take very special care amanda, might be time to seek out a good
litigation lawyers advice, and get that in writting too.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:45:05 +1100, Cheryl wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/


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Old 23-03-2007, 02:08 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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In article ,
len garden wrote:

yes bronwyn,

educatiuon is the best protection, guess nowadays too many parents
don't have enough common sense or knowledge themsleves to be raising a
family with?


For a daycare centre you are talking about children between 0-5 years of
age. While you can educate a 3 year old not to eat the shrubbery, it's
kind of hard to do with a 1 year old who could toddle over and start
chewing on the foliage before anyone noticed. TBH, I am kind of
surprised that a check for poisonous plants isn't done as part of the
licensing assessment of a premises for child care purposes.

My kids have a variety of plants and trees (and related insects,
spiders, snails, etc) in their yard and we have never had a problem with
it, but I would certainly never purposefully plant something poisonous
in my yard. My kids might be safe, but I couldn't be sure visiting kids
would know enough to avoid dangerous plants.

eggs.
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Old 23-03-2007, 03:25 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare


"FlowerGirl" wrote in message
...
Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no poisonous
plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very different area of
specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no
poisonous
plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't seem to be an
official list of plants that we can sign off against, ..... and pretty
much
any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong bit, don't prepare it
properly
or you just eat enough of it.

I can tell them to sign off against what's on the Qld Health list of
poisonous plants and fungi (well nearly - there's cestrum growing through
the back fence from the neighbours yard and its a right bugger to get rid
of ), but what about the variegated croton and the Rhoeo which can cause
mild reactions. ....or even the green tomatoes which can contain a
poisonous
substance (saponins)? Not sure about the Strelitzias by the front door
either..... Where does one draw the line?

Part of me thinks that its a matter of teaching kids not to eat stuff they
find in the garden (without asking first - like my kids do) but then I
worry
about the kids that just don't get that concept (Bear in mind that the C&K
kids are aged between 3.5 y and up to 5.5 y).
(I also remember tutoring a poisonous plants class at uni and having a 19
yo
student pretend to eat a castor oil seed right after I emphasized that all
the plants were poisonous so to wear gloves, not touch their faces and to
wash their hands well and often. ... so I guess there's no accounting for
some.)

Hmmmm
Amanda



it is all very well for people to say you should just educate your kids not
to eat dangerous plants etc etc, but i would also so that it is really not
too much to ask for a child care facility to check that they do not have any
known dangerous plants just hanging around.

sure, educate them about plants and animals as much as poss, but dont use
that as a guarantee that they wont go and eat the dangerous plants.

let people have plants around their own home to educate kids about if that
is what they want.

this whole argument bugs me, about well we did it when we were kids so it
must be safe....

did you not ever know one single kid when you were young that suffered
unnecessarily b/c of a car accident, bike accident, whatever??? did it make
us tougher? perhaps, but what about those that were badly injured or worse?

anywya, just a rant. and not directed at amanda..

chris


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Old 23-03-2007, 06:27 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

In article ,
eggs wrote:

My kids have a variety of plants and trees (and related insects,
spiders, snails, etc) in their yard and we have never had a problem with
it, but I would certainly never purposefully plant something poisonous
in my yard. My kids might be safe, but I couldn't be sure visiting kids
would know enough to avoid dangerous plants.


I know for a fact that there are daffodil bulbs in my garden, and rhubarb. My
MIL kept pointing out that the Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow plant in my front
yard was poisonous until I told her that as I have no front fence, the kids
are unlikely to be out in the front yard without supervision. There are a
surprising number of plants with poisonous components.

IMHO children either put *everything* in their mouths or nothing. While I
wouldn't intentionally put an oleander hedge around the day care, one assumes
that the kids are supervised outside and that they're not likely to eat much
of anything before being spotted. Choking is probably a more likely hazard
than poisoning anyway.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue
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Old 23-03-2007, 06:30 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

In article , "Ally" wrote:

You story reminds me of the audit done at my kids child care centre. All of
the trees were cut down and replaced with shadecloth because it was decided
that they may drop limbs.


sigh

There are a known range of gums that do this -- Lemon-Scented Gum, for
example. But they don't do it wihtout a reason AFAIK. It's a response to
stress -- drop a limb to have more water/nutrients for the rest of the tree.
Keep the tree unstressed and it is fine.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue
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Old 23-03-2007, 06:43 AM posted to aus.gardens
HC HC is offline
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Yes, Len I saw that program....sad isn't it? People are litigation
crazy these days and trying to make us another state of the USA! Nobody
takes responsibility for their own actions, just blame someone else. In
some cases the kids who have more intelligence than the parents.

Your DGD is the same age as my youngest one...great aren't they?
;-)

len garden wrote:
yes bronwyn,

educatiuon is the best protection, guess nowadays too many parents
don't have enough common sense or knowledge themsleves to be raising a
family with?

did you see the segment on a current affair program last night where a
volunteer older man at a school was known to the kids as "poppy" and
some "do gooder" complained as they saw it could lead their child into
danger??!! just an indictment of our society at present people don't
want to take the responsibility of raising and educating their own
kids to the "rights and wrongs", just look around our communities it's
all there to be seen, disenfranchised kids causing all sorts of
problems.

we used to have all sorts of indoor plants when our kids where babies
lots of them know for their toxisity we where able to teach our kids
not to touch certain things and that is how they learnt, no need for
heavy hand, even now our 1 year old granddaughter if she goes near
anything when crawling around we tell her no so she moves on, no play
pen here to keep her contained, they don't learn that way.

maybe some parents don't credit their kids with basic inteliigence?



On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:09:13 +1100, HC wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/



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