It's the season for monsteria deliciosa. I don't have any growing
myself, but do come across the odd windfall on suburban footpaths. :-)

I'm always intrigued by the fruit's apparent absence of seeds, as this
kind of defeats the propagation purpose of fruit as I understand it.

Any ideas?
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

On Jul 5, 2:34 pm, John Savage wrote:
It's the season for monsteria deliciosa. I don't have any growing
myself, but do come across the odd windfall on suburban footpaths. :-)

I'm always intrigued by the fruit's apparent absence of seeds, as this
kind of defeats the propagation purpose of fruit as I understand it.

Any ideas?
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

It would seem that a flowering plant that doesn't produce seeds would
be likely to be a failure in the long run but odd things happen in
nature. Apparently this has happened reasonably often through
mutation and humans have often bred such lines as they are easier to
eat without seeds. Does this mean that seedless fruits would have
died out without human intervention? I don't know.

Some like bananas do quite well propagating vegetatively. Could they
do that indefinitely in the wild?

Some rarely have viable seeds or their seeds are rarely seen as we
propagate them from cuttings, roots etc (potatos, strawberries) but in
the right circumstances the seeds will grow.

If you wanted to follow it up search for "parthenocarpy" which is the
technical term.

David

"John Savage" wrote in message
om...
It's the season for monsteria deliciosa. I don't have any growing
myself, but do come across the odd windfall on suburban footpaths. :-)

I'm always intrigued by the fruit's apparent absence of seeds, as this
kind of defeats the propagation purpose of fruit as I understand it.

Any ideas?
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

I seem to remember years ago that the Monstera is helped in pollination by a
beetle. As the beetle is is not native to Australia it will not set seed as
it isn't here. But good news all is not lost. I can vividly see Don Burke
massaging the warm flower with his hands. Was rather saucy television for
its time slot. They said this method was very successful.

Cheers

Richard

"Loosecanon" wrote in message
...

"John Savage" wrote in message
om...
It's the season for monsteria deliciosa. I don't have any growing
myself, but do come across the odd windfall on suburban footpaths. :-)

I'm always intrigued by the fruit's apparent absence of seeds, as this
kind of defeats the propagation purpose of fruit as I understand it.

Any ideas?
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

I seem to remember years ago that the Monstera is helped in pollination by
a beetle. As the beetle is is not native to Australia it will not set seed
as it isn't here. But good news all is not lost. I can vividly see Don
Burke massaging the warm flower with his hands. Was rather saucy
television for its time slot. They said this method was very successful.

Cheers

Richard

I found seeds in one of my monstera fruit earlier this year and potted them
in some seed mix from curiousity. Two of them sprouted and are growing quite
well.
I am in Brisbane and we eat the fruit, but this was the first time that I
found seeds. Previously I have just taken cuttings off the main stem, which
have always grown successfully.

"Loosecanon" writes:
I seem to remember years ago that the Monstera is helped in pollination by a
beetle. As the beetle is is not native to Australia it will not set seed as
it isn't here. But good news all is not lost. I can vividly see Don Burke
massaging the warm flower with his hands. Was rather saucy television for
its time slot. They said this method was very successful.

I remember that episode, too, and I think you may be misremembering it.
I don't think it was a monsteria, but a similar though much larger garden
flower. Monsterias around here seem to have no problems being pollinated.
Being as they are in mostly shade, you may well be spot on about a beetle
being the pollen transport; bees probably would overlook a flower hidden
in deep shade.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

" writes:
Some like bananas do quite well propagating vegetatively. Could they
do that indefinitely in the wild?

What you wrote sounds fair enough, but I'm not so sure about bananas.
I seem to recall that wild bananas are almost all seeds and little
flesh, the seeds being about the size of custard apple seeds. I can't
say I've ever heard of monkeys eating wild bananas as part of their
natural diet. Anyone?

Monsterias are in a different category, because I think that these are
still the wild cultivar, I don't think they have been through selective
breeding for cultivation. It does seem a waste of energy to produce a
large juicy fruit which does nothing to propagate the species when it
contains no seeds. Is it a native plant here? I don't see any evidence
of any creatures valuing its fruit. (How to explain why Indian Mynahs
leave it alone?)
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

"John Savage" wrote in message
om...
" writes:
Some like bananas do quite well propagating vegetatively. Could they
do that indefinitely in the wild?

What you wrote sounds fair enough, but I'm not so sure about bananas.
I seem to recall that wild bananas are almost all seeds and little
flesh, the seeds being about the size of custard apple seeds. I can't
say I've ever heard of monkeys eating wild bananas as part of their
natural diet. Anyone?

sorry, don't know a thing about wild monkeys & wild bananas, BUT - i do
recall that when i was a kid, bananas had seeds in them - tiny, tiny ones
like specks, arranged down the middle of the banana; not many & barely
visible. now, you don't see seeds in bananas ever. do they grow a different
cultivar now?

Monsterias are in a different category, because I think that these are
still the wild cultivar, I don't think they have been through selective
breeding for cultivation. It does seem a waste of energy to produce a
large juicy fruit which does nothing to propagate the species when it
contains no seeds. Is it a native plant here? I don't see any evidence
of any creatures valuing its fruit. (How to explain why Indian Mynahs
leave it alone?)

i'm really talking out my arse here, so just indulge me g - but it's true
that a plant might fruit to attract creatures which perhaps don't eat the
fruit or don't spread seed that way, but have some other effect to enhance
reproduction. i understand that in warm areas monsteras produce aerial roots
(they certainly do at my sister's place in northern nsw!), so attracting
animals that tread on the plant somewhat would be likely to lead to layering
of the plant & thus to reproduction that way? (for example).

having said that, ime most monsteras don't fruit anyway (i assume that while
it will grow almost anywhere, it will only fruit in its preferred climate?)
so that might have soemthing to do with it - a plant which is keen to fruit
(as it were) will do so, whereas a plant for which it's far less "necessary"
to fruit might be much more selective.

just offering some ideas to annoy you with ;-)
kylie

"0tterbot" writes:
recall that when i was a kid, bananas had seeds in them - tiny, tiny ones
like specks, arranged down the middle of the banana; not many & barely
visible. now, you don't see seeds in bananas ever. do they grow a different
cultivar now?

I think I remember the same. Since then, banana growers have had to
contend with much. Wasn't there a "bunchy-top" disease? Most likely there
is constant pressure for a fruit with better appearance, or more-uniform
shape, or better keeping quality, etc., and agric research would have to
keep coming out with new varieties. I'd say that the relatively quick
time to maturity of banana plants (evidenced by the quick recovery from
that cyclone carnage a year or two back) would mean that newly developed
varieties can be brought to the supermarket shelf in short time compared
with, say, apples or mangoes. None the less, I do still find some of
those tiny seeds in some bananas. (On those few occasions when I
recklessly divert the rent money to purchase half a dozen bananas!)

that a plant might fruit to attract creatures which perhaps don't eat the
fruit or don't spread seed that way, but have some other effect to enhance
reproduction. i understand that in warm areas monsteras produce aerial roots
(they certainly do at my sister's place in northern nsw!), so attracting
animals that tread on the plant somewhat would be likely to lead to layering
of the plant & thus to reproduction that way? (for example).

Good thinking 99! Just for the sake of the debate, I could contend that
it might be smarter for the plant's flower to simply produce a misleading
scent to attract the elephant, or buffalo, whatever, to stomp it into
the dirt. :-)

just offering some ideas to annoy you with ;-)

No, I find it refreshing to be thrown new ideas. :-))
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

"Leftred" writes:
I'm always intrigued by the fruit's apparent absence of seeds, as this
kind of defeats the propagation purpose of fruit as I understand it.

I found seeds in one of my monstera fruit earlier this year and potted them
in some seed mix from curiousity. Two of them sprouted and are growing quite
well.
I am in Brisbane and we eat the fruit, but this was the first time that I
found seeds. Previously I have just taken cuttings off the main stem, which
have always grown successfully.

Bravo! Well done! What appearance did the seeds have?
True, the plants are easy to propogate from rooted chunks, and hard to
kill.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

John Savage wrote:
"Leftred" writes:
I'm always intrigued by the fruit's apparent absence of seeds, as this
kind of defeats the propagation purpose of fruit as I understand it.

I found seeds in one of my monstera fruit earlier this year and potted them
in some seed mix from curiousity. Two of them sprouted and are growing quite
well.
I am in Brisbane and we eat the fruit, but this was the first time that I
found seeds. Previously I have just taken cuttings off the main stem, which
have always grown successfully.

Bravo! Well done! What appearance did the seeds have?
True, the plants are easy to propogate from rooted chunks, and hard to
kill.
They were green, smooth,slightly oval and about 1cm in diameter. I just
put them in some seed raising mix and they sprouted quite readily