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Old 01-01-2008, 03:55 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

i know - weird question g

i love lebanese cucumbers, but they've never cropped well for me. last year
i spent every morning hand-fertilising the flowers (which gave a much better
result than previous years, but still fairly unimpressive i suspect).

this year, i had been ignoring them in the pre-xmas kerfuffle, only to
discover they're cropping a treat without me!! (as are the pumpkins next to
them, which have about as many baby pumpkins already as we harvested
entirely last year for the whole season).

my first idea is that we've many, many bees & bugs now. i planted "bug
flowers" such as queen anne's lace & whatnot to bring more bugs, which seems
to be working. the bees were active all winter, too & are now present in
large numbers, yay. still, last year we seemed to have plenty of bees
anyway, but not many cucumbers. (?)

i'm growing them up a fence this time, which i believe is recommended. does
anyone know what the difference might be with growing them upwards instead
of along the ground? (more bee action?)

the last thing is i spread compost all over the cucurbit bed about 10-20cm
deep before transplanting. iirc, last year they were in dirt with manure in
it. have they a particular passionate love for compost? my compost is still
mostly pretty lumpy & weird, but i guess it does the job!

the armenian cucumbers have only just begun to flower. interestingly, these
did quite well last year, probably because i don't like them very much g.
dh really likes them though, so one of us was happy. i look forward to
finding out if the armenians crop better this year, too. i'm letting those
go on the ground though (i just don't have that many fences to indulge
myself with ;-)

look forward to your thoughts in my quest for the perfect lebanese cucumber
plant!
kylie


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Old 01-01-2008, 06:12 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Posts: 65
Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

0tterbot wrote:
i know - weird question g

i love lebanese cucumbers, but they've never cropped well for me. last year
i spent every morning hand-fertilising the flowers (which gave a much better
result than previous years, but still fairly unimpressive i suspect).

this year, i had been ignoring them in the pre-xmas kerfuffle, only to
discover they're cropping a treat without me!! (as are the pumpkins next to
them, which have about as many baby pumpkins already as we harvested
entirely last year for the whole season).

my first idea is that we've many, many bees & bugs now. i planted "bug
flowers" such as queen anne's lace & whatnot to bring more bugs, which seems
to be working. the bees were active all winter, too & are now present in
large numbers, yay. still, last year we seemed to have plenty of bees
anyway, but not many cucumbers. (?)

i'm growing them up a fence this time, which i believe is recommended. does
anyone know what the difference might be with growing them upwards instead
of along the ground? (more bee action?)

the last thing is i spread compost all over the cucurbit bed about 10-20cm
deep before transplanting. iirc, last year they were in dirt with manure in
it. have they a particular passionate love for compost? my compost is still
mostly pretty lumpy & weird, but i guess it does the job!

the armenian cucumbers have only just begun to flower. interestingly, these
did quite well last year, probably because i don't like them very much g.
dh really likes them though, so one of us was happy. i look forward to
finding out if the armenians crop better this year, too. i'm letting those
go on the ground though (i just don't have that many fences to indulge
myself with ;-)

look forward to your thoughts in my quest for the perfect lebanese cucumber
plant!
kylie


Had much rain? They love rain compost, chicken manure a hot spot and
lots of sex (fertilising of flowers) Alos the more I garden to more i
realise its a co dependent eco system to get the birds and the bees to
co operate and make them all happy, to attract bees and pant the right
things so they have food. Its about food really...
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Old 01-01-2008, 06:30 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Posts: 65
Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

Had much rain? They love rain compost, chicken manure, a hot spot and
lots of sex (fertilising of flowers). Dont let the mdry out too much...
Also the more I garden, the more I realise its a co dependent eco
system. To get the birds and the bees to co operate and make them all
happy, to attract bees and plant the right things so they have food. Its
about food really... Our food and their food, and survival.


0tterbot wrote:
i know - weird question g

i love lebanese cucumbers, but they've never cropped well for me. last year
i spent every morning hand-fertilising the flowers (which gave a much better
result than previous years, but still fairly unimpressive i suspect).

this year, i had been ignoring them in the pre-xmas kerfuffle, only to
discover they're cropping a treat without me!! (as are the pumpkins next to
them, which have about as many baby pumpkins already as we harvested
entirely last year for the whole season).

my first idea is that we've many, many bees & bugs now. i planted "bug
flowers" such as queen anne's lace & whatnot to bring more bugs, which seems
to be working. the bees were active all winter, too & are now present in
large numbers, yay. still, last year we seemed to have plenty of bees
anyway, but not many cucumbers. (?)

i'm growing them up a fence this time, which i believe is recommended. does
anyone know what the difference might be with growing them upwards instead
of along the ground? (more bee action?)

the last thing is i spread compost all over the cucurbit bed about 10-20cm
deep before transplanting. iirc, last year they were in dirt with manure in
it. have they a particular passionate love for compost? my compost is still
mostly pretty lumpy & weird, but i guess it does the job!

the armenian cucumbers have only just begun to flower. interestingly, these
did quite well last year, probably because i don't like them very much g.
dh really likes them though, so one of us was happy. i look forward to
finding out if the armenians crop better this year, too. i'm letting those
go on the ground though (i just don't have that many fences to indulge
myself with ;-)

look forward to your thoughts in my quest for the perfect lebanese cucumber
plant!
kylie


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Old 01-01-2008, 11:07 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Posts: 2,358
Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

"0tterbot" wrote in message
i know - weird question g


Moved location and got some good rains perhaps? :-))

i love lebanese cucumbers, but they've never cropped well for me. last
year i spent every morning hand-fertilising the flowers (which gave a much
better result than previous years, but still fairly unimpressive i
suspect).

this year, i had been ignoring them in the pre-xmas kerfuffle, only to
discover they're cropping a treat without me!!


As you know, I'm not too far from you to the west so we have a similar
length of growing time between frosts. Last year we had a massive crop of
Lebanese cukes, in fact so many I just left them to rot in the end and now I
have self sown ones coming up in the silver beet and dangerously near the
carrots. I put them in a bed that had been heavily manured with horse poop
and we have no problems with water - even through the worst of the dry last
year we could give all the water we wanted to. I can't tell you what yuo
are doing right or wrong, just what we've experienced. This year the
seedling Leb cukes are doing well but I don't know if they ahve any fruit on
them yet as I haven't looked - I'm too busy checking up on the rockmelons
and orange watermelons which I am desperate to get. I'll check the Leb cukes
and the self sown ones tomorrow and let you know if anything interesting is
happening.

my first idea is that we've many, many bees & bugs now. i planted "bug
flowers" such as queen anne's lace & whatnot to bring more bugs, which
seems to be working. the bees were active all winter, too & are now
present in large numbers, yay. still, last year we seemed to have plenty
of bees anyway, but not many cucumbers. (?)


I've noticed how full of bees the stachys lanata and the lavendar is is the
past few weeks - simply alive with them.

i'm growing them up a fence this time, which i believe is recommended.
does anyone know what the difference might be with growing them upwards
instead of along the ground? (more bee action?)


Mine did well sprawling on the ground.

Fran


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Old 02-01-2008, 11:44 PM posted to aus.gardens
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Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

"Jonno" wrote in message
u...
Had much rain?


had a cool, rainy period just before xmas - it must have helped, by the
looks of things! & clearly they've been having sex amongst themselves ;-)

They love rain compost, chicken manure, a hot spot and
lots of sex (fertilising of flowers). Dont let the mdry out too much...
Also the more I garden, the more I realise its a co dependent eco system.
To get the birds and the bees to co operate and make them all happy, to
attract bees and plant the right things so they have food. Its about food
really... Our food and their food, and survival.


i agree - & i do think we have more bugs than last year.

when i go to my neighbours' place, it's like a dead zone in terms of birds
and bugs, whereas our place is quite noisy & busy with them. these are
people who give us horse poo, grass clippings, dead leaves & whatnot,
because they apparently Don't Approve of such things (& aren't gardeners
anyway). it boggles my mind, but there you are. if i were not a gardener,
i'd still leave clippings & leaves on the grass & things like that. oh well.
:-) i'm certain they find _us_ to be mind-boggling in many ways, too. g
kylie





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Old 02-01-2008, 11:51 PM posted to aus.gardens
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Posts: 713
Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"0tterbot" wrote in message
i know - weird question g


Moved location and got some good rains perhaps? :-))


:-D
we didn't get "good" rains, though, really. it was pointlessly overcast
mostly - which means our solar power does not work so well & we get cranky.
g

i think the plants really enjoyed the cool moistness though. then they all
got a shock when it turned HOT.

As you know, I'm not too far from you to the west so we have a similar
length of growing time between frosts. Last year we had a massive crop of
Lebanese cukes, in fact so many I just left them to rot in the end


.... sigh!!!...

and now I
have self sown ones coming up in the silver beet and dangerously near the
carrots. I put them in a bed that had been heavily manured with horse
poop and we have no problems with water - even through the worst of the
dry last year we could give all the water we wanted to.


had lots of water ourselves last year too - i'm convinced though (along with
the natural sequencers etc) that rain is different to water from a hose. i
know that martin famous-r-family does water massaging for this reason. it's
probably all a bit like biodynamics - it all works, the question is how &
why!! (i don't know why i think i need to know the how & why of everything,
but i do).

I can't tell you what yuo
are doing right or wrong, just what we've experienced. This year the
seedling Leb cukes are doing well but I don't know if they ahve any fruit
on them yet as I haven't looked - I'm too busy checking up on the
rockmelons and orange watermelons which I am desperate to get.


mine were duds last year - never got ripe. i decided it's not hot enough
here. perhaps i was just wrong?

I've noticed how full of bees the stachys lanata and the lavendar is is

the
past few weeks - simply alive with them.


i put in some cornflowers this year - my word, the bees love them!! i'm
chopping most of them down soon though as they are so tall & are falling
everywhere & just look awful.


i'm growing them up a fence this time, which i believe is recommended.
does anyone know what the difference might be with growing them upwards
instead of along the ground? (more bee action?)


Mine did well sprawling on the ground.


this might become a long-term experiment for me!
thanks
kylie


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Old 07-01-2008, 04:52 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

had lots of water ourselves last year too - i'm convinced though (along with
the natural sequencers etc) that rain is different to water from a hose. i
know that martin famous-r-family does water massaging for this reason. it's
probably all a bit like biodynamics - it all works, the question is how &
why!! (i don't know why i think i need to know the how & why of everything,
but i do).


I think it's sheer quantity. 20mm falling from the sky all over my back yard
does a lot more than 20 mm on a tiny area -- assuming I can actually get 20mm
"rainfall" from my weeper hose.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:43 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Posts: 2,358
Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

"Chookie" wrote in message "0tterbot"
wrote:

had lots of water ourselves last year too - i'm convinced though (along
with
the natural sequencers etc) that rain is different to water from a hose.


I think it's sheer quantity. 20mm falling from the sky all over my back
yard
does a lot more than 20 mm on a tiny area -- assuming I can actually get
20mm "rainfall" from my weeper hose.


The difference between rain and water from the hose is that rain has
nitrogen in it. Dunno where I first read this but I read it years ago.

I thought I'd better provide an authoritative cite but don't know if any of
this qualifies except for those who have fish ponds :-)) :
"Blanketweed after Rainstorms. Why should this happen?
We are certain it occurs, at least in part, because of something we have all
heard about. The key to this phenomenon is acid rain. I would suggest that
most of us have not fully appreciated the significance of acid rain in
keeping ponds. Acid rain arises from two types of acid-forming materials.
One is from sulphur dioxide that rises into the atmosphere primarily as a
byproduct of industrial processes and from the burning of fossil fuels. From
a pond keeping and algae growth perspective, these sulphur products are not
important.

The second acidforming group of gases that rise into the atmosphere are the
nitrogen oxides. These include nitric oxide (NO) and nitrogen dioxide (NO2).
When these oxides (NOx) are dissolved in rainwater high in the atmosphere,
mainly nitric acid (HNO3) is produced. This dilute acid falls to the ground
when it rains and produces nitrate in ponds.

The sudden rush into growth of blanketweed after a rainstorm is therefore
explained.

Another nitrogen compound that drops out of the sky when it rains is
ammonia. It falls to the ground and into ponds as dilute ammonium hydroxide
(NH4(OH)). It is an alkali, not an acid and the amounts are generally less
significant for pondkeepers than is the nitrate arising from nitric acid. It
is interesting to see that ammonia, one of the products pondkeepers are
removing from pondwater through their filters, can appear in the pond water
when it rains as well as from fish excrement.

The National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory
The website (www.naei.org.uk) of the National Atmospheric Emissions
Inventory (NAEI) gives a good deal of information about the amounts and
sources of various atmospheric pollutants by geographical region. Another
set of data that is available from the NAEI website is a table that shows
the annual tonnes of different pollutants emitted from various large point
sources situated within different distances from a particular postcode. Much
of the data has been produced from models used by the NAEI although some
have been provided by the owners of the plants in question.

Pondkeepers can access this tool by going to
www.naei.org.uk/mapping/mapping_2004.php and entering their postcode in the
appropriate box. We suggest that pondkeepers go into the NAEI website and
look further into the emissions that might be personally affecting them by
using their specific postcodes.

Going back to the original question of whether tapwater or rainwater should
be used for topping up ponds, the recommendation is the pondkeeper should
check particularly for nitrate (and other nasties) in both types of water
sources and, if possible, use the one with the lowest content. Pondkeepers
also have to bear in mind that levels may fluctuate so regular checking is
advisible. Better still, if pondkeepers practise water changes to simply
lower the nitrate level in the pondwater, then they need not change large
volumes of water because pond products, for example VirescoT, are available
that will take the nitrate level down to zero and hold it there. Once
nitrate is removed, blanketweed and other algae stop growing. However, there
is no substitute for keeping on top of regular pond husbandry."
http://www.practical-water-gardens.c...ateinwater.htm



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Old 11-01-2008, 01:33 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Posts: 713
Default cucumbers - what have i finally done right??

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Chookie" wrote in message "0tterbot"
wrote:

had lots of water ourselves last year too - i'm convinced though (along
with
the natural sequencers etc) that rain is different to water from a hose.


I think it's sheer quantity. 20mm falling from the sky all over my back
yard
does a lot more than 20 mm on a tiny area -- assuming I can actually get
20mm "rainfall" from my weeper hose.


The difference between rain and water from the hose is that rain has
nitrogen in it. Dunno where I first read this but I read it years ago.


i was thinking it was aeration! (or perhaps some result of aeration). but i
don't think chookie's completely wrong either - when all the area is
watered, it will stay watered longer as the water's not travelling sideways
into the dry parts, as happens when one hand-waters.

but really, all i know is that rain is 100% better than any other kind of
watering, ime.
kylie

I thought I'd better provide an authoritative cite but don't know if any
of this qualifies except for those who have fish ponds :-)) :
"Blanketweed after Rainstorms. Why should this happen?
We are certain it occurs, at least in part, because of something we have
all heard about. The key to this phenomenon is acid rain. I would suggest
that most of us have not fully appreciated the significance of acid rain
in keeping ponds. Acid rain arises from two types of acid-forming
materials. One is from sulphur dioxide that rises into the atmosphere
primarily as a byproduct of industrial processes and from the burning of
fossil fuels. From a pond keeping and algae growth perspective, these
sulphur products are not important.

The second acidforming group of gases that rise into the atmosphere are
the nitrogen oxides. These include nitric oxide (NO) and nitrogen dioxide
(NO2). When these oxides (NOx) are dissolved in rainwater high in the
atmosphere, mainly nitric acid (HNO3) is produced. This dilute acid falls
to the ground when it rains and produces nitrate in ponds.

The sudden rush into growth of blanketweed after a rainstorm is therefore
explained.

Another nitrogen compound that drops out of the sky when it rains is
ammonia. It falls to the ground and into ponds as dilute ammonium
hydroxide (NH4(OH)). It is an alkali, not an acid and the amounts are
generally less significant for pondkeepers than is the nitrate arising
from nitric acid. It is interesting to see that ammonia, one of the
products pondkeepers are removing from pondwater through their filters,
can appear in the pond water when it rains as well as from fish excrement.

The National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory
The website (www.naei.org.uk) of the National Atmospheric Emissions
Inventory (NAEI) gives a good deal of information about the amounts and
sources of various atmospheric pollutants by geographical region. Another
set of data that is available from the NAEI website is a table that shows
the annual tonnes of different pollutants emitted from various large point
sources situated within different distances from a particular postcode.
Much of the data has been produced from models used by the NAEI although
some have been provided by the owners of the plants in question.

Pondkeepers can access this tool by going to
www.naei.org.uk/mapping/mapping_2004.php and entering their postcode in
the appropriate box. We suggest that pondkeepers go into the NAEI website
and look further into the emissions that might be personally affecting
them by using their specific postcodes.

Going back to the original question of whether tapwater or rainwater
should be used for topping up ponds, the recommendation is the pondkeeper
should check particularly for nitrate (and other nasties) in both types of
water sources and, if possible, use the one with the lowest content.
Pondkeepers also have to bear in mind that levels may fluctuate so regular
checking is advisible. Better still, if pondkeepers practise water changes
to simply lower the nitrate level in the pondwater, then they need not
change large volumes of water because pond products, for example VirescoT,
are available that will take the nitrate level down to zero and hold it
there. Once nitrate is removed, blanketweed and other algae stop growing.
However, there is no substitute for keeping on top of regular pond
husbandry." http://www.practical-water-gardens.c...ateinwater.htm





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Old 15-04-2011, 08:08 PM
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I was cerebration it was aeration! (or conceivably some after effect of aeration). but i don't anticipate chookie's absolutely amiss either - if all the breadth is watered, it will break watered best as the water's not travelling alongside into the dry parts, as happens if one hand-waters.
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