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Old 09-01-2008, 12:17 PM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

Here is a review from the Department of the Environment

http://www.environment.gov.au/soe/te...s/wateruse.pdf

Which says amongst other things:
"The appreciation of such economic and environmental costs is now very much
greater, especially in the context of schemes for urban water supply and
hydro-electric power. However, the same cannot be said of water storage for
irrigation, particularly in terms of pressures to increase supply through the
inland diversion of water from coastal streams. Proposals such as the
Bradfield scheme have involved a number of rivers in Queensland and New South
Wales, especially the Clarence (Cameron McNamara 1982; NSWDWR 1988). There is
no doubt that such proposals are feasible in engineering terms; equally, there
is no doubt that they are not economically viable or environmentally feasible.
As with other irrigation-related schemes, they are predicated on the
assumption that water costs would be subsidised by government. The same
observations apply to proposals to pipe water from the Kimberleys and/or Lake
Argyle to Perth and other southern locations. In Perth, the water would cost
$3.45 per kilolitre compared with $0.53 from south-western sources and $1.80
from desalination "
I am not saying this document is 100% right or the last word on the subject
but at least the author is a professional and it is published by a reasonable
authority.

If you are looking for big thinking have a look at this:

http://www.cecaust.com.au/pubs/pdfs/Water_Projects.pdf

It's a wish list in the form of a map, which looks very spoofy but keep in
mind there are zero costings or environmental impacts supplied.

The Citizens Electoral Lobby is the Australian arm of the American La Rouche
organisation whose grab-bag of ideas and policies (on their main page) are
very interesting. I leave you to draw your own conclusions about how valuable
such views are to the debate.

David



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Old 09-01-2008, 01:51 PM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

David Hare-Scott wrote:
Here is a review from the Department of the Environment

http://www.environment.gov.au/soe/te...s/wateruse.pdf

Which says amongst other things:
"The appreciation of such economic and environmental costs is now very much
greater, especially in the context of schemes for urban water supply and
hydro-electric power. However, the same cannot be said of water storage for
irrigation, particularly in terms of pressures to increase supply through the
inland diversion of water from coastal streams. Proposals such as the
Bradfield scheme have involved a number of rivers in Queensland and New South
Wales, especially the Clarence (Cameron McNamara 1982; NSWDWR 1988). There is
no doubt that such proposals are feasible in engineering terms; equally, there
is no doubt that they are not economically viable or environmentally feasible.
As with other irrigation-related schemes, they are predicated on the
assumption that water costs would be subsidised by government. The same
observations apply to proposals to pipe water from the Kimberleys and/or Lake
Argyle to Perth and other southern locations. In Perth, the water would cost
$3.45 per kilolitre compared with $0.53 from south-western sources and $1.80
from desalination "
I am not saying this document is 100% right or the last word on the subject
but at least the author is a professional and it is published by a reasonable
authority.

If you are looking for big thinking have a look at this:

http://www.cecaust.com.au/pubs/pdfs/Water_Projects.pdf

It's a wish list in the form of a map, which looks very spoofy but keep in
mind there are zero costings or environmental impacts supplied.

The Citizens Electoral Lobby is the Australian arm of the American La Rouche
organisation whose grab-bag of ideas and policies (on their main page) are
very interesting. I leave you to draw your own conclusions about how valuable
such views are to the debate.

David


The problem is the powers that are have made scarce resources by not
allowing dams and privatisation would like to keep it this way, making
water a resource by which to hold people to ransom... This is the way it
is panning out.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:22 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought


"Jonno" wrote in message
u...


The problem is the powers that are have made scarce resources by not
allowing dams and privatisation would like to keep it this way, making
water a resource by which to hold people to ransom... This is the way it
is panning out.


Which powers? How are they holding people to ransom? Why?

David


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Old 10-01-2008, 06:01 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Jonno" wrote in message
u...

The problem is the powers that be, "the Government" have made scarce resources by not
allowing dams and privatisation, would like to keep it this way, making
water a resource by which to hold people to ransom... This is the way it
is panning out.


Which powers? The government and corporate bodies


How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively
for water.

Why? Think about it.... To make money...

Are you sure youre not Farm1?
He asks the same type of questions.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:00 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought


"Jonno" wrote in message
...
David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Jonno" wrote in message
u...

The problem is the powers that be, "the Government" have made scarce

resources by not
allowing dams and privatisation, would like to keep it this way, making
water a resource by which to hold people to ransom... This is the way it
is panning out.


Which powers? The government and corporate bodies


How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively
for water.


Do you have any evidence of this? What do "they" do to make water more
expensive?

Why? Think about it.... To make money...

Are you sure youre not Farm1?


I am sure.

He asks the same type of questions.


Thankyou. I think.

David




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Old 10-01-2008, 07:10 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

Jonno wrote:

The problem is the powers that are have made scarce resources by not
allowing dams and privatisation would like to keep it this way, making
water a resource by which to hold people to ransom... This is the way it
is panning out.


You are going to have to explain how privatisation will fix this and
provide cheap water.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:11 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

Jonno wrote:

How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively
for water.


Who pays excessively for water?
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:55 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Jonno" wrote in message
...
David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Jonno" wrote in message
u...
The problem is the powers that be, "the Government" have made scarce

resources by not
allowing dams and privatisation, would like to keep it this way, making
water a resource by which to hold people to ransom... This is the way it
is panning out.
Which powers? The government and corporate bodies

How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively
for water.


Do you have any evidence of this? What do "they" do to make water more
expensive?

I dont need evidence. I am not making a federal case. The evidence is
all around....Only blind people,and people who are inclined to be blind
for their own purposes dont "see" it.

Why? Think about it.... To make money...

Are you sure youre not Farm1?


I am sure.

He asks the same type of questions.


Thankyou. I think.

David


Do you work for the government perhaps?
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:57 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

Terryc wrote:
Jonno wrote:

The problem is the powers that are have made scarce resources by not
allowing dams and privatisation would like to keep it this way, making
water a resource by which to hold people to ransom... This is the way
it is panning out.


You are going to have to explain how privatisation will fix this and
provide cheap water.

Dont even think about privatisation fixing it. They will tie you down
and screw you until you are handing over the family jewels. Whatever you
perceive them to be. Privatization only serves to do this.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:58 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

Terryc wrote:
Jonno wrote:

How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively
for water.


Who pays excessively for water?

You will. Just wait...
Another government watcher?


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Old 10-01-2008, 09:07 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

Jonno wrote:
Terryc wrote:
Jonno wrote:

How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively
for water.


Who pays excessively for water?

You will. Just wait...
Another government watcher?

It seems so as you're only replying during work hours........
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:07 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

"Jonno" wrote in message
David Hare-Scott wrote:


How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively for
water.

Why? Think about it.... To make money...

Are you sure youre not Farm1?


Not HE is most definitley not!

He asks the same type of questions.


I am a "SHE"!!!!!!!!


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Old 10-01-2008, 09:13 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

FarmI wrote:
"Jonno" wrote in message
David Hare-Scott wrote:


How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively for
water.

Why? Think about it.... To make money...

Are you sure youre not Farm1?


Not HE is most definitley not!

He asks the same type of questions.


I am a "SHE"!!!!!!!!


Thats not a problem.
It only explains some arguments.
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:21 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

"Jonno" wrote in message

Which powers? The government and corporate bodies


How are they holding people to ransom? By making them pay excessively for
water.


Oh rubbish! Australia is the dryest inhabited continent on earth and most
Australians pay very little for the scarce resource of water. If most
people paid the true economic value for the water they use, they'd be
horrified.

I live on a farm so every drop we use has to be provided by ourselves. To
do this with any degree of adequacy means 3 x 5,000 gallon tanks (+ other
freestanding ones), a bore, several dams, at least 5 pumps, God knows how
many hundreds of metres of 2 inch poly pipe and that is before one drop
comes out of a tap. I'd hate to think how many thousands of $s there is
tied up in all that infrastructure and that isn't counting the upkeep as
bits need replacing.

I have bugger all sympathy for complaints about how much water costs because
I think that most Australians are still getting water cheap. It's just
expensive in comparison to what they've paid in the past.

And if the various State governments do ever privatise water, then watch for
the squeals then as the commercial imperative comes into play - that's going
to happen soon with NSW electricity so we are thinking we may need to go off
the grid.

Why? Think about it.... To make money...

Are you sure youre not Farm1?


I don't have the skills it takes to invent a number of multiple posting
identities and then remeber to switch between them, but I am always glad
when I see someone else who asks questions and trys to engage in a
"discussion" which is what these groups are for.

He asks the same type of questions.


I ask questions when you write responses in short hand and I can't
understand what you mean. It may make sense to you when you type it but it
doesn't always do so when it's seen on the screen.


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Old 10-01-2008, 09:28 AM posted to aus.gardens
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Default Irrigating Australia - food for thought

"Jonno" wrote in message
David Hare-Scott wrote:


Do you have any evidence of this? What do "they" do to make water more
expensive?

I dont need evidence. I am not making a federal case. The evidence is all
around....Only blind people,and people who are inclined to be blind for
their own purposes dont "see" it.


Yeh gads! Now that is a politician type resposne if ever I saw one! "Trust
me, I'm a newsgroup poster!"

You are presenting an opinion and if you aren't prepared to give your
reasoning for your claims then what you say isn't worth your time to type it
or our time spent reading it.

And to issue insults if you are asked to back up your cliams is just plain
silly.

Weren't you the one to send in a post not so long ago saying that people
should not believe gardening myths but do some research to find out if the
gardening advice was just an old wives tale or was based on science? You
are being asked for the science and are expecting us to believe the old
wives tale simply because you said it.




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