Not strictly garden related, unless you are like us and have a "garden
table" for cuppas, etc.

Has anyone heard of these just randomly shattering?

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:13:03 +0000 (UTC), terryc wrote:

Not strictly garden related, unless you are like us and have a "garden
table" for cuppas, etc.

Has anyone heard of these just randomly shattering?

Yes, there were quite a few cases reported on various curent affairs programs a couple of
months ago.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:33:36 +0800, tony wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:13:03 +0000 (UTC), terryc
wrote:

Not strictly garden related, unless you are like us and have a "garden
table" for cuppas, etc.

Has anyone heard of these just randomly shattering?

Yes, there were quite a few cases reported on various curent affairs
programs a couple of months ago.

Thanks. Neighbour's has just randomly shattered apparently. They couldn't
find any "missile" and when I looked at the frame that was left, there
was no "padding" in it and as I've seem glass in other metal frames
shatter from metal intrusions, I did wonder. This one got full sun each
day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there would
have been some expansion movement.

terryc wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:33:36 +0800, tony wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:13:03 +0000 (UTC), terryc
wrote:

Not strictly garden related, unless you are like us and have a
"garden table" for cuppas, etc.

Has anyone heard of these just randomly shattering?

Yes, there were quite a few cases reported on various curent affairs
programs a couple of months ago.

Thanks. Neighbour's has just randomly shattered apparently. They
couldn't find any "missile" and when I looked at the frame that was
left, there was no "padding" in it and as I've seem glass in other
metal frames shatter from metal intrusions, I did wonder. This one
got full sun each day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights
{:-), so there would have been some expansion movement.

I have no specific knowledge of the glass tables that you are speaking of
other than you see them at bunnings etc. Is the glass toughened? The heavy
glass for large doors and tables is toughened and you would have trouble
breaking it with a hammer. I suspect that given the price the glass for
smaller cheap tables is not toughened and if is stressed by temperature
change and/or point pressure from an unpadded metal frame it will fail
without an obvious cause.

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
terryc wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:33:36 +0800, tony wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:13:03 +0000 (UTC), terryc
wrote:

Not strictly garden related, unless you are like us and have a
"garden table" for cuppas, etc.

Has anyone heard of these just randomly shattering?

Yes, there were quite a few cases reported on various curent affairs
programs a couple of months ago.

Thanks. Neighbour's has just randomly shattered apparently. They
couldn't find any "missile" and when I looked at the frame that was
left, there was no "padding" in it and as I've seem glass in other
metal frames shatter from metal intrusions, I did wonder. This one
got full sun each day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights
{:-), so there would have been some expansion movement.

I have no specific knowledge of the glass tables that you are speaking of
other than you see them at bunnings etc. Is the glass toughened? The
heavy glass for large doors and tables is toughened and you would have
trouble breaking it with a hammer. I suspect that given the price the
glass for smaller cheap tables is not toughened and if is stressed by
temperature change and/or point pressure from an unpadded metal frame it
will fail without an obvious cause.

David
Have frame (padded) was in house when bought. It has been suggested to me
that I get an old door that has glass in it a get the local glass repairman
to cut to fit. SWMBO is thinking of MDF or similar. I'll just do what i'm
told ahem ahem

SG1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
terryc wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:33:36 +0800, tony wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:13:03 +0000 (UTC), terryc
wrote:

Not strictly garden related, unless you are like us and have a
"garden table" for cuppas, etc.

Has anyone heard of these just randomly shattering?
Yes, there were quite a few cases reported on various curent affairs
programs a couple of months ago.
Thanks. Neighbour's has just randomly shattered apparently. They
couldn't find any "missile" and when I looked at the frame that was
left, there was no "padding" in it and as I've seem glass in other
metal frames shatter from metal intrusions, I did wonder. This one
got full sun each day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights
{:-), so there would have been some expansion movement.
I have no specific knowledge of the glass tables that you are speaking of
other than you see them at bunnings etc. Is the glass toughened? The
heavy glass for large doors and tables is toughened and you would have
trouble breaking it with a hammer. I suspect that given the price the
glass for smaller cheap tables is not toughened and if is stressed by
temperature change and/or point pressure from an unpadded metal frame it
will fail without an obvious cause.

David
Have frame (padded) was in house when bought. It has been suggested to me
that I get an old door that has glass in it a get the local glass repairman
to cut to fit. SWMBO is thinking of MDF or similar. I'll just do what i'm
told ahem ahem



I have had two well mounted windows shatter , both times in summer on
the cooling cycle in shade on a very hot day

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:03:09 +1100, David Hare-Scott wrote:

I have no specific knowledge of the glass tables that you are speaking
of other than you see them at bunnings etc. Is the glass toughened?
The heavy glass for large doors and tables is toughened and you would
have trouble breaking it with a hammer. I suspect that given the price
the glass for smaller cheap tables is not toughened and if is stressed
by temperature change and/or point pressure from an unpadded metal frame
it will fail without an obvious cause.

Toughened might not be the correct term, but it shattered like all the
old windscreens apparently. I suspect it would be a safety requirement in
case someone fell onto the top.

terryc wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:03:09 +1100, David Hare-Scott wrote:

I have no specific knowledge of the glass tables that you are
speaking of other than you see them at bunnings etc. Is the glass
toughened? The heavy glass for large doors and tables is toughened
and you would have trouble breaking it with a hammer. I suspect
that given the price the glass for smaller cheap tables is not
toughened and if is stressed by temperature change and/or point
pressure from an unpadded metal frame it will fail without an
obvious cause.

Toughened might not be the correct term, but it shattered like all the
old windscreens apparently. I suspect it would be a safety
requirement in case someone fell onto the top.

This shattering is characteristic of toughened glass so perhaps it is that.
In which case I am out of ideas.

I will try to make up for lack of real substance with a true story.

Once upon a time in a Sydney suburb there was an office of a big government
department who dealt with the public. At this particular office the back
entrance was on to an alley which was also near the back entrance of the
nearby pub. The pub used to pile up empty beer kegs in the alley at certain
times waiting for the delivery truck to get them. The back door was of very
solid construction but included (for reason that I have never understood) a
window. This window was broken on a couple of occasions and the glass was
replaced.

An office worker was leaving via the back door one night and came upon a
strange sight. Lying near the door was an unconscious man whom she
recognised as a rather difficult client. Next to the body was a beer keg.
She noticed a large bloody mark on his forehead and couldn't rouse the man
and fearing that he was seriously hurt, perhaps having been assaulted, she
called an ambulance.

The man was concussed and was admitted to hospital for observation. He was
later released apparently having suffered no permanent harm. The police
interviewed him about how he had come to be found unconscious in the alley.
He had rolled out of the pub somewhat the worse for drink and decided to
break the glass in the back door of the office. He failed to achieve this
objective using various bits of debris found lying in the alley and so hit
upon the idea of using a beer keg. He was a big strong bloke and lifted the
empty keg up above his head in both hands and running forward threw it into
the window. To his huge amazement the keg bounced right off the window and
hit him in the forehead which was the last thing he recalled about it.

The maintenance staff who were tired of replacing the window had ordered in
a very heavy grade of toughened glass and had it built into the door with a
reinforced frame.

David

"terryc" wrote in message
...
(snip)
This one got full sun each
day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there would
have been some expansion movement.

glass doesn't like the sun!!! this is probably the origin of the problem.

dh is a brewer so naturally we scab crown-top bottles from anywhere &
anyone. however, you can't always tell if they've been left in the sun too
long, & very occasionally, they just explode on a hot day or after some
minor contact with something. which is unfortunate if they happen to be full
of beer at the time.

if we know a bottle has been in the sun, best just not to use it. (same with
tables, i suppose).
kylie

0tterbot wrote
terryc wrote

This one got full sun each
day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there
would have been some expansion movement.

glass doesn't like the sun!!! this is probably the origin of the problem.

Unlikely, I have 13 8'x8' patio doors, 7 of them on the north side of the
house. I dont have any conventional windows except in the bathrooms,
the bedrooms have one or two patio doors. The ones on the north side
get sun every sunny day and not one of them has ever broken.

dh is a brewer so naturally we scab crown-top bottles from anywhere & anyone. however, you can't always tell if
they've been left in the
sun too long, & very occasionally, they just explode on a hot day or
after some minor contact with something. which is unfortunate if they
happen to be full of beer at the time.

if we know a bottle has been in the sun, best just not to use it.
(same with tables, i suppose).

Nope, fraid not, most obviously with windows.

If the glass is constricted by a metal frame, the expansion of the
glass, and slower rate of expansion of metal could cause pressure to
build up in the frame, with the resultant breakage, Thats why a properly
designed table will have rubber expansion sealing material on the
outside of the frame...

On 19/01/2010 1:54 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
0tterbot wrote

wrote


This one got full sun each

day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there
would have been some expansion movement.


glass doesn't like the sun!!! this is probably the origin of the problem.

Unlikely, I have 13 8'x8' patio doors, 7 of them on the north side of the
house. I dont have any conventional windows except in the bathrooms,
the bedrooms have one or two patio doors. The ones on the north side
get sun every sunny day and not one of them has ever broken.


dh is a brewer so naturally we scab crown-top bottles from anywhere& anyone. however, you can't always tell if
they've been left in the
sun too long,& very occasionally, they just explode on a hot day or
after some minor contact with something. which is unfortunate if they
happen to be full of beer at the time.


if we know a bottle has been in the sun, best just not to use it.
(same with tables, i suppose).

Nope, fraid not, most obviously with windows.




--

Jonno wrote

If the glass is constricted by a metal frame, the expansion of the glass, and slower rate of expansion of metal

In fact metal has a higher coefficient of expansion than glass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeffic...ious_materials

could cause pressure to build up in the frame, with the resultant breakage,

That wasnt in fact seen with the old style steel framed
windows that you dont see much of anymore.

Thats why a properly designed table will have rubber expansion sealing material on the outside of the frame...

Dunno, are they in fact mostly framed at all ?

Rod Speed wrote
0tterbot wrote
wrote

This one got full sun each

day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there would have been some expansion movement.

glass doesn't like the sun!!! this is probably the origin of the problem.

Unlikely, I have 13 8'x8' patio doors, 7 of them on the north side
of the house. I dont have any conventional windows except in the
bathrooms, the bedrooms have one or two patio doors. The ones on the north side get sun every sunny day and not one
of them has ever broken.

dh is a brewer so naturally we scab crown-top bottles from
anywhere& anyone. however, you can't always tell if they've been
left in the sun too long,& very occasionally, they just explode on a hot day or
after some minor contact with something. which is unfortunate if
they happen to be full of beer at the time.

if we know a bottle has been in the sun, best just not to use it.
(same with tables, i suppose).

Nope, fraid not, most obviously with windows.

It can happen that the glass is only esposed to the suns heat leading to
the metal restricting it and it cracking,, shattering etc.
If both are exposed at the same rate that would be true..Like air
temperature by itself.
..

On 29/01/2010 8:55 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
Jonno wrote


If the glass is constricted by a metal frame, the expansion of the glass, and slower rate of expansion of metal

In fact metal has a higher coefficient of expansion than glass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeffic...ious_materials


could cause pressure to build up in the frame, with the resultant breakage,

That wasnt in fact seen with the old style steel framed
windows that you dont see much of anymore.


Thats why a properly designed table will have rubber expansion sealing material on the outside of the frame...

Dunno, are they in fact mostly framed at all ?


Rod Speed wrote

0tterbot wrote

wrote


This one got full sun each


day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there would have been some expansion movement.


glass doesn't like the sun!!! this is probably the origin of the problem.


Unlikely, I have 13 8'x8' patio doors, 7 of them on the north side
of the house. I dont have any conventional windows except in the
bathrooms, the bedrooms have one or two patio doors. The ones on the north side get sun every sunny day and not one
of them has ever broken.


dh is a brewer so naturally we scab crown-top bottles from
anywhere& anyone. however, you can't always tell if they've been
left in the sun too long,& very occasionally, they just explode on a hot day or
after some minor contact with something. which is unfortunate if
they happen to be full of beer at the time.


if we know a bottle has been in the sun, best just not to use it.
(same with tables, i suppose).


Nope, fraid not, most obviously with windows.




--

Jonno wrote

It can happen that the glass is only esposed to the suns heat leading to the metal restricting it and it cracking,,
shattering etc.

Thats not even possible with a frame.

If both are exposed at the same rate that would be true..Like air temperature by itself.

Its even more true of the sun where you cant stop the metal
frame being exposed to the sun with a glass topped table.

Its MUCH more likely to actually be a problem with the glass itself,
and we do see the same problem with stuff like oven doors etc,
the cheap shit from china having a real tendency to explode.

Thats actually due to the glass they are made from, not the mounting.


On 29/01/2010 8:55 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
Jonno wrote


If the glass is constricted by a metal frame, the expansion of the
glass, and slower rate of expansion of metal
In fact metal has a higher coefficient of expansion than glass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeffic...ious_materials


could cause pressure to build up in the frame, with the resultant
breakage,
That wasnt in fact seen with the old style steel framed
windows that you dont see much of anymore.


Thats why a properly designed table will have rubber expansion
sealing material on the outside of the frame...
Dunno, are they in fact mostly framed at all ?


Rod Speed wrote

0tterbot wrote

wrote


This one got full sun each


day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there
would have been some expansion movement.

glass doesn't like the sun!!! this is probably the origin of the
problem.

Unlikely, I have 13 8'x8' patio doors, 7 of them on the north side
of the house. I dont have any conventional windows except in the
bathrooms, the bedrooms have one or two patio doors. The ones on
the north side get sun every sunny day and not one of them has
ever broken.

dh is a brewer so naturally we scab crown-top bottles from
anywhere& anyone. however, you can't always tell if they've been
left in the sun too long,& very occasionally, they just explode
on a hot day or after some minor contact with something. which is
unfortunate if they happen to be full of beer at the time.


if we know a bottle has been in the sun, best just not to use it.
(same with tables, i suppose).


Nope, fraid not, most obviously with windows.

Not even possible with the frame partly exposed?
Its also possible if the sun shines thru the glass first.
Theres many variations
I even heard of glass cracking due to a flag pole putting a shadow on
the window, causing uneven heating.
The temperature was on the lower side in Canada.
As far as poor quality glass goes, that's possible, but unlikely with
modern methods of making glass.
Damaged glass is usually the problem when the article is made. Then the
other things like bad handling, temperature
cause the glass to shatter....

On 29/01/2010 10:30 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
Jonno wrote


It can happen that the glass is only esposed to the suns heat leading to the metal restricting it and it cracking,,
shattering etc.

Thats not even possible with a frame.


If both are exposed at the same rate that would be true..Like air temperature by itself.

Its even more true of the sun where you cant stop the metal
frame being exposed to the sun with a glass topped table.

Its MUCH more likely to actually be a problem with the glass itself,
and we do see the same problem with stuff like oven doors etc,
the cheap shit from china having a real tendency to explode.

Thats actually due to the glass they are made from, not the mounting.



Bakers warn that you should place a towel over the oven window when
pulling anything with moisture out of a hot oven.
A little bit of moisture on very hot glass can cause the window to shatter.
On 29/01/2010 8:55 AM, Rod Speed wrote:

Jonno wrote



If the glass is constricted by a metal frame, the expansion of the
glass, and slower rate of expansion of metal

In fact metal has a higher coefficient of expansion than glass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeffic...ious_materials



could cause pressure to build up in the frame, with the resultant
breakage,

That wasnt in fact seen with the old style steel framed
windows that you dont see much of anymore.



Thats why a properly designed table will have rubber expansion
sealing material on the outside of the frame...

Dunno, are they in fact mostly framed at all ?



Rod Speed wrote


0tterbot wrote


wrote



This one got full sun each



day, to charge the glowing frog/etc garden lights {:-), so there
would have been some expansion movement.


glass doesn't like the sun!!! this is probably the origin of the
problem.


Unlikely, I have 13 8'x8' patio doors, 7 of them on the north side
of the house. I dont have any conventional windows except in the
bathrooms, the bedrooms have one or two patio doors. The ones on
the north side get sun every sunny day and not one of them has
ever broken.


dh is a brewer so naturally we scab crown-top bottles from
anywhere& anyone. however, you can't always tell if they've been
left in the sun too long,& very occasionally, they just explode
on a hot day or after some minor contact with something. which is
unfortunate if they happen to be full of beer at the time.



if we know a bottle has been in the sun, best just not to use it.
(same with tables, i suppose).



Nope, fraid not, most obviously with windows.




--