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Mulching with hay bales...
.... it's been a /very/ long time since I've used bales of hay to mulch
with. My question is, what sort of area should I expect to cover per bale? I used to peel off a 'slab' about 2-3" thick to mulch any given spot, if that's any indication. I'll most likely get the older/smaller bales rather than the big round type - depending on cost and availability - but if anyone can give me average coverage figures for either or both types, I'd very much appreciate it. Cheers |
Mulching with hay bales...
Jeßus wrote:
... it's been a /very/ long time since I've used bales of hay to mulch with. My question is, what sort of area should I expect to cover per bale? I used to peel off a 'slab' about 2-3" thick to mulch any given spot, if that's any indication. I'll most likely get the older/smaller bales rather than the big round type - depending on cost and availability - but if anyone can give me average coverage figures for either or both types, I'd very much appreciate it. Cheers Sounds like a job for gardenlen He's the expert in hay. |
Mulching with hay bales...
pretty hard to determine how far mulch will go as it comes packed
tight to loose there is no real standard, and bales can be larger or smaller again no standard. the way i mulch i try to keep it all around 8"s thick and that determines how far a bale goes. buiscuits can vary in thickness also curently bales of sugar cane mulch gibing 4" to 5" that can't be seperated thinner. On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:59:11 +1100, Jeßus wrote: snipped -- len With peace and brightest of blessings, "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand." http://www.lensgarden.com.au/ |
Mulching with hay bales...
In article , gardenlen0
@bigpond.com said... : :pretty hard to determine how far mulch will go as it comes packed :tight to loose there is no real standard, and bales can be larger or :smaller again no standard. : :the way i mulch i try to keep it all around 8"s thick and that :determines how far a bale goes. buiscuits can vary in thickness also :curently bales of sugar cane mulch gibing 4" to 5" that can't be :seperated thinner. Thank for the advice Len. As you say, too many variables involved to say with any degree of certainty. I'll just get as big a load as I can. One way or the other it'll be quickly used up, I planted somewhere between 200-300 trees last year, and most of those will need some re- mulching before too long. Then there's the impending (new) polytunnel, which I hope will be ready to go by mid-autumn. Also the shade house veggie garden and the 'open' veggie gardens. And the fruit trees... and on it goes... : :On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:59:11 +1100, Jeßus wrote: : :snipped -- "There will never be uniform gun laws in Australia until we see a massacre in Tasmania." - New South Wales Premier Barry Unsworth, December 1987 |
Mulching with hay bales...
On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:59:11 +1100, Jeßus wrote:
... it's been a /very/ long time since I've used bales of hay to mulch with. My question is, what sort of area should I expect to cover per bale? I used to peel off a 'slab' about 2-3" thick to mulch any given spot, if that's any indication. I'll most likely get the older/smaller bales rather than the big round type - depending on cost and availability - but if anyone can give me average coverage figures for either or both types, I'd very much appreciate it. Cheers Checked with some farming friends. A lot of variables - depends on what type of hay (meadow, oaten, wheaten, plain straw etc)and also the thickness of the crop which has been bailed. The bailer apparently pushes/rams a biscuit on set rotations. Therefore , in theory, the heavier the crop, the thicker the biscuit; though skilled operators have ways to maintain same size bales through heavy and light crops - apparently more an art than a science. BALE SIZE: A rough average for a (small) bale would be 14 to 16 inches high x 18 inches wide by about 34 to 40 inches long (measured along the string/s). A fair summation would be 16"x18"x36". The number of biscuits in a 36" bale could vary from 8 to 12 - let's say 10, which makes each biscuit about 3" COVERAGE: Then coverage would be approx. 2sq.ft per biscuit or around 20sq.ft (just under 2sq.m) per bale (to a depth of 3"). You know how much and how thick you want to mulch. Simple arithmetic from there will give you rough bale numbers. PRICE: Hay seems to be $5 per bale through $14, again depending on quality, content and quantity purchased. Not sure what it is in Tasie. Would suggest for mulching, try for "old season" (last year's - 2008) hay. This can be cheaper (and/or give you negotiating advantage) than "new season". Also try for "damaged hay" - usually been subject to some rain damage, or come from the bottom layer of a stack and may have a bit of mould. OK for mulching. You would need to check your newspapers or contact local farmers. Meadow hay tends to be cheaper; the "Boss" swears by it reckoning the worms get into it a lot faster; who am I to argue? Again like most of us, your "needs" will probably be tempered by the balance in the cheque book. ROUND BALES" Round bales also vary in size; generally 4' to 6' diameter and 4' upwards in length, and of course are harder to handle without machinery. They usually run to a volume equivalent of 60 to 100 "small bales" - say 80 to again give you a rough calculation for coverage, though per unit cost would be less; lower baling and handling costs as round bales can at a pinch be made by one person who, with the right machinery, can take the hay from mowing through to stacking. If you have a front end loader or can fabricate something on a 3 point linkage to handle the bale/s, this may be OK for you. HTH Keep smiling anm |
Mulching with hay bales...
"Jeßus" wrote in message
... In article , gardenlen0 @bigpond.com said... : :pretty hard to determine how far mulch will go as it comes packed :tight to loose there is no real standard, and bales can be larger or :smaller again no standard. : :the way i mulch i try to keep it all around 8"s thick and that :determines how far a bale goes. buiscuits can vary in thickness also :curently bales of sugar cane mulch gibing 4" to 5" that can't be :seperated thinner. Thank for the advice Len. As you say, too many variables involved to say with any degree of certainty. I'll just get as big a load as I can. One way or the other it'll be quickly used up, I planted somewhere between 200-300 trees last year, and most of those will need some re- mulching before too long. Then there's the impending (new) polytunnel, which I hope will be ready to go by mid-autumn. Also the shade house veggie garden and the 'open' veggie gardens. And the fruit trees... and on it goes... A lady I know wrote a rather good book on kitchen gardening and she says to never use straw straight from the bale but to age the bales first by letting them sit on the earth and turning them occasionally for a couple of months till they lose that straw colour. I have been doing this now for a couple of years and I think she's right. I now think that fresh straw isn't as good to use for mulch as aged straw. Plants seem to prefer aged straw. |
Mulching with hay bales...
g'day anm,
the figure of equivalents of bales to rolls, this is always a hard one to equate as bales can come packed tight or loose and slightly larger or smaller but rolls are about medium to loose pack. generaly they bandy figures of 10 to 12 bales at least no where near 15 to 20 bales per 4' roll, for me i'd say at best 10 bales is a better comparrison. the best way might be to imagine how many bales of hay stacked beside a roll then add maybe 1 or 2. for me a roll doesn't take much longer to use than it does 8 or 10 bales. we just find the end of the net wrap and roll the hay first one way 'till space runs out then the other. be good if a roll did equate to 60 bales it would run out so fast. the best hay is spoilt lucerne or spoilt pasture grass hay, next in line sugar cane mulch, most gardeners can't afford to buy quality fodder hay for the garden. On 05 Feb 2010 03:37:59 GMT, anm wrote: snipped -- len With peace and brightest of blessings, "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand." http://www.lensgarden.com.au/ |
Mulching with hay bales...
On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:58:55 +0000, gardenlen wrote:
g'day anm, the figure of equivalents of bales to rolls, this is always a hard one to equate as bales can come packed tight or loose and slightly larger or smaller but rolls are about medium to loose pack. generaly they bandy figures of 10 to 12 bales at least no where near 15 to 20 bales per 4' roll, for me i'd say at best 10 bales is a better comparrison. the best way might be to imagine how many bales of hay stacked beside a roll then add maybe 1 or 2. for me a roll doesn't take much longer to use than it does 8 or 10 bales. we just find the end of the net wrap and roll the hay first one way 'till space runs out then the other. be good if a roll did equate to 60 bales it would run out so fast. the best hay is spoilt lucerne or spoilt pasture grass hay, next in line sugar cane mulch, most gardeners can't afford to buy quality fodder hay for the garden. On 05 Feb 2010 03:37:59 GMT, anm wrote: snipped -- len With peace and brightest of blessings, "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand." http://www.lensgarden.com.au/ Thanks Len You are correct of course Teach me to double check the math :( I had one "zero" too many 8 to 10 bales (equivalent) does calculate 4'dia x4' length calculates at 201 sq ft for a 3" depth (roughly equivalent to 10 small bales) (The mass of course, as you said, is subject to how tightly the bale has been rolled) And "yes" to the lucerne; it's supposed to be best Has plenty of minerals etc And as you know, it's a very deep rooting plant However usually pretty hard (our area) to get "spoilt" lucerne Wish we could :) Keep smiling anm |
Mulching with hay bales...
that's ok anm,
for me it would be good that your figures where right, at $60 a roll or $8-9 a bale of s/c/m or spoilt lucern hay it isn't as cheap as other places, around here. take care On 05 Feb 2010 18:20:11 GMT, anm wrote: snipped -- len With peace and brightest of blessings, "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand." http://www.lensgarden.com.au/ |
Mulching with hay bales...
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Mulching with hay bales...
In article ,
ask@itshall said... : :"Jeßus" wrote in message ... : In article , gardenlen0 : @bigpond.com said... : : : :pretty hard to determine how far mulch will go as it comes packed : :tight to loose there is no real standard, and bales can be larger or : :smaller again no standard. : : : :the way i mulch i try to keep it all around 8"s thick and that : :determines how far a bale goes. buiscuits can vary in thickness also : :curently bales of sugar cane mulch gibing 4" to 5" that can't be : :seperated thinner. : : Thank for the advice Len. : : As you say, too many variables involved to say with any degree of : certainty. I'll just get as big a load as I can. : : One way or the other it'll be quickly used up, I planted somewhere : between 200-300 trees last year, and most of those will need some re- : mulching before too long. Then there's the impending (new) polytunnel, : which I hope will be ready to go by mid-autumn. Also the shade house : veggie garden and the 'open' veggie gardens. And the fruit trees... and : on it goes... : :A lady I know wrote a rather good book on kitchen gardening and she says to :never use straw straight from the bale but to age the bales first by letting :them sit on the earth and turning them occasionally for a couple of months :till they lose that straw colour. I have been doing this now for a couple :of years and I think she's right. I now think that fresh straw isn't as :good to use for mulch as aged straw. Plants seem to prefer aged straw. Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? |
Mulching with hay bales...
Jeßus wrote:
A lady I know wrote a rather good book on kitchen gardening and she says to never use straw straight from the bale but to age the bales first by letting them sit on the earth and turning them occasionally for a couple of months till they lose that straw colour. I have been doing this now for a couple of years and I think she's right. I now think that fresh straw isn't as good to use for mulch as aged straw. Plants seem to prefer aged straw. How do you know this? What are the signs? Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. David |
Mulching with hay bales...
"Jeßus" wrote in message
... In article , ask@itshall said... :"Jeßus" wrote in message ... : As you say, too many variables involved to say with any degree of : certainty. I'll just get as big a load as I can. : : One way or the other it'll be quickly used up, I planted somewhere : between 200-300 trees last year, and most of those will need some re- : mulching before too long. Then there's the impending (new) polytunnel, : which I hope will be ready to go by mid-autumn. Also the shade house : veggie garden and the 'open' veggie gardens. And the fruit trees... and : on it goes... : :A lady I know wrote a rather good book on kitchen gardening and she says to :never use straw straight from the bale but to age the bales first by letting :them sit on the earth and turning them occasionally for a couple of months :till they lose that straw colour. I have been doing this now for a couple :of years and I think she's right. I now think that fresh straw isn't as :good to use for mulch as aged straw. Plants seem to prefer aged straw. Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? what she says on the subject is the following: "There are two good reasons for spoiling bales: 1. Germination or seed spoiling is encouraged and any grass that does grow on the bale is killed as the bale is rotated. 2. During the first few weeks of rotting, the hay and straw produces toxins that inhibit plant gowth including the growth of weeds. the toxicity can last for a few weeks." The toxicity doesn't surprise me a great deal given how resistant to breaking down fresh straw can be if put straight on to beds. My soil needs feeding rather than mulching as I have lots of other options for mulch. One thing she doesn't mention is how attractive older bales are to earth worms. I turn them as I remember and then they sit aroud doign nuttin' and by the time I finally use them, I find that the side touching the ground is alive with worms. It is these worms and the decay that I really want in aged bales. |
Mulching with hay bales...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
... Jeßus wrote: A lady I know wrote a rather good book on kitchen gardening and she says to never use straw straight from the bale but to age the bales first by letting them sit on the earth and turning them occasionally for a couple of months till they lose that straw colour. I have been doing this now for a couple of years and I think she's right. I now think that fresh straw isn't as good to use for mulch as aged straw. Plants seem to prefer aged straw. How do you know this? What are the signs? See my partial response in another post as it's got some relevance. I've always had a great respect for earthworms. I've never seen an earthworm in hay (of any variety) or straw (of any variety but I think I've probably only ever used wheaten straw) that I used fresh on beds as mulch but the same cannot be said for the spoiled bales. I figure earthworms know what's good for them. I assume that the positive effect on the plants could relate to what is in effect the application of a slab of earthworms who have something to feed on immediately the spoiled mulch is applied - they've already been feeding on it, they don't need to go off and find food as they've already been feeding and can stay there continuing to feed and thus doing the plant good. That, plus the commencement of the rotting process in the bales that is in effect a composting process already well on its way and that also makes the plants respond positively. I don't really know why as I'm not as clinically observant as say Jackie French is when she notices something. I don't do the sorts of trials that she does to see if there really is a difference, but then I'm also not trying to sell books based on my experiences. I just do what I find works here in my garden. Give it a try with one bale and you too might become a convert. Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. True, and we've discussed those differences that here before. But I suspect that many other posters aren't rural dweller so perhaps don't really know the difference and they get what they can and at a price that they can afford. I do the same and I do know the difference. |
Mulching with hay bales...
|
Mulching with hay bales...
In article ,
ask@itshall said... : :"Jeßus" wrote in message ... : In article , : ask@itshall said... : :"Jeßus" wrote in message : ... : : As you say, too many variables involved to say with any degree of : : certainty. I'll just get as big a load as I can. : : : : One way or the other it'll be quickly used up, I planted somewhere : : between 200-300 trees last year, and most of those will need some re- : : mulching before too long. Then there's the impending (new) polytunnel, : : which I hope will be ready to go by mid-autumn. Also the shade house : : veggie garden and the 'open' veggie gardens. And the fruit trees... and : : on it goes... : : : :A lady I know wrote a rather good book on kitchen gardening and she says : to : :never use straw straight from the bale but to age the bales first by : letting : :them sit on the earth and turning them occasionally for a couple of : months : :till they lose that straw colour. I have been doing this now for a : couple : :of years and I think she's right. I now think that fresh straw isn't as : :good to use for mulch as aged straw. Plants seem to prefer aged straw. : : Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you : know. : : Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared : to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective : covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, : bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? : :what she says on the subject is the following: :"There are two good reasons for spoiling bales: :1. Germination or seed spoiling is encouraged and any grass that does grow :on the bale is killed as the bale is rotated. :2. During the first few weeks of rotting, the hay and straw produces toxins :that inhibit plant gowth including the growth of weeds. the toxicity can :last for a few weeks." : :The toxicity doesn't surprise me a great deal given how resistant to :breaking down fresh straw can be if put straight on to beds. My soil needs :feeding rather than mulching as I have lots of other options for mulch. : :One thing she doesn't mention is how attractive older bales are to earth :worms. I turn them as I remember and then they sit aroud doign nuttin' and :by the time I finally use them, I find that the side touching the ground is :alive with worms. It is these worms and the decay that I really want in :aged bales. Some good points there, many thanks. |
Mulching with hay bales...
"Jeßus" wrote in message
... In article , said... :Jeßus wrote: : Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you : know. : : Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better : compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more : effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic : material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? : :Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come :form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. |
Mulching with hay bales...
FarmI wrote:
"Jeßus" wrote in message ... In article , said... Jeßus wrote: Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. |
Mulching with hay bales...
Rod Speed wrote:
FarmI wrote: "Jeßus" wrote in message ... In article , said... Jeßus wrote: Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. David |
Mulching with hay bales...
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt actually need to apply. Mulch will help retain moisture Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use. and cool the soil, both are useful, Not necessarily. without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. It can also make things worse. |
Mulching with hay bales...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
... Rod Speed wrote: FarmI wrote: "Jeßus" wrote in message ... In article , said... Jeßus wrote: Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings would be that it evens out the soil temps as we can get stinking hot days followed by cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of wide swings in temp. The other thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to the seedlings without the feast or famine that happens with no mulch. I use chaff or rice hulls on seedlings as the Choughs don't throw it around but the rice hulls don't break down as readily as chaff. |
Mulching with hay bales...
Rod Speed wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt actually need to apply. I don't understand this. Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more water? Please explain. Mulch will help retain moisture Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use. I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I used, when are you in this situation? and cool the soil, both are useful, Not necessarily. What do you mean? without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. It can also make things worse. How? When? David |
Mulching with hay bales...
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt actually need to apply. I don't understand this. OK. Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more water? Nope, that the worst a less sophisticated setup with no moisture sensors does is waste some water that did not need to have been applied. Please explain. Just did, Pauline. Mulch will help retain moisture Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use. I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I used, when are you in this situation? When the extra water doesnt cost you a cent. and cool the soil, both are useful, Not necessarily. What do you mean? Cooler soil isnt always desirable. without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. It can also make things worse. How? When? When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. |
Mulching with hay bales...
FarmI wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings would be that it evens out the soil temps as we can get stinking hot days followed by cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of wide swings in temp. Thats nothing like your original ALL SEEDLINGS WILL DO BETTER. The other thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to the seedlings without the feast or famine that happens with no mulch. Not necessarily with automated watering. I use chaff or rice hulls on seedlings as the Choughs don't throw it around but the rice hulls don't break down as readily as chaff. |
Mulching with hay bales...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
FarmI wrote David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings would be that it evens out the soil temps as we can get stinking hot days followed by cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of wide swings in temp. Thats nothing like your original ALL SEEDLINGS WILL DO BETTER. I was responding to something David wrote but since you have harked back to an earlier posting, just for you, I will amend what I wrote. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none and there are a multiplicity of reasons why. The other thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to the seedlings without the feast or famine that happens with no mulch. Not necessarily with automated watering. Please read what I actually wrote rather than what you imagine I wrote. You have no idea whatsoever what watering system I have, or what quantities of water I have available and therefore can have absolutley no idea of what my findings are unless I tell you. I have told you what I find. |
Mulching with hay bales...
FarmI wrote
Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings would be that it evens out the soil temps as we can get stinking hot days followed by cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of wide swings in temp. Thats nothing like your original ALL SEEDLINGS WILL DO BETTER. I was responding to something David wrote but since you have harked back to an earlier posting, just for you, I will amend what I wrote. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none and there are a multiplicity of reasons why. You can repeat that till you are blue in the face if you like, its still just plain wrong. The other thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to the seedlings without the feast or famine that happens with no mulch. Not necessarily with automated watering. Please read what I actually wrote rather than what you imagine I wrote. Everyone can see what you wrote. You have no idea whatsoever what watering system I have, You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant. What watering system you have in spades. Your original was not just about your situation, it was a general absolute statement. or what quantities of water I have available and therefore can have absolutley no idea of what my findings are unless I tell you. I have told you what I find. You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant. What watering system you have in spades. Your original was not just about your situation, it was a general absolute statement. |
Mulching with hay bales...
Mr Speed is now infecting the garden. Is there no hope for the world?????
Roddles stick to the computer newsgroup where we now how much of a dickhead you are. These are mostly good folk, so please FO. |
Mulching with hay bales...
Rod Speed wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt actually need to apply. I don't understand this. OK. Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more water? Nope, that the worst a less sophisticated setup with no moisture sensors does is waste some water that did not need to have been applied. Please explain. Just did, Pauline. Mulch will help retain moisture Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use. I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I used, when are you in this situation? When the extra water doesnt cost you a cent. and cool the soil, both are useful, Not necessarily. What do you mean? Cooler soil isnt always desirable. without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. It can also make things worse. How? When? When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, no further explanation is required thankyou. David |
Mulching with hay bales...
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote David Hare-Scott wrote Rod Speed wrote FarmI wrote Jeßus wrote Jeßus wrote Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know. Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly? Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have different content and behave differently. Hmm... :) Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though. I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind. All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none. Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use. I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt actually need to apply. I don't understand this. OK. Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more water? Nope, that the worst a less sophisticated setup with no moisture sensors does is waste some water that did not need to have been applied. Please explain. Just did, Pauline. Mulch will help retain moisture Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use. I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I used, when are you in this situation? When the extra water doesnt cost you a cent. and cool the soil, both are useful, Not necessarily. What do you mean? Cooler soil isnt always desirable. without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture. It can also make things worse. How? When? When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, Nothing odd about it. no further explanation is required thankyou. OK. |
Mulching with hay bales...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
... Rod Speed wrote utter rubbish whihc has been largely snipped. When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, no further explanation is required thankyou. Yep. Another one who needs to be dropped into the Bozo bin. |
Mulching with hay bales...
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... Rod Speed wrote utter rubbish whihc has been largely snipped. When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, no further explanation is required thankyou. Yep. Another one who needs to be dropped into the Bozo bin. Fat lot of good that will do you, gutless. |
Mulching with hay bales...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... "David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... Rod Speed wrote utter rubbish whihc has been largely snipped. When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, no further explanation is required thankyou. Yep. Another one who needs to be dropped into the Bozo bin. He changes monikas as often as others change undies. |
Mulching with hay bales...
woka wrote:
FarmI wrote: "David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... Rod Speed wrote utter rubbish whihc has been largely snipped. When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, no further explanation is required thankyou. Yep. Another one who needs to be dropped into the Bozo bin. Fat lot of good that will do you, gutless. It is interesting that your first post to this thread and to this NG (at least in recent times) should be of this nature. I wonder is there any chance at all you might contribute something about gardens? I wouldn't think so. David |
Mulching with hay bales...
"SG1" wrote in message
... "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... "David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... Rod Speed wrote utter rubbish whihc has been largely snipped. When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc. It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well. I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, no further explanation is required thankyou. Yep. Another one who needs to be dropped into the Bozo bin. He changes monikas as often as others change undies. LOL. That is highly probable but luckily I seem to have unknowable depths to my Bozo Bin. |
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