Is it advisable to use wood ash on garden beds? What about in compost?

"Pat Shaw" wrote in message
news
Is it advisable to use wood ash on garden beds? What about in compost?

Hi Pat

what part of Australia are you in? What are your soil conditions like?

Pat Shaw wrote:

Is it advisable to use wood ash on garden beds? What about in compost?

We do indirectly, via the compost heap. If it is organic waste, and I
can break it down into small enough particles (mulcher) then I compost
it.

Pat Shaw wrote:

Is it advisable to use wood ash on garden beds? What about in compost?

It's good for the garden provided that you don't put too much in one
spot. It has a high pH (like lime), so too much in one spot can raise
the soil pH too much. Compost is usually slightly acid so it's good to
mix it in with that. Keep it away from azaleas, camellias etc. Many
vegetables appreciate it. It might be a good idea to check your soil pH
before you start adding lots of wood ash.

Jane

what part of Australia are you in? What are your soil conditions like?



I am SW of Sydney. Fairly clayey soil originally. Lots of compost,
manure etc since then.
Thanks for replies

"Pat Shaw" wrote in message
news
Is it advisable to use wood ash on garden beds? What about in compost?


Snails hate it. Sprinkled around seedlings and the like it makes an
excellent snail repellent.Dont overdo it though.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:21:57 +1000, Pat Shaw
wrote:

Is it advisable to use wood ash on garden beds? What about in compost?
Hi Pat,
Putting woodash on he garden is OK, provided your'e not burning
treated pine. Some plants, raspberries are the only ones that spring
to mind, like alkaline conditions and woodash can be applied directly.
What I do is mix the ash into the compost heap - so everybody gets a
share
Barrie

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 17:26:37 +1000, wrote:

provided your'e not burning
treated pine.

A BIG nono.

It is treated with chromated copper arsenate.

Burning treated pine creates an environmental hazard, as the smoke and ash from
this material can contain highly toxic chemicals including arsenic and chromium
compounds.

From what I believe, treated pine is only dangerous under the following
circumstances:
- when being worked (Wear a filter mask)
- when burned (This gives off toxic fumes)
- when in prolonged contact with water, e.g. in waterlogged ground (leeching of
the chemical)

Red wrote:

....snip.....

From what I believe, treated pine is only dangerous under the following
circumstances:
- when being worked (Wear a filter mask)
- when burned (This gives off toxic fumes)
- when in prolonged contact with water, e.g. in waterlogged ground (leeching of
the chemical)

Apparently not the case. There have been posts for a few years from the
USA that this stuff leaches the chemicals all the times. I vaguly
remeber some enquiry in Australia into these claims being announced.

--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:13:56 +1000, Terry Collins wrote:

Apparently not the case. There have been posts for a few years from the
USA that this stuff leaches the chemicals all the times. I vaguly
remeber some enquiry in Australia into these claims being announced.

Quote from this CSIRO document here, Read the crops & mulch part
http://www.ffp.csiro.au/wft/wpc/ccafact1.html

Leaching

Nearly all the CCA fixed within timber remains there over its lifetime of
service; if it did not, the wood would rot and fail in much less than the 30-50
year period for which it is often guaranteed. However, a small amount of
leaching inevitably occurs. This can show up in small rises in arsenic levels in
the soil close to posts and poles; studies have found levels return to normal
within about 100 mm of posts and 100-200 mm of poles. Simple precautions, such
as those described below, can be taken to minimise any perceived risks from the
leaching.

Crops
A number of studies have shown that CCA is not absorbed into above-ground food
crops such as grapes, tomatoes and cucumber. There are, however, some reports of
a slight increase in arsenic content in root crops such as carrots and beets
grown against treated timber, although the arsenic is in a safe organic form and
most of it is removed with peeling. Any possible concern can be eliminated by
growing these vegetables more than 100 mm from treated-timber garden edgings, or
by lining the edgings with plastic. This has the additional useful effect of
reducing soil contact with the wood, which could further extend the wood's life.

Mulch
Use of treated timber - sawdust or chips - as mulch is not recommended because
of uncertainty about where the CCA will end up in the long term. Also,
Australian Standards have low tolerances for heavy metals in mulch, and these
may be exceeded with the addition of CCA-treated residues. However, small
amounts in the soil appear to be of minor concern. Interestingly, one study
found soil with CCA-treated sawdust mixed in as an amendment gave higher yields
of lettuce and beetroot than soil without sawdust or with untreated sawdust.
Sawdust increased the soil's water-holding capacity, and this effect lasted
longer with treated sawdust because of its slower degradation.



Quote from this CSIRO document here
http://www.ffp.csiro.au/wft/wpc/ccafact2.html#13

Disposal of treated wood

Currently, small volumes of CCA-treated timber wastes or off-cuts from domestic
or residential uses should be disposed of through normal waste collection
services. Trade or industrial users with large quantities of treated wood waste
(more than 0.5 tonnes per month) may require additional approvals; check with
local and state authorities in these cases. Sometimes it will be possible to
reuse treated wood in another application.

CCA-treated timber must not be burned in barbeques, fireplaces or wood-burning
stoves, or in any confined space, as toxic fumes and residues may be produced.



Quote from this CSIRO document here
http://www.ffp.csiro.au/wft/wpc/ccafact2.html#12

Some safety tips

Painting sawn CCA-treated timber has long been recommended as a way of reducing
warping and checking. The US Environmental Protection Agency has suggested that
it may also reduce the risk of exposure to any arsenic that may be present on
the wood surface.

When constructing playground equipment, the treated timber, especially the ends,
should be hosed and gently scrubbed. The sawdust and solid wastes produced
during construction must be collected for disposal.

None of the elements of CCA should move from the logs into the dry indoor
environment of a CCA-treated log house. However, some wood fibres may dislodge
over time. These can be swept up or vacuumed, but if this sends dust into the
air a dust mask should be worn. Indoor painting will seal and bind most loose
surface fibres.

Particular caution is needed if fighting a fire in CCA-treated timber, because
of the arsine gas liberated. Breathing apparatus may be required. CCA-treated
timber tends to smoulder longer than untreated timber, a feature called
'afterglow'.

Healthy sanding

Red :-)

Red wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:13:56 +1000, Terry Collins wrote:

Apparently not the case. There have been posts for a few years from the
USA that this stuff leaches the chemicals all the times. I vaguely
remember some enquiry in Australia into these claims being announced recently.

Quote from this CSIRO document here, Read the crops & mulch part
http://www.ffp.csiro.au/wft/wpc/ccafact1.html

Did you actually read it? And your point is?
Unfortunately the CSIRO is no longer a totally ethical concern. Its main
ethic now is getting money out of industry to survive. It did notice
that it didn't actually examine the break down products either.


Leaching

Nearly all the CCA fixed within timber remains there over its lifetime of
service; if it did not, the wood would rot and fail in much less than the 30-50
year period for which it is often guaranteed.

But how is CCA wood actually removed from the environment? It isn't. At
best, it just engs up in land fill slowly raising the background levels
of toxic chemicals.


However, a small amount of
leaching inevitably occurs. This can show up in small rises in arsenic levels in
the soil close to posts and poles; studies have found levels return to normal
within about 100 mm of posts and 100-200 mm of poles. Simple precautions, such
as those described below, can be taken to minimise any perceived risks from the
leaching.

So kids playing on it do ingest the chemicals on the surface! Which is
what some group in the USA is on about at the moment.


Crops
A number of studies have shown that CCA is not absorbed into above-ground food
crops such as grapes, tomatoes and cucumber. There are, however, some reports of
a slight increase in arsenic content in root crops such as carrots and beets
grown against treated timber, although the arsenic is in a safe organic form and
most of it is removed with peeling.

This seems contradictory to me. It says the vegetables are absorbing CCA
from the soil, then you remove the skin, which is generally accepted as
the best vitamin and mineral source. Sort of like having TOFU bugers
instead of red meat burgers.

I must admit, it never made good sense to me the bring any wood laden
with toxic chemicals onto my property in the first place. I'll continue
to be skeptical of any such claims about "perfectly safe".

--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

Aside from all the CCA treated bits that have been mentioned, not something
I want burn in my home, I use all of the ash from my stove around my place,
but allow the white small fine stuff to wash away in the driveway with the
rain as it helps it to set like concrete. The larger black bits are great on
the veggie garden or anywhere and allow more air and water to enter the
soil.

Hope this helps,
Peter

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:36:11 +1000, Terry Collins wrote:

I must admit, it never made good sense to me the bring any wood laden
with toxic chemicals onto my property in the first place. I'll continue
to be skeptical of any such claims about "perfectly safe".

I think we are both chiping at the same block here.

Red

Hi Everyone,
I was browsing the net and came across this message and thought I
could help out. I work globally on the issue of cca wood after my
family became poisoned by the burning of it. I am a Canadian who runs
the world's largest list service and website on cca wood and arsenic
and even have some beautiful pics of Oz up on my site.
In your country this announcement was made recently
"The Board of the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines
Authority (APVMA) has today put industry on notice that it intends to
stop the use of Copper Chrome Arsenate (CCA) as a timber treatment in
certain domestic situations such as decking and children's playground
equipment by the end of 2003 unless there is conclusive proof that
continued use is safe."
I made a submission to your government in it's present review and
worked on the ban in Europe and the phase out in Canada and the
States.
My website has a plant uptake report by Dr David Stilwell, one of the
world's leading authorities on cca wood and many other sections that
would be of interest to this group. I actually began my global work at
the urging of a singer/songwriter from Sydney, Dennis Aubrey, when I
bumped into him on the net. He even recorded a lyric I sent him and
the demo of it is up on my website too. I have made many friends in
Australia and hope to visit someday.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
My website is www.noccawood.ca
Take care everybody and please keep safe.
Deborah

Terry Collins wrote in message ...
Red wrote:

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:13:56 +1000, Terry Collins wrote:

Apparently not the case. There have been posts for a few years from the
USA that this stuff leaches the chemicals all the times. I vaguely
remember some enquiry in Australia into these claims being announced recently.

Quote from this CSIRO document here, Read the crops & mulch part
http://www.ffp.csiro.au/wft/wpc/ccafact1.html

Did you actually read it? And your point is?
Unfortunately the CSIRO is no longer a totally ethical concern. Its main
ethic now is getting money out of industry to survive. It did notice
that it didn't actually examine the break down products either.


Leaching

Nearly all the CCA fixed within timber remains there over its lifetime of
service; if it did not, the wood would rot and fail in much less than the 30-50
year period for which it is often guaranteed.

But how is CCA wood actually removed from the environment? It isn't. At
best, it just engs up in land fill slowly raising the background levels
of toxic chemicals.


However, a small amount of
leaching inevitably occurs. This can show up in small rises in arsenic levels in
the soil close to posts and poles; studies have found levels return to normal
within about 100 mm of posts and 100-200 mm of poles. Simple precautions, such
as those described below, can be taken to minimise any perceived risks from the
leaching.

So kids playing on it do ingest the chemicals on the surface! Which is
what some group in the USA is on about at the moment.


Crops
A number of studies have shown that CCA is not absorbed into above-ground food
crops such as grapes, tomatoes and cucumber. There are, however, some reports of
a slight increase in arsenic content in root crops such as carrots and beets
grown against treated timber, although the arsenic is in a safe organic form and
most of it is removed with peeling.

This seems contradictory to me. It says the vegetables are absorbing CCA
from the soil, then you remove the skin, which is generally accepted as
the best vitamin and mineral source. Sort of like having TOFU bugers
instead of red meat burgers.

I must admit, it never made good sense to me the bring any wood laden
with toxic chemicals onto my property in the first place. I'll continue
to be skeptical of any such claims about "perfectly safe".