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#1
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
Starting in 3 weeks I am revegetating parts of a country property that
is just pasture. This will require many hundreds, ultimately thousands, of trees, shrubs and ground covers to be planted. Except for one area for fruit, veges and some exotic ornamentals these will all be natives selected for being suited to the district. There will be 10 to 15 main species that will be planted in bulk and it is these that I am concerned with here. I will attempt to get material that was drawn from the district or nearby if I can. What is the best way to go about this - should I use tube stock or seeds? This is assuming that I can get the species that I want in either form. Obviously if a species I want is only available in one form then that's it. If I start my own seeds and plant out the seedlings it is likely to be cheaper as tubes are about $1.50 each in bulk and seeds are about $10 to $25 per 25gms which is several hundred to many thousand seeds depending on species. If I can get sufficient viable seedlings starting from seed this approach looks like saving a couple of thousand dollars which could be put to good use! Using tube stock will give me a head start in time but how much time? In other words how old are good tube seedlings that are not rootbound? Time is an issue to some extent as I need to get up some wind breaks and nurse species ASAP Also tubes mean I don't have to worry about germination rates. However, if I buy 3000 seeds the germination rate doesn't have to be great to get a few hundred plants. I suppose it would be smart to steer away from those species that are particularly tricky to germinate and get those as tubes. I will have the space and work-time to raise the seedlings and early spring ( in a sheltered spot) would seem a good time to start them. I guess the question is: starting in September where will I be in 12 months if I (1) start seeds and plant them out when big enough (2) plant tubestock Any thoughts on this issue, especially if you have experience in this area, would be much appreciated. Also I have been looking for a book that covers raising natives from seed in some depth but not found anything yet, a reference here would be good. David |
#2
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in
u: Starting in 3 weeks I am revegetating parts of a country property that is just pasture. This will require many hundreds, ultimately thousands, of trees, shrubs and ground covers to be planted. Except for one area for fruit, veges and some exotic ornamentals these will all be natives selected for being suited to the district. There will be 10 to 15 main species that will be planted in bulk and it is these that I am concerned with here. I will attempt to get material that was drawn from the district or nearby if I can. What is the best way to go about this - should I use tube stock or seeds? This is assuming that I can get the species that I want in either form. Obviously if a species I want is only available in one form then that's it. If I start my own seeds and plant out the seedlings it is likely to be cheaper as tubes are about $1.50 each in bulk and seeds are about $10 to $25 per 25gms which is several hundred to many thousand seeds depending on species. If I can get sufficient viable seedlings starting from seed this approach looks like saving a couple of thousand dollars which could be put to good use! Using tube stock will give me a head start in time but how much time? In other words how old are good tube seedlings that are not rootbound? Time is an issue to some extent as I need to get up some wind breaks and nurse species ASAP Also tubes mean I don't have to worry about germination rates. However, if I buy 3000 seeds the germination rate doesn't have to be great to get a few hundred plants. I suppose it would be smart to steer away from those species that are particularly tricky to germinate and get those as tubes. I will have the space and work-time to raise the seedlings and early spring ( in a sheltered spot) would seem a good time to start them. I guess the question is: starting in September where will I be in 12 months if I (1) start seeds and plant them out when big enough (2) plant tubestock Any thoughts on this issue, especially if you have experience in this area, would be much appreciated. Also I have been looking for a book that covers raising natives from seed in some depth but not found anything yet, a reference here would be good. David hi, My thoughts on the issues. I would use a mixture of tubestock and seeds. Tubestocks will naturally grow quicker than seeds as you do not have to wait for germination etc. I would place quick growing native tubestock around as for the windbreak you need, and at the same time raise seeds. Ideally though I would probably stick just to tubestock but if money is an issue, tubestock fast growing trees, and ground covers as they will provide windbreaks and shelter, then you will be able to plant out smaller seedlings as they will be protected. I have a book about growing australian native plants from seed by Marray Ralph, it covers treatment needed and in some species the expected germination. |
#3
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
David Hare-Scott wrote:
....snip..... I will attempt to get material that was drawn from the district or nearby if I can. I am not sure I really understand your question here in relation to the above sentence. If you want to ensure you are getting local providence, then either you do your own seed collecting and raise your own tube stock, or you pay someone else to do it. It might be more feasible for you to collect the seed from local stuff and send it off to be returned as seed stock from a professional seed stock propagator. It really sounds to me that you are not looking at local providence, but species that occur locally (from any providence). ...snip.... If I start my own seeds and plant out the seedlings it is likely to be cheaper as tubes are about $1.50 each in bulk and seeds are about $10 to $25 per 25gms which is several hundred to many thousand seeds depending on species. If I can get sufficient viable seedlings starting from seed this approach looks like saving a couple of thousand dollars which could be put to good use! Umm, how much do you value your time? Do you regularly raise seed stock? If not, then I would suggest it will cost you more to raise your own seed stock. Using tube stock will give me a head start in time but how much time? In other words how old are good tube seedlings that are not rootbound? Time is an issue to some extent as I need to get up some wind breaks and nurse species ASAP Why not consider doing it in stages over time, unless you really are doing it in a big way and hiring big machinery. This would fit in with raising your own and make it more fun. You see a local species that you like, collect seed, raise your seedlings, plant out and repeat. Any surplus seed you collect, you can also broadcast in situ, and see if it comes up by itself. This has the advantage that you don't suddenly invest in a large amount of one species that all die because this year is dry, or has big winds. This is the advantage of local providence - you know it has been selected for your area. My background is more DIY from collecting local seeds and raising a few plants for bush regeneration sites and the last year has seen a significant number of plants in our mass plantings from the last five years die off from drought. So can you also ensure that they are going to get adeaquate watering to allow them to survive. (thinking of all those road side plantings that never go anywhere). -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing, Publishing "People without trees are like fish without clean water" |
#4
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
I have over the years planted about 600 tube stock native and non-natives on
my property. I ripped the ground prior to planting stuck them in and left them to there own devices (watering them was not really an option). Most of the natives have survived but with incredibly variable growth rates. Two of the same species planted 5 meters apart and one is now a tree the other still a shrub (for want of better description). Others sat in the ground doing nothing for years and then sprang into growth. So don't expect to plant 100 arcasia ?? and have a nice even hedge of them in 5 years time. FWIW planting a few hundred tubes by yourself is a big job if you value you time highly. The seed collecting/buying I have done has not resulted in many plants, I have one Silver Princess Gum that survived but that is about the end of the bought seeds list. Though mostly from neglect at critical times (work gets in the way of life often) -- Cheers Bill "Terry Collins" wrote in message ... David Hare-Scott wrote: ...snip..... I will attempt to get material that was drawn from the district or nearby if I can. I am not sure I really understand your question here in relation to the above sentence. If you want to ensure you are getting local providence, then either you do your own seed collecting and raise your own tube stock, or you pay someone else to do it. It might be more feasible for you to collect the seed from local stuff and send it off to be returned as seed stock from a professional seed stock propagator. It really sounds to me that you are not looking at local providence, but species that occur locally (from any providence). ..snip.... If I start my own seeds and plant out the seedlings it is likely to be cheaper as tubes are about $1.50 each in bulk and seeds are about $10 to $25 per 25gms which is several hundred to many thousand seeds depending on species. If I can get sufficient viable seedlings starting from seed this approach looks like saving a couple of thousand dollars which could be put to good use! Umm, how much do you value your time? Do you regularly raise seed stock? If not, then I would suggest it will cost you more to raise your own seed stock. Using tube stock will give me a head start in time but how much time? In other words how old are good tube seedlings that are not rootbound? Time is an issue to some extent as I need to get up some wind breaks and nurse species ASAP Why not consider doing it in stages over time, unless you really are doing it in a big way and hiring big machinery. This would fit in with raising your own and make it more fun. You see a local species that you like, collect seed, raise your seedlings, plant out and repeat. Any surplus seed you collect, you can also broadcast in situ, and see if it comes up by itself. This has the advantage that you don't suddenly invest in a large amount of one species that all die because this year is dry, or has big winds. This is the advantage of local providence - you know it has been selected for your area. My background is more DIY from collecting local seeds and raising a few plants for bush regeneration sites and the last year has seen a significant number of plants in our mass plantings from the last five years die off from drought. So can you also ensure that they are going to get adeaquate watering to allow them to survive. (thinking of all those road side plantings that never go anywhere). -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing, Publishing "People without trees are like fish without clean water" |
#5
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
"dave" sparks_davidAThotmailDOTcom wrote in message u... My thoughts on the issues. I would use a mixture of tubestock and seeds. I am heading that direction. Tubestocks will naturally grow quicker than seeds as you do not have to wait for germination etc. I would place quick growing native tubestock around as for the windbreak you need, and at the same time raise seeds. Ideally though I would probably stick just to tubestock but if money is an issue, tubestock fast growing trees, and ground covers as they will provide windbreaks and shelter, then you will be able to plant out smaller seedlings as they will be protected. Yup I have a book about growing australian native plants from seed by Marray Ralph, it covers treatment needed and in some species the expected germination. Looks good Thanks David |
#6
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
"Terry Collins" wrote in message ... David Hare-Scott wrote: ...snip..... I will attempt to get material that was drawn from the district or nearby if I can. I am not sure I really understand your question here in relation to the above sentence. If you want to ensure you are getting local providence, then either you do your own seed collecting and raise your own tube stock, or you pay someone else to do it. It looks that way, none of the suppliers of tubes or seed that I can access who give the area of origin seem to collect in my area. I think I will just have to settle for material from an area of similar characteristics. It might be more feasible for you to collect the seed from local stuff and send it off to be returned as seed stock from a professional seed stock propagator. It really sounds to me that you are not looking at local providence, but species that occur locally (from any providence). Whatever was "native" to the area is very hard to determine as there has been 150 years of clearing, farming and introduction of species. I am not so much trying to return it to how it was at some point in the dim past but to select species and varieties/cultivars of those that will succeed in the long term with the least amount of effort. ..snip.... If I start my own seeds and plant out the seedlings it is likely to be cheaper as tubes are about $1.50 each in bulk and seeds are about $10 to $25 per 25gms which is several hundred to many thousand seeds depending on species. If I can get sufficient viable seedlings starting from seed this approach looks like saving a couple of thousand dollars which could be put to good use! Umm, how much do you value your time? Do you regularly raise seed stock? If not, then I would suggest it will cost you more to raise your own seed stock. In my "day" job I value my time very highly but for this I am prepared to invest time to save cash, as a way of learning and also for something constructive to do while waiting for various authorities to give permission for other aspects of this project. Using tube stock will give me a head start in time but how much time? In other words how old are good tube seedlings that are not rootbound? Time is an issue to some extent as I need to get up some wind breaks and nurse species ASAP Why not consider doing it in stages over time, unless you really are doing it in a big way and hiring big machinery. This would fit in with raising your own and make it more fun. Yes You see a local species that you like, collect seed, raise your seedlings, plant out and repeat. Any surplus seed you collect, you can also broadcast in situ, and see if it comes up by itself. I will try this as a supplement to other strategies. This has the advantage that you don't suddenly invest in a large amount of one species that all die because this year is dry, or has big winds. This is the advantage of local providence - you know it has been selected for your area. My background is more DIY from collecting local seeds and raising a few plants for bush regeneration sites and the last year has seen a significant number of plants in our mass plantings from the last five years die off from drought. So can you also ensure that they are going to get adeaquate watering to allow them to survive. (thinking of all those road side plantings that never go anywhere). I will be watering the seedlings (ute + tank + pump + river frontage) as required for the first year or two, I am prepared to lose a few specimens along the way just to ensure that the rows are not too neat :-) but I want to avoid the wasted effort, money and space following from a mass extinction caused by completely wrong choice of material. Thanks for your ideas. David |
#7
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
"Bill McBride" wrote in message ... I have over the years planted about 600 tube stock native and non-natives on my property. I ripped the ground prior to planting stuck them in and left them to there own devices (watering them was not really an option). I am in a position to water, which I will do to improve the establishment rate. Most of the natives have survived but with incredibly variable growth rates. Two of the same species planted 5 meters apart and one is now a tree the other still a shrub (for want of better description). Others sat in the ground doing nothing for years and then sprang into growth. So don't expect to plant 100 arcasia ?? and have a nice even hedge of them in 5 years time. Neat hedges are not important, something to block the southerly wind is though! FWIW planting a few hundred tubes by yourself is a big job if you value you time highly. Yes it will be an effort. The seed collecting/buying I have done has not resulted in many plants, I have one Silver Princess Gum that survived but that is about the end of the bought seeds list. Though mostly from neglect at critical times (work gets in the way of life often) As Ned Kelly said "... such is life...." David |
#8
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Tube stock Vs Seeds
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote: Starting in 3 weeks I am revegetating parts of a country property that is just pasture. This will require many hundreds, ultimately thousands, of trees, shrubs and ground covers to be planted. What do Landcare/Greening Australia/local conservation groups/your Dept of Ag say? Will any of them help you? -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "...children should continue to be breastfed... for up to two years of age or beyond." -- Innocenti Declaration, Florence, 1 August 1990 |
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