Hi everyone
Recently the Fiance's parents went away on holidays, so I mowed their lawn
for them using their mower.
It is only a few months old, a Toro self propelled one (Pace something,
forget exact name)
The only self propelled mower I had ever used were the greens walk behinds
at work, which have no real safety mechanism in them other than put it in
gear and steer it, and whether your hands are on it or not, it will keep
going.
Anyway, this Toro cut well, but a few things I found annoying with it.
1) To start it you had to pull and hold a lever on the handle, then pull
start it. Let go at anytime and the engine stops
Once started as you pushed on the handle (like pushing a normal mower) it
would self propel. The harder you pushed (eg long grass, up hill) the more
it would self propel, hence on a slight downhill run it would only drive
itself as much as need be a good idea I thought BUT
2) If you had to leave the mower for whatever reason, letting go of the
lever the engine would stop. Ok for a new motor, but what about when it gets
older and hard to start.
3) Each wheel height could be individually set, why I don't know. It just
made setting the height more fiddly, time consuming, and to go from the
lowest height, to the highest, it had to be done in 2 goes. The reason for
this is going from one extreme to the other in height would cause the height
adjusters to "stick" a little, so you had to do it in 2 goes.
4) Mower had a fixed rev setting.
5) The "gearbox" seemed to make pushing the mower around without the engine
running (e.g. in and out of shed, etc) harder than your "normal" mowers.
6) Finally, the catcher was made of fabric, it was hard to clean, with grass
getting trapped in seams, which will eventually rot it. Actually probably
the best way to clean the catcher is let the grass dry out, then use
compressed air. A hose was a bad idea.
7) The catcher wasn't all that easy to remove.
A flap in the side of the cutting deck, which was spring loaded had me
stuffed. I had no idea what it was for. Not much good for cleaning with a
hose as having this thing running, holding the lever on, and trying to hose
under the cutting deck would be near impossible.

We use Toro's at work, and the quality seems very high. Just a pity about
this mower.
Some things on this mower were annyoying, others just made it harder to do
the job and being 28yr old I thought I'd hate to be about 70 using this
thing, or have medical problems. For a mower that is supposed to make the
job easier, it did when it come to mowing, it sort of made things easier,
but setting up, cleaning, and moving it round didn't.
Give me a normal 4 stroke, plastic catcher type anyday. I just caution
anyone to consider all things before purchasing any self propelled mowers
after this experience, and to totally stay away from material type catcher
bags.
Any comments, Len esp?

Cheers
Andrew

g'day andrew,

a very good summary mate, me i've never been a toro fan, the best self
propelled i ever saw/used was the snapper 21", it had a 5 or 6 speed
variable drive with a dead mans grip to operate it so the engine stays
running while the drive disengages when you let go the lever (the toro
must be a headache each time you have to empty the catcher hey?).
again it had the 4 wheel adjusting mechanism mainly due to the design
of the mower not allowing for the single lever mechanisms of other
brands.

i also tend to get the idea that this sort of height adjusting is the
go in yankee land, and basically it is a simple long lasting system
compared to some of the local models systems. my experiences is i
always liked the bag catchers they aren't as heavy as a good plastic
catcher (by good i mean in comparison to the top of the range masport
catcher), the bag catcher should never rot it is woven nylon and i've
never seen one break up from the effects of ultra violet like the
rover and victa catchers can do.

i have a bag catcher on my greenfield shredder and i find it easy to
hose out after use, it probably all comes down to design, the snapper
bags where good that way.

that toro safety mechansim of the engine stopping is over the top
realy and as you say mowers that have that feature won't be suiting
the older gardener or those with health probs, can't see that it's
necessary as the normal mower doesn't have the feature, but then again
mower safety from the USA models is somewhat over the top, in their
efforts to try and fool-proof the machines, only way to do that is
remove the fool heh lol.

it had a fixed rev' setting!!!??? so it's either stopped or flat out
huh silly option that, you need to be able to adjust revs for the
density of the grass and adjust speed over the lawn though a variable
speed selector that gives longer engine life that way.

thanks for the comments andrew hoepfully these sort of posts will help
others along the way somehow.

len

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.

I recently bought a mower that had the annoying handle you had to
hold down for it to run. I just cable tied it to the main handle.
it also had the fixed rpms, just used the throttle lever from my old
mower on it. 5 mins of modifying and it was done. A choke cable kit from
an automotive spares shop would work great too.
Mine is the side discharge type..I hate catchers, really annoying and
in my opinion, a waste of time...especially if teh grass is long. If you
cut weekly or fortnightly, the clippings are so short as to not even be
noticed if you cut your grass at a reasonable height.

Regards, Andrew.



Andrew G wrote:
Hi everyone
Recently the Fiance's parents went away on holidays, so I mowed their lawn
for them using their mower.
It is only a few months old, a Toro self propelled one (Pace something,
forget exact name)
The only self propelled mower I had ever used were the greens walk behinds
at work, which have no real safety mechanism in them other than put it in
gear and steer it, and whether your hands are on it or not, it will keep
going.
Anyway, this Toro cut well, but a few things I found annoying with it.
1) To start it you had to pull and hold a lever on the handle, then pull
start it. Let go at anytime and the engine stops
Once started as you pushed on the handle (like pushing a normal mower) it
would self propel. The harder you pushed (eg long grass, up hill) the more
it would self propel, hence on a slight downhill run it would only drive
itself as much as need be a good idea I thought BUT
2) If you had to leave the mower for whatever reason, letting go of the
lever the engine would stop. Ok for a new motor, but what about when it gets
older and hard to start.
3) Each wheel height could be individually set, why I don't know. It just
made setting the height more fiddly, time consuming, and to go from the
lowest height, to the highest, it had to be done in 2 goes. The reason for
this is going from one extreme to the other in height would cause the height
adjusters to "stick" a little, so you had to do it in 2 goes.
4) Mower had a fixed rev setting.
5) The "gearbox" seemed to make pushing the mower around without the engine
running (e.g. in and out of shed, etc) harder than your "normal" mowers.
6) Finally, the catcher was made of fabric, it was hard to clean, with grass
getting trapped in seams, which will eventually rot it. Actually probably
the best way to clean the catcher is let the grass dry out, then use
compressed air. A hose was a bad idea.
7) The catcher wasn't all that easy to remove.
A flap in the side of the cutting deck, which was spring loaded had me
stuffed. I had no idea what it was for. Not much good for cleaning with a
hose as having this thing running, holding the lever on, and trying to hose
under the cutting deck would be near impossible.

We use Toro's at work, and the quality seems very high. Just a pity about
this mower.
Some things on this mower were annyoying, others just made it harder to do
the job and being 28yr old I thought I'd hate to be about 70 using this
thing, or have medical problems. For a mower that is supposed to make the
job easier, it did when it come to mowing, it sort of made things easier,
but setting up, cleaning, and moving it round didn't.
Give me a normal 4 stroke, plastic catcher type anyday. I just caution
anyone to consider all things before purchasing any self propelled mowers
after this experience, and to totally stay away from material type catcher
bags.
Any comments, Len esp?

Cheers
Andrew

"len gardener" wrote in message
...
g'day andrew,

Some snipped
i also tend to get the idea that this sort of height adjusting is the
go in yankee land, and basically it is a simple long lasting system
compared to some of the local models systems. my experiences is i
always liked the bag catchers they aren't as heavy as a good plastic
catcher (by good i mean in comparison to the top of the range masport
catcher), the bag catcher should never rot it is woven nylon and i've
never seen one break up from the effects of ultra violet like the
rover and victa catchers can do.

i have a bag catcher on my greenfield shredder and i find it easy to
hose out after use, it probably all comes down to design, the snapper
bags where good that way.

Come to think of it you are probably right being nylon, something I didn't
think of. It did however have a warning label on the bag stating something
along the lines of "the bag will deteriorate with age and to replace only
with a genuine Toro part".
I guess the thing that got me was the trapping of grass in seams, but as you
say, designs are different and normal plastic catchers do break down anyway

snip
it had a fixed rev' setting!!!??? so it's either stopped or flat out
huh silly option that, you need to be able to adjust revs for the
density of the grass and adjust speed over the lawn though a variable
speed selector that gives longer engine life that way.

Yup fixed rev setting. Very silly I think for the exact reasons you mention.

thanks for the comments andrew hoepfully these sort of posts will help
others along the way somehow.

Such a new mower (bought early this year I think) yet so many design faults.
It really suprised me and obviously the people who design them don't use a
lawnmower, but I'd also add they must never get tested by everyday people.
I've never seen so much overkill safety on a mower, yet I work with them
everyday. Most drastic I'd seen was a mower that must be started all out of
gear etc (of course) but foot had to be on brake, and if you got off it
while engine was running and park brake wasn't on it would stop by a seat
activated pressure switch. A simple thing of the engine running, yet gears
disengaged when you let go of lever would have been much better.

Good to hear your comments len

ANdrew
len

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the
environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before
you send.

seat activated pressure switch. A simple thing of the engine running, yet
gears
disengaged when you let go of lever would have been much better.



Manufacturers being as they are, and the buying public not willing to pay
double, the use of the cheapest technology is typical in most brands.

It is much cheaper to add a switch and a wire and ground the magneto causing
the engine to stop than it is to add a fancy remote controlled clutch.

Hope this helps you understand why, even if it's not the easiest to operate,

Peter

g'day andrew,

yes silly realy the people who design this sort of equipment never
have to use it to make their living or maybe on their own properties,
much like that shidaiwa brushcutter, bet those designers have never
got hold of one and used it in our sub-tropical conditions on acreage.

and as for the mower manufacturers trying to make their machines
foolproof, you know my feelings on that one. most of this stuff starts
in yankee land, they have blade brakes/clutches on their mowers so if
you let go the lever the blade is disengaged but it is also stopped by
a brake that must stop it so many nano seconds.

and now they have these servo type brakes on the flywheels of the
mower motors so when you let go the lever it not only cut the spark
off but the brake must stop the motor spinning in some short space of
time.

now for us people who use common sense around equipment we have to pay
for all this stuff and the weight it must add to the mower plus all
those extra things to malfunction, the repair shops in yankee land
must be making a killing hey? lol.

i've seen posts on USA groups where people have written in saying i
bent the crankshaft on me mower i ran over the water meter, which i
knew was there, i ran over a rock which i knew was there, i ran over a
stump which i knew was there. and you know the common thread we
thought that having a blade clutch and brake would stop the engine
getting damged if we did these things. be funny if it wasn't so sad
and silly hey?? plus they don't even realise why this safety stuff is
built into the machine mmmm one wonders.

all this so some simple nutter can't cut their fingers or toes off.

next thing you won't be able to get steel blades for brushcutter, then
what a guard around chain saw chains like that on the electric bench
type saws.

like i say get rid of the fool and keep the design simple and
reliable.

and put thumb cuffs on the fools.

len

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.

Hi Len,

Problem is, they keep making better fools...and the US seems to be the
testing grounds.
I don't know why a simple lanyard to go around your wrist, jetski or
outboard motor style couldn't be used on mowers..have it long enough
that you can reach forward and move sticks etc, but short enough that if
you trip or whatever, you yank the switch and the unit cuts out.
I actually bought my mower because it was incredibly cheap new($299),
had a wide cut width(20") and was a side discharge mower.
I knew the mower had a silly cutter bar and the handle to run safety
interlock, but also knew I could bypass the interlock and fit my old 4
blade disc to it off my trusty old Rover. I didn't know about the
governed engine rpms, but again, that was easily fixed.
Now it's a great little mower, and when the stamped steel deck finally
rusts out, I wil swap the engine back over to the Rover alloy deck,
which I modified with a jigsaw to be a side discharge mower! The poor
old Rover has had ongoing carb problems which were just getting too hard
to sort out every second weekend. Shame too, it has an iron bore Briggs
on it.
By the way, I went to fit the paper element air filter to my new
Briggs engine, only to find that they have gone to plastic
carburettors...found that very interesting. Ended up not fitting the
large and heavy paper element filter as I didn't want to overload the
plastic threads on teh carb.
I have to modify everything I own, just my nature I suppose.

Regards, Andrew.


len gardener wrote:
snipped....

like i say get rid of the fool and keep the design simple and
reliable.

and put thumb cuffs on the fools.

len

snipped

lol lol andrew,

you must be the mower designers worst nightmare hey lol lol can't help
meself love it great stuff where would the world be without us aussies
sometimes huh lol. i agree lets get back to simplicity. yeh the
testing ground for fools huh like it lol.

wish we lived closer i could use your old b&s ci motor.

keep up the good work

len


snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:04:54 +1000, "Andrew G"
wrote:

1) To start it you had to pull and hold a lever on the handle, then pull
start it. Let go at anytime and the engine stops
Once started as you pushed on the handle (like pushing a normal mower) it

I have a similar system on my White mower but a cable tie on the
handle disables this feature nicely. You need to have a certain amount
of slack in the tie to be able to release the safety handle as it is
the only way of stopping the thing when you have finished


Regards
Bruce