Aprill wrote:

Pioneer ..

http://www.pioneertanks.com.au/html/aboutus.html

thanks.

Sigh, to have the land for an aquaculture tank {:-).

In article ,
BCL wrote:

I have just spent about $1700 on a couple of water tanks plus the
necessary fittings just to store less than $5 worth of water (5000
litres).

It's really that our water isn't priced properly. My own preferred system
(I"m also with Sydney Water) would be that we pay a flat rate for a particular
amount of water that will get us all by, then whopping charges for over-use.
Ditto for businesses,which is, I suspect, where a lot of wastage goes on.
Near us, we have a business that runs a fountain constantly. I think that's
ridiculous.

My mother in law says that councils used to charge extra rates if you had a
second toilet, and that might be another way to go. We have these amazing
houses in Sydney with 4 bedrooms and 6 toilets. Why don't these people go to
the Dr instead of putting in so many dunnies? Obviously they have Problems!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

In article ,
Chookie wrote:

Near us, we have a business that runs a fountain constantly. I think that's
ridiculous.

I don¹t disagree with your argument, but are you sure they are not
recirculating the same water? I have a fountain of sorts in my
backyard, but it is just the same water going around and around. I do
have to top it up every five or six weeks, but there are quite a few
birds that come in to drink and bathe each day and I think they are
more responsible for the drop in water level than evaporation.

Pax

---
A: Because it reverses the natural flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top-posting considered inappropriate?

len gardener writes:
we use a waterless composting toilet

Is that is an indoor loo, Len? Care to write a paragraph or two
about it?
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

Aprill writes:
These days tanks can be brought in on a trailer. I'm building a house on
an acreage with no town water. A 96000 litre tank has just been installed.
The water container is a bladder and the colorbond ring arrives in
panels. Easy peasy, japanesey.. no cranes.. no rolling massive poly
tanks off the back of a truck.

Neat.

I think it was the ABC that had a piece on innovative poly tanks. As well
as the conventional round ones, there are some that are like air bags.
You just lie them on sand anywhere they'll fit under your house and then
they fill up with water a bit like a cushion. There are some like a corner
piece of Leggo, like two tall thin rectangular blocks joined together at
right angles to form a free-standing block (yes, free standing) that you
can position in a corner of your yard or somewhere that you want to make
a sheltered nook to place a seat, etc. It acts like a wall as well as
functioning as a water reservoir. I expect you could trail climbers over
it.


.--------------------.
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plan view | |
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| |
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'----'


None of these is going to droughtproof a town house, but these are a
step in the right direction. Saving water in times of drought is only
half the reason for encouraging rainwater tanks in city areas; saving
street flooding during everyday thunderstorms is the other half. The
thinking is that if every residence could store some of its initial roof
runoff, this will give the asphalt runoff some time to get away before
it is joined by roof runoff, producing less severe street flooding. It
won't help during a prolonged torrential downpour, but then nothing will.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

In an earlier article I wrote:
Kirsty writes:
We have installed 4 tanks for the garden and a tank for excess water, to
flush the toilet. At present the cost of installing these tanks isn't
'worth' the money, as water in Australia is so cheap.

The available water might prove its worth if you are in bushfire area.

Making a good reason for having a gravity-fed tap in the tank in addition
to the popular electric pressure pump. In the event of a bushfire, loss
of electricity could make the water inaccessible unless you have a tap
already fitted to the tank.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

John Savage wrote:
len gardener writes:

we use a waterless composting toilet


I was really interested in doing this when I first bought my land. But
in the end we went with a project home builder and it wasnt an option.
WE've done the bio-septic thing.

...aprill

g'day john,

our house is on a slab so the loo is in its own raise room so to
speak, you need a minmum of app 1 meter clearance between top of bins
and the bottom of the joist i think it is. there are other systems
that could be considered for inclusion into an already set up house,
don't know how well they work though. a good read is "the humanure
handbook" by j.c jenkins. they can be incorporated into a high set
house no worries, we run ours as a dry loo.

would love to write a bit about it there is lots to cover, so if you
could give me some clues as to what you would like to read or have for
discussion i'll work something up so to speak. and should we maybe
start a new header for the topic?

i wrote an email to someone that i ahve saved maybe i could post that
for starters it covers a lot of stuff i am now familiar with.

i will say THEY DO NOT SMELL ok that is the one thing i continually
get and i believe it is because of those raodside or forestry toilets
run by one of the authorities, my answer there is they can make a
flushing mens toilet stink so imagine what they do with a composting
loo??

anyhow let me know what you want

len

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.

convert aprill convert you won't be sorry.

len smilling broadly

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.

John Savage wrote:

Making a good reason for having a gravity-fed tap in the tank in addition
to the popular electric pressure pump. In the event of a bushfire, loss
of electricity could make the water inaccessible unless you have a tap
already fitted to the tank.

What would you do with it?
I don't fancy playing bucket tag with an approaching fire.


An electric pump is no good because more than likely you will loose
electricity in a bushfire (you also loose street water pressure as
well). My understanding is that a diesel would be better, based on the
volatility of the fuel (but if that becomes moot, then you would not
want to be around anyway).

The $64,000 question to me is "how much water do you need to make have
any effect?"

I have 2,000 + 800 litre tanks, which according to one pump (yamaha
YP205HP) would suck this all up in 5minutes at 420 litres/min. Maybe
longer becasue any that falls on the roof would be recycled anyway.

Given that all I would want to do (suburban street) is to wet down my
roof and gutters to prevent leaf, etc material in/on them from catching
a light and being blown into my roof cavity (colorbond roofing is NOT
air tight), this might be okay.

Just curious if anyone can provide some hard figure?
How long would you start the roof pumps before the fire is
expected?/visible?
How long/how much water does it take to soak surrounding vegetation?
etc.

"Terry Collins" wrote in message
...
John Savage wrote:

Making a good reason for having a gravity-fed tap in the tank in
addition
to the popular electric pressure pump. In the event of a bushfire, loss
of electricity could make the water inaccessible unless you have a tap
already fitted to the tank.

What would you do with it?
I don't fancy playing bucket tag with an approaching fire.


An electric pump is no good because more than likely you will loose
electricity in a bushfire (you also loose street water pressure as
well). My understanding is that a diesel would be better, based on the
volatility of the fuel (but if that becomes moot, then you would not
want to be around anyway).

The $64,000 question to me is "how much water do you need to make have
any effect?"

I have 2,000 + 800 litre tanks, which according to one pump (yamaha
YP205HP) would suck this all up in 5minutes at 420 litres/min. Maybe
longer becasue any that falls on the roof would be recycled anyway.

Given that all I would want to do (suburban street) is to wet down my
roof and gutters to prevent leaf, etc material in/on them from catching
a light and being blown into my roof cavity (colorbond roofing is NOT
air tight), this might be okay.

Just curious if anyone can provide some hard figure?
How long would you start the roof pumps before the fire is
expected?/visible?
How long/how much water does it take to soak surrounding vegetation?
etc.

Terry,

Indeed, it is the $64,000 question. Firstly, I wouldnt be expecting
anything other than a firefighting pump to provide you with the required
volume\pressure combination to be any use in wetting down a house &
surrounding garden\landscaping\whatever. To that end, having your tank on a
high stand wouldnt be much use either. A 3,000 gallon tank on a 35 foot
stand delivers a ballpark of 14 foot-pound of pressure, wheras an electric
pressure pump is usually between 25 and 40psi. For the volume you will get
at that pressure, the average pressue pump you might buy for a rainwater
water tank isnt going to help much when fire is threatening.

If you have a look at a firefighter pump, they have two discharge points.
They usually have a low pressure high volume outlet(about 1.5"), usually
directly above the suction inlet, and in the same direction. Above this
outlet, you will find a much smaller tree arrangement of outlets right up on
top of the pump itself(usually 2 1" outlets plus a priming bung). These
deliver significantly higher pressure, but somewhat lower volume as well.
More than adequate for damping down the area, though.

I wouldnt have any qualms about attending a fire with a petrol firefighter;
they are operating on the back of most bush fire brigade rigs these
days(including our landcruiser), so I know from experience they are pretty
safe in that regard. My only requirement is a metal fuel tank; some of the
Brigs & Stratton motors have plastic. I can envisage a burning limb or bush
falling onto the pump, and the metal tank would give you a little more time
to put it out....
I havent seen very many diesel firefighters around to date. All of the
people in our local bush fire brigade have 5hp petrol models of assorted
brands. Most small diesel engines are quite expensive, and unless you are
really in the really bad fire areas, the (marginal) extra safety of the
diesel doesnt seem to justify the cost.

A 6hp Honda with an onga firefighting pump attached cost me $595 3 years
ago. Fire hose, ball valves, an adjustible nozzle and 1.5" suction line with
camlock connectors cost me probably another $200 all up. As far as outlets
on the tank are concerned, a, 1.5" ball valve outlet & camlock nipple in
addition to whatever outlet feeds to the house supply gives you quick access
to the water, and you can use the firefighter to fill mobile tanks if
necessarry. At the engine lower revs you need for the firefighting outlets,
you will get 5 or more hours out of a tank of fuel.

A 3000 gallon tank would take about an hour or more to empty if you were
running on the the firefighter outlet the whole time(NOT the big high
volume\low pressure outlet). In this time, you would make a LOT of the
surroundings bloody wet! If you add some of the foaming\wetting agent they
use, you will get a huge amount of things wet.

I can tell you that if I was living in a high fire risk suburban area with
lots of bushland, I would think a couple of big poly tanks, a firefighter,
and some long hose would be my idea of cheap insurance!
If you have a pool, the firefighter would be able to suck from that with the
addition of a foot-valve.

Cheers,

Rod.......Out Back

In article , ellipsis
wrote:

In article ,
Chookie wrote:

Near us, we have a business that runs a fountain constantly. I think
that's ridiculous.

I don¹t disagree with your argument, but are you sure they are not
recirculating the same water? I have a fountain of sorts in my
backyard, but it is just the same water going around and around. I do
have to top it up every five or six weeks, but there are quite a few
birds that come in to drink and bathe each day and I think they are
more responsible for the drop in water level than evaporation.

They may well be recirculating, but even so, I think it's silly to be running
the thing at midnight on a Saturday.

A few weeks ago someone hit it with some detergent. The foam was about 2m
high and had crept out onto the road!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

In article , John
Savage wrote:

There are some like a corner
piece of Leggo, like two tall thin rectangular blocks joined together at
right angles to form a free-standing block (yes, free standing) that you
can position in a corner of your yard or somewhere that you want to make
a sheltered nook to place a seat, etc. It acts like a wall as well as
functioning as a water reservoir. I expect you could trail climbers over
it.


.--------------------.
| |
'---------------. |
plan view | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
'----'

I think this was the one on ŒThe Inventors¹ a couple of months ago. If
so, I am pretty sure they are now available from Bunnings.

....

In article , John
Savage wrote:

None of these is going to droughtproof a town house, but these are a
step in the right direction. Saving water in times of drought is only
half the reason for encouraging rainwater tanks in city areas; saving
street flooding during everyday thunderstorms is the other half. The


Although by doing so I risk instigating the ŒSpanish Inquisiton¹
sketch, there is also a third reason--that rainwater tastes a hell of a
lot better than most scheme water.

....

---
³Everyone needs a rainwater tank! The chief reason is ...²

Terry Collins writes:
John Savage wrote:

Making a good reason for having a gravity-fed tap in the tank in addition
to the popular electric pressure pump. In the event of a bushfire, loss
of electricity could make the water inaccessible unless you have a tap
already fitted to the tank.

What would you do with it?
Exactly what fire authorities currently recommend. But in the worst
imaginable situation, you'd need to soak your clothing.

I don't fancy playing bucket tag with an approaching fire.
If you were to play silly buggers you'd be asking to be roasted.

The $64,000 question to me is "how much water do you need to make have
any effect?"
Half a cupful should be plenty, provided you get to that glowing cinder
before it ignites any timber of your house.

How long/how much water does it take to soak surrounding vegetation?
None, because being the sensible homeowner, you have already cleared
all flammable surrounding vegetation that could pose a danger. There
is nothing left to to be "soaked". Yes, even your precious mulch has
all been raked off and transported well away.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)