Chookie writes:
Near us, we have a business that runs a fountain constantly. I think
that's ridiculous.

They may well be recirculating, but even so, I think it's silly to be running
the thing at midnight on a Saturday.

Just to play devil's advocate, but perhaps they use the sound of the
running water to mask pub neighbourhood yahooing, or high-revving traffic
hooligans, or other noise, while residents are trying to sleep. Does the
business have a caretaker, or rent overnight accommodation, or something?
Operating a fountain is preferable in the long run to taking a handful of
prescription sleeping tablets.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

Christopher Smith writes:
Although by doing so I risk instigating the ŒSpanish Inquisiton¹
sketch, there is also a third reason--that rainwater tastes a hell of a
lot better than most scheme water.

I won't disagree with you as far as taste goes. But the Sydney Water
Board does not recommend that city residents drink the rainwater they
collect. It recommends the water be used for the laundry, toilet, and/or
garden. I think pollution would be the concern. Many homes would be near
busy streets, some under plane flightpaths (kero fumes, and reports of
black spots on clothing set to dry outside), some downwind of industrial
fume stacks, etc. Discarding the first few minutes of water from a dirty
roof might not be sufficient precaution.

In my opinion, one additional reason would be that the city would be less
vulnerable to threats by any group to disrupt the city water system in
some way. As it stands at present, few residents would have even a day's
reserve of drinking water on hand in their home.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:50:59 GMT, John Savage
wrote:

I won't disagree with you as far as taste goes. But the Sydney Water
Board does not recommend that city residents drink the rainwater they
collect. It recommends the water be used for the laundry, toilet, and/or

Even outside the city there are dangers. A friend's water tank was
infested with thread worm, they presume from bird shit,


Regards
Bruce

In article ,
John Savage wrote:

Christopher Smith writes:
Although by doing so I risk instigating the ŒSpanish Inquisiton¹
sketch, there is also a third reason--that rainwater tastes a hell of a
lot better than most scheme water.

I won't disagree with you as far as taste goes. But the Sydney Water
Board does not recommend that city residents drink the rainwater they
collect. It recommends the water be used for the laundry, toilet, and/or
garden. I think pollution would be the concern.

Interestingly, Michael Mobbs (the sustainable house guy) lives in inner-city
Sydney and apparently has never had a problem with pollution in the rainwater.
They have thier water tested frequently.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

BCL writes:
Even outside the city there are dangers. A friend's water tank was
infested with thread worm, they presume from bird shit,

Umm, lovely. :-(

I once climbed up to clean out the gutters from a house that had a
sparrow problem. Not only had the one inch of rotting straw and manure
caused the gutter to rust through, but I found it to be crawling with
maggots! (Before this, I thought their tank water tasted real good.)

Another time, on my uncle's farm the water began to smell worse and
worse. They thought that something must have fallen down the well
over at the windmill. But one day as I was riding past the tank on
the hillside I edged the horse over to its side and looked in -- there
was a dead crow floating on the surface! So I got a stick and attempted
to fish it out but it fell to pieces and sank to the bottom. After
that we only used that tank's water for bathing! Such is life on the
land....
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

len gardener writes:
our house is on a slab so the loo is in its own raise room so to
speak, you need a minmum of app 1 meter clearance between top of bins
and the bottom of the joist i think it is. there are other systems

Thanks for the notes on your waterless loo, Len. I'm wondering how much
it differs from that of the conventional flushing one, as far as the
user is concerned? The more it differs, the more reluctant I think people
would be to install one.

Do you have a bucket of something alongside the loo, for each user to
dump a handful of (sawdust?) into the loo?

When Great-Aunt Bess, complete with hat pin and white gloves, forsakes
her Toorak mansion for a few days' visit to the countryside what sight
is going to assail her genteel vision (expecting a pool of comforting
blue lavender-scented water) when she cautiously lifts the lid of Len's
wierd commode thing??

Your mention of bins suggests that a couple of times each year a heavy
bin of slop has to be carefully hauled out by a couple of strong men and
stored somewhere out of the way for a number of months?

Is the compost a bit on the bugle when you spread it around the yard,
i.e., the neighbours call off their planned weekend birthday party. :-)
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

John Savage wrote:
len gardener writes:

Your mention of bins suggests that a couple of times each year a heavy
bin of slop has to be carefully hauled out by a couple of strong men and
stored somewhere out of the way for a number of months?

Is the compost a bit on the bugle when you spread it around the yard,
i.e., the neighbours call off their planned weekend birthday party. :-)

When I looked into this, I was under the impression that it created a
kind of humus. Not smelly. I'm not sure how it's achieved though, except
perhaps no water, other than urine which would get soaked up by
newspaper or some other type of papery (toilet paper, even) material.

...aprill

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 00:14:15 GMT, John Savage
wrote:

snipped

Thanks for the notes on your waterless loo, Len. I'm wondering how much
it differs from that of the conventional flushing one, as far as the
user is concerned? The more it differs, the more reluctant I think people
would be to install one.

my pleasure john,

well at first site the pedestal looks the same as any water hungry
loo, even the lid looks the same though ours is a timber more up class
lid than the common plastic types around. the big difference is
between the ears of those people that have had decades of social
engineering/conditioning as they changed from the thunder boxes of the
40's & 50's even into the 60's, to the magic of push button water
fall.

Do you have a bucket of something alongside the loo, for each user to
dump a handful of (sawdust?) into the loo?

we have a bucket of mushroom compost not needed at each sitting though
about once or twice a week is more than enough as we run a dry system
ie.,. we use a night wee bucket so to speak.

When Great-Aunt Bess, complete with hat pin and white gloves, forsakes
her Toorak mansion for a few days' visit to the countryside what sight
is going to assail her genteel vision (expecting a pool of comforting
blue lavender-scented water) when she cautiously lifts the lid of Len's
wierd commode thing??

well unless she has owl vision or has hung one on the night before and
is prone to praying to the compost god below then she may see a
glimpse just a glimpse of white toilet paper in the dark depths below,
oh! nope not a drop blue lavender water in sight.

Your mention of bins suggests that a couple of times each year a heavy
bin of slop has to be carefully hauled out by a couple of strong men and
stored somewhere out of the way for a number of months?

um a little on the weighty side yes mmm slop well ours is dry, and
before i put the out of use lid on the full bin a cover it with mushy
compost, but no smell unless you stir it up so to speak, we have the
basement area of our loo set up so we slide one bin aside then put the
empty in service bin in place ready to be filled, usually composting
takes around 6 to 7 months usually the same amount of time it takes to
fill a bin. doesn't ahve to be stored out of the way it's only a black
bin ressembling a 44 gallon drum and no flies hanging around it.

Is the compost a bit on the bugle when you spread it around the yard,
i.e., the neighbours call off their planned weekend birthday party. :-)

nope once fully composted it looks like humas and has no odour so the
neighbours can still have their backyard barbie. we usually create a
trench down the middle of a garden and spread it in there, you only a
good wheelbarrow load full. ilike to get the worms into it so try to
do that as we fill too, they do wonders.

there is an enzyme you can buy and spray in after each use, that helps
the composting but we get good sun on our drum so that keeps the heat
up.

anyhowhavagudweegend

len

--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.

In article ,
John Savage wrote:

I once climbed up to clean out the gutters from a house that had a
sparrow problem. Not only had the one inch of rotting straw and manure
caused the gutter to rust through, but I found it to be crawling with
maggots! (Before this, I thought their tank water tasted real good.)

Ah, that flavoursome maggot wee!!

giggling, thinking of what your expression must have been when you spotted
'em

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

len gardener writes:
well at first site the pedestal looks the same as any water hungry
loo, even the lid looks the same though ours is a timber more up class
lid than the common plastic types around. the big difference is
between the ears of those people that have had decades of social
engineering/conditioning as they changed from the thunder boxes of the
40's & 50's even into the 60's, to the magic of push button water
fall.

Perhaps install a cistern with a button anyway, but have it play a tape
recording of a healthy waterfall's "Wooooshhh" to reassure any uncertain
visitors who have come under the evil social engineers' spell!!

Do you have a bucket of something alongside the loo, for each user to
dump a handful of (sawdust?) into the loo?

we have a bucket of mushroom compost not needed at each sitting though
about once or twice a week is more than enough as we run a dry system

Mushroom compost would be an almost sterile medium. Do you add it for its
absorbancy or to introduce a few microorganisms? An equal weight of garden
soil would have a lot more microbes.

ie.,. we use a night wee bucket so to speak.

Ah! I'd not picked up on the implication when you'd earlier said you run
it as a dry system. That explains a lot ... not to mention your healthy
lemon trees! There are difficulties there for urban dwellers, though I
guess if things were planned right one could install a urinal or some
sort of water-conservative loo for that function. Otherwise, your plans
are going to be well and truly upset should you ever decide to have 20
relatives around for Christmas Day--you might need to be 'changing bins'
halfway through the afternoon.

When Great-Aunt Bess, complete with hat pin and white gloves, forsakes
her Toorak mansion for a few days' visit to the countryside what sight
is going to assail her genteel vision (expecting a pool of comforting
blue lavender-scented water) when she cautiously lifts the lid of Len's
wierd commode thing??

well unless she has owl vision or has hung one on the night before and
is prone to praying to the compost god below then she may see a
glimpse just a glimpse of white toilet paper in the dark depths below,
oh! nope not a drop blue lavender water in sight.

So, no handy S-bend to trap a mobile phone or wedding ring when someone
drops it in? Is 'rolling up your sleeve' going to allow someone desperate
enough to retrieve their dropped phone??

nope once fully composted it looks like humas and has no odour so the
neighbours can still have their backyard barbie. we usually create a
trench down the middle of a garden and spread it in there, you only a
good wheelbarrow load full. ilike to get the worms into it so try to
do that as we fill too, they do wonders.

You drop a few worms down the loo from time to time? And they survive,
even grow and multiply? Interesting. Handy if you're a keen fisherman!!
I suppose you could even throw in a paper bag full of the day's kitchen
peelings and food scraps?

there is an enzyme you can buy and spray in after each use, that helps
the composting but we get good sun on our drum so that keeps the heat
up.

Thanks for all that info, Len. I hope others have learnt from it, too.
It seems so absurd to me, when visiting rural friends, to be skimping
and saving every drop of water when bathing, doing laundry, brushing
teeth, etc., plus rationing laundry water all around the garden, only to
then have everyone throwing water by the bucketful down the loo!

Since so many homes have two loos these days, perhaps an upstairs
water-waster and a downstairs water-saver might be a reasonable
compromise. The septic could serve as a reserve (for when the nature-
loo is awaiting someone to change bins) and as a convenience for guests.
Did you see the septic system on ABC's New Inventors? It comprises 3
plastic bins filled by a thick liner. It all folds up to such a small
package that it is actually mailed out to purchasers! It's on the
market and fully does away with the big round concrete septic tank.

Again, thanks.
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)

snipped
visitors who have come under the evil social engineers' spell!!

yes john i had thought of that just to comfort those wastefull city
folk hell bent on hearing drinking water go to waster lol.

snipped
soil would have a lot more microbes.

mushroom compost is a good medium for worms we could use wood
shavings. sawdust can set hard and earth would make for more weight.
but yes earth would have lots of beneficial stuff in it.

snipped
halfway through the afternoon.

take 'em a bit longer than that to fill one but generally the blokes
get told hey you got the equipment go water a gum tree or something
ladies are allowed to use the loo as they normally would push button
and blue lavender water excepted of course.

snipped
oh! nope not a drop blue lavender water in sight.

snipped
enough to retrieve their dropped phone??

nup no S bends good hey goes straight down express lift stopping at no
floors on the way, if they want it back they have to go fetch huh
anyway's most mobile phones don't decompose although i have read of
one that returns to dirt and the cover grows into a sunflower or is
this april and i don't know it??? lol

snipped
I suppose you could even throw in a paper bag full of the day's kitchen
peelings and food scraps?

yep would be a good way of getting supplies of ready worms for the
ardent fishermen around, a good selling point to get his my poo dun
smell wife to agree to getting a unit hey?? lol

snipped
market and fully does away with the big round concrete septic tank.

Again, thanks.

exactly john people in rural parctise frugal and our city cousins
waste away hey water's comes cheap doesn't it why conserve it when
everytime they push the button or turn on the hose for the car or lawn
there it is more regular than some people are hey? shite might hit the
fan when nothing emits from the geisers though hey?? lol

yep hopefully it may get the odd mind working whether in toorak or
grebe hey chuckle, the social engineering has been a total success
hey?

len

--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.