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[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
i just got a juniper bonsai tree and it looks fairly young maybe 2-3
years. anyhow, i'm wondering how long can i expect this to live? lets say i were to care for it and repot, water, give good sunshine, feed and everything else expected of a good master... If you provide what the tree needs, give it proper care and first and foremost, learn its needs, you should have a tree for many many years. I have some three year old seedlings that I plan to give to my son someday, if he develops an interest in bonsai (they are the same age as he is). If he develops the interest, I am fairly sure, barring accident or lapse in care on my part, they should outlast me. If you are keeping it indoors, about a week. And while this is true, it is also about the most unhelpful, discouraging comment I have seen here in a long time. Sam Crowell Klamath Falls, OR __________________________________________________ _______________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
From: MainAt
hi i just got a juniper bonsai tree and it looks fairly young maybe 2-3 years. anyhow, i'm wondering how long can i expect this to live? Treat it right and it will still be going strong long afte you have left this earth. Colin ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
Colin Lewis wrote:
Treat it right and it will still be going strong long afte you have left this earth. Colin Colin, Welcome back to IBC. When you get a chance ... gives us Brits an idea of how it goes in the "land of opportunity" Regards Steve __________________________________________________ ________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
hi i just got a juniper bonsai tree and it looks fairly
young maybe 2-3 years. anyhow, i'm wondering how long can i expect this to live? lets say i were to care for it and repot, water, give good sunshine, feed and everything else expected of a good master... I assume from the message that you are inexperienced with bonsai. I also assume that what you have is a pre-formed, already-in-the-pot commercially produced bonsai. We call them Mallsai. If both (or either, actually) of these assumptions is correct, the answer -- unfortunately -- is "not long" unless you are lucky and a fast learner. You have the right attitude, through. It has a chance if you "care for it, repot, water and give good sunshine, feed and everything else . . ." Maybe I can help. 1. As Iris said, it should be outdoors 24 hours a day and 7 days a week for 52 weeks a year (unless you live where it gets REALLY, REALLY cold where it will required some winter protection. That does NOT mean to bring it inside the warm house. A cold frame, unheated garage or basement, etc. is necessary to allow it dormancy. If you have it inside now, and temps are still below freezing in your area, keep it inside, in a sunny location, and move it out as soon as freezing weather is over. 2. If it was a mall-bought (including Home Depot and roadside kiosks) juniper bonsai it probably has a soil surface that is covered with rocks the size of your thumb (or thereabouts). Chances are these rocks are glued on the surface of the soil. Get rid of them. Now. Replace the resulting void with a good-quality potting soil. 3. A few words about watering: Too much water is as bad as (maybe worse) than too little water, especially for a juniper. ONLY water when the soil feels dry an inch or so under the surface. How do you tell? Keep a stick jammed into the soil about half way between the trunk and the rim of the pot. Pull it out at the same time every day and feel the dirty end. If it is damp, do NOT water. If it feels dry, Water. If you got a sheet of instructions with your tree they undoubtedly said to water by plopping the pot in a sink-full of water and let the pot soak it up. This is not good for the soil -- especially the soil that most Mallsai come planted in. Use a watering can and water from the top -- like rain. 4. Feeding. Don't overdo. Any houseplant fertilizer will be fine. Monthly is all it will need. Don't start until March or April. 6. Rush to your nearest bookstore or garden center and purchase the Sunset book on Bonsai. 7. Find a local bonsai club and join. The old timers there can help easier than we can. If you write us again, please tell us where you live. It makes giving advice easier because chances are we have someone from your general area on the IBC. And, 8. If this tree dies, it probably isn't your fault. Fully half (maybe more) of all Malsai are DOA in the store, much less the purchaser's hands. It takes weeks for a juniper to look dead. Good luck, and welcome to the world of bonsai. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
From: Steve Jones
When you get a chance ... gives us Brits an idea of how it goes in the "land of opportunity" Well, apart from the fact that some nasty American fungus kiled my larch, and the summer was so darn hot that one of my pines has suffered, and the winter here is brutally cold and three times as long as in the UK.... Nah - these are teething problems. Truth is that I am far busier than i thought possible. I have abslutely no regrets whatsoever about making this move. The level of enthusiasm, the desire to learn, the warmth of the people are all at least as good as in Europe, if not better. The only downside is that American society as considerably more regimented and conformist that in Europe (heads down, duck the bullets!). For example, people here want to work by calendar dates rather than by sniffing the wind and following nature - and they seem to want to follow rigid formulae rather than be creative and break the mould. This isn't just bonsai, but it is more prevalent in bonsai, probably because of the way bonsai has been taught in the past. Interestingly, once my students discover that they are allowed to do something a little off the wall, they are delighted and nothing will stop them. The material in America (on the eastern side, at least) is not as good as in Europe. There are fewer suitable species, and those that are most suitable are conifers - jack pine, pitch pine, ponderosa pine (if you have the patience) and some junipers (although all American junipers have a nasty habit of producing too much juvenile foliage). Virtually all te deciduous trees have leaves twice the size of their European counterparts. Perhaps that explains the near obsession with Japanese and Chinese imported species. There are some exceptions: Ilex vomitoria, which grows further south is fantastic, really! Swamp cypress (also in the south) and some of the fruiting species are great. Generally, the easiest material to find is in front yards or in parking lots - yews and junipers mostly. They are constantly pruned to little balls or flat-topped bushes, so they have lots of inner growth. I have dug out a couple of real beauties! Then, of course, there's Florida - where I honestly learned to appreciate tropical species. Seeing them grown outside in a climate that suits them was a real education for me. In fact, there are a couple of species - noteably ficus nerifolia and bucida spinosa - that I really wish I could grow effectively here in the north. Soooo - there you have it :) Colin ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
The level of enthusiasm, the desire to learn, the warmth of the people are all at least as good as in Europe, if not better. The only downside is that American society as considerably more regimented and conformist that in Europe (heads down, duck the bullets!). For example, people here want to work by calendar dates rather than by sniffing the wind and following nature - and they seem to want to follow rigid formulae rather than be creative and break the mould. This isn't just bonsai, but it is more prevalent in bonsai, probably because of the way bonsai has been taught in the past. This, too, you can blame on the *&^%$# Puritans that you folks sent us back in the mid to late 1500s and into the 1600s (I'm sure you sent them over because you saw what narrow, bigoted B-----ds they were and wanted no part of them.) :-/ The Puritans are to blame for much that is wrong in our society today -- including "Compassionate Conservatism." Interestingly, once my students discover that they are allowed to do something a little off the wall, they are delighted and nothing will stop them. Yeah. Once you show us that everything Mama taught us is isn't gospel, we cut loose. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone." -- Uncle Dave Macon, old-time musician ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Lewis" The level of enthusiasm, the desire to learn, the warmth of the people are all at least as good as in Europe, if not better. The only downside is that American society as considerably more regimented and conformist that in Europe (heads down, duck the bullets!). For example, people here want to work by calendar dates rather than by sniffing the wind and following nature - and they seem to want to follow rigid formulae rather than be creative and break the mould. This isn't just bonsai, but it is more prevalent in bonsai, probably because of the way bonsai has been taught in the past. ------------ When one begins an endeavor (like bonsai), there should be one way, and only one way, shown for how to do most of the basics. Things should be taught in the manner that says, "this is how you do this and you do it this way every time." There should be no room for modification, variation, exceptions, etc... This way students get the basics down and when they've got the basics down and are skilled in applying them, the variations, the exceptions, the modifications will become apparent and the student can grow. This is when the exceptions and variations can be best explored. Here in the U.S., too many are immediately concerned with the exceptions to the rule, the variations on the basics, and these distracting irrelevancies prevent most from ever concentrating on the "right," basic way of doing things that they never get a grasp of the basics. Meanwhile, everyone has artistic license, everyone is an innovator, everyone tries to do everyting they can think of far too soon and the results are that those who want to teach have no great skill and all that they can teach is basics, basics, basics - and they do it rather poorly and hold it to be the dogma instead of foundation. This is so because they've never had the experience of building a firm foundation and discovering how and when it is advantageous to break with the norm, break from the "rule." When a teacher does have the right background and they rightly begin teaching the basics, most American students get bored and say, "All he wants to teach is the basic junk. I want the exciting stuff!" and they soon quit being a student and become an "artist" or most certainly an "innovator." I am not merely speaking of bonsai, but many of the foreign arts and endeavors. Those who do behave as students while they're in trainng as students do learn the foundation and then learn the rest of the stuff will certainly find both the preoccupation with "rules" to the exclusion of all elese, or the ridiculous and weak efforts at innovation, to be odd and disappointing. Kind regards, Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
From: "Andy Rutledge"
Colin Lewis wrote: The only downside is that American society as considerably more regimented and conformist that in Europe .... Andy repied: When one begins an endeavor (like bonsai), there should be one way, and only one way, shown for how to do most of the basics. Things should be taught in the manner that says, "this is how you do this and you do it this way every time." There should be no room for modification, variation, exceptions, etc... QED ;) Colin Lewis wrote: This isn't just bonsai, but it is more prevalent in bonsai, probably because of the way bonsai has been taught in the past. When a teacher does have the right background and they rightly begin teaching the basics, most American students get bored and say, "All he wants to teach is the basic junk. I want the exciting stuff!" and they soon quit being a student and become an "artist" or most certainly an "innovator." QED again ;) I am not merely speaking of bonsai, but many of the foreign arts and endeavors. Those who do behave as students while they're in trainng as students do learn the foundation, and then learn the rest of the stuff will certainly find both the preoccupation with "rules" to the exclusion of all else, or the ridiculous and weak efforts at innovation, to be odd and disappointing. Either one is preoccupied with "rules" or one attempts innovation - it's hard to see how one can do both. Art, Andy, is a creative endeavour by definition. Sure, one must learn techniques - and the better thechnique is taught, the better it will be learned. The better technique is learned, the better it an be applied. But without the freedom of thought, the desire to innovate, the determination to express one's own emotions and make one's own ceative statements, any endeavour will remain, at best, at the level of craft, and will never achieve the status of art. Viva lka revolición! Colin ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
Being a born and raised American who has traveled the world extensively I
can see the thinking on both sides of this conversation. America is a great place, full of innovators. But it also has become a country that has lost its patience. Instant messaging, fast foods, all those things among others have caused us to want/expect results in short order. Andy is right, too many folks get bored and give up when we have to sit through boring basic techniques. I was one of those who wanted instant results and I lost 3 years worth of time figuring it out! Having been in Europe and Asia I have seen people just relaxing and watching the time pass by. I know that has nothing to do with bonsai, but the experience was quite different from watching Americans pass their time. We seem to be on a faster track than others. I, myself, am finally learning that bonsai, above all, is an art that requires infinite patience. That seems to be one trait that the American lifestyle has eroded. In that aspect bonsai should/could be a good endeavor for all of us. How goes the old saying' 'patience is a virtue'? Just some off the wall ramblings. --I crucified my hate and held the world within my hands-- Neal Ross-Marysville CA ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Lewis" QED ;) QED again ;) -------------- :-) Colin thinks I'm making his point for him. -------------- Either one is preoccupied with "rules" or one attempts innovation - it's hard to see how one can do both. -------------- Very simply. One first learns "the rules." (I hate that term) and then one uses them as reference points from which to be creative, somewhat created, wildly creative or cubist. -------------- Art, Andy, is a creative endeavour by definition. -------------- Thank you, Colin. ;-) -------------- Sure, one must learn techniques - and the better thechnique is taught, the better it will be learned. The better technique is learned, the better it an be applied. But without the freedom of thought, the desire to innovate, the determination to express one's own emotions and make one's own ceative statements, any endeavour will remain, at best, at the level of craft, and will never achieve the status of art. Viva lka revolición! Colin ------------- One must first learn the craft, then one can create the art. What you're observing here in the States is the constant need to revisit the basics (the dogma, the rules, whatever) because few learn them well enough the first 2 or 3 or 6 times around. That's all. Kind regards, Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
Jim Lewis wrote:
snip This, too, you can blame on the *&^%$# Puritans that you folks sent us back in the mid to late 1500s and into the 1600s (I'm sure you sent them over because you saw what narrow, bigoted B-----ds they were and wanted no part of them.) :-/ The Puritans are to blame for much that is wrong in our society today -- including "Compassionate Conservatism." Hey--these are my ancestors you're dissing. Don't forget they also laid the foundations for modern democracy and higher education on this continent. Awful people. snip Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
Jim Lewis wrote: snip This, too, you can blame on the *&^%$# Puritans that you folks sent us back in the mid to late 1500s and into the 1600s (I'm sure you sent them over because you saw what narrow, bigoted B-----ds they were and wanted no part of them.) :-/ The Puritans are to blame for much that is wrong in our society today -- including "Compassionate Conservatism." Hey--these are my ancestors you're dissing. Don't forget they also laid the foundations for modern democracy and higher education on this continent. Awful people. Well, one can't pick one's ancestors. We just have to live with them (or their legacy). However, the American version of Democracy, at least, came from another -- much more liberal (in the 16th century Renaissance sense) -- school of thought much further south than Massachusetts Bay Colony -- where the First Amendment would _never_ have come up for discussion ;-). Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
Instead of saying rules why don't we say tools, or methods?
--I crucified my hate and held the world within my hands-- Neal Ross-Marysville CA ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
---- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Ross" Instead of saying rules why don't we say tools, or methods? Neal Ross-Marysville CA ------------ Why not "basics?" They're nothing more than basic conventions - training wheels for beginner artists and dogma for the artistically challenged. Kind regards, Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
From: Andy Rutledge
One must first learn the craft, then one can create the art. What you're observing here in the States is the constant need to revisit the basics (the dogma, the rules, whatever) because few learn them well enough the first 2 or 3 or 6 times around. That's all. That's true almost everywhere, Andy. The point I was trying to make is that here an inordinate umber of people WANT things formularised. They want to know the axact date to put trees away for winter or bring them out in spring; they want to knoe the precise proportions for soil to first branch to apex; they want to know how to pronounce bonsai... ;) During the last year I have spent a lot of my time trying to get people to understand that you need to let the plant you are dealing with "speak" to you. You need to allow things like gut reaction, emotion, visual pleasure etc. influence design decisions. You need to look at the state of the vegetation to know when it is time to hibernate a plant. You need to forget about "left branch, right branch. back branch" when dealing with collected trees that don't have them. Now, who the heck was it who got me into this mess in the first place? Some darn Brit I think? Colin ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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