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#1
11-03-2003, 03:08 PM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
Yesterday I started sifting soil components, Turface and sand. For an
experiment I bought three bags of all-purpose sand at Home Depot to see how it sifted out. Cost me $9. I had three bags of turface left over from last year. After sifting all three bags of sand I came out with a ratio of 1:4--3/4 of the sand sifted out as too fine. The Turface came out to about 4:1 -- only 1/5 sifted out. The Turface, at around $10 a bag, proved to be a much better deal. So much for trying to stretch the Turface by buying "cheap" sand. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#2
11-03-2003, 03:56 PM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
Yesterday I started sifting soil components, Turface and sand.
For an experiment I bought three bags of all-purpose sand at Home Depot to see how it sifted out. Cost me $9. I had three bags of turface left over from last year. After sifting all three bags of sand I came out with a ratio of 1:4--3/4 of the sand sifted out as too fine. The Turface came out to about 4:1 -- only 1/5 sifted out. The Turface, at around $10 a bag, proved to be a much better deal. So much for trying to stretch the Turface by buying "cheap" sand. Yes, but Turface and sand don't do the same thing in your bonsai soil. Turface granules hold water. Sand grains don't. (Both hold a little interstitially, probably about equally.) Depending on tree and climate, you may need both. In my wet climate, I should use more sand that Turface, but do not because I discovered that HD's all-purpose sand most definately isn't ALL purpose and I have no good sources for coarse enough sand. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#4
11-03-2003, 08:37 PM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
My neighbor built a slab for an outbuilding and offered me the leftover pile
of builder's sand he had had dumped in his driveway. I've gone thru probably 10 5-gallon buckets. Similar ratio of 1:4. Been using ALL that leftover fines to level the yard. To me the biggest issue is the amount of work, time and sore arms to get just a gallon of usable sand. John Austin, TX "Craig Cowing" wrote in message ... Yesterday I started sifting soil components, Turface and sand. For an experiment I bought three bags of all-purpose sand at Home Depot to see how it sifted out. Cost me $9. I had three bags of turface left over from last year. After sifting all three bags of sand I came out with a ratio of 1:4--3/4 of the sand sifted out as too fine. The Turface came out to about 4:1 -- only 1/5 sifted out. The Turface, at around $10 a bag, proved to be a much better deal. So much for trying to stretch the Turface by buying "cheap" sand. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#5
11-03-2003, 10:28 PM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
"John T. Jarrett" wrote:
My neighbor built a slab for an outbuilding and offered me the leftover pile of builder's sand he had had dumped in his driveway. I've gone thru probably 10 5-gallon buckets. Similar ratio of 1:4. Been using ALL that leftover fines to level the yard. To me the biggest issue is the amount of work, time and sore arms to get just a gallon of usable sand. John Austin, TX That's basically the issue. I'm really bumming because a product I've had really good luck with has changed. I can't think of the brand name, but it's a 2-part bedding for patios--larger (1") chunks of crushed stone, and a finer stone. The finer stone, once sifted, yielded about 50/50 usable stone. The pieces were about 1/8-1/4" and pointed. Nice medium gray color. Now the finer grade is just garbage in a bag of silt. :-( Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#6
11-03-2003, 11:21 PM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
How about the Oil Dry they sell at Tractor Supply real cheap?
-- John T. Jarrett http://logontexas.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Web Design - Program - Host - Maintain - Databases - E-Commerce $9.95 Nationwide Dial-Up ISP new customers welcome... --------------------------------------------------------------- "Craig Cowing" wrote in message ... "John T. Jarrett" wrote: My neighbor built a slab for an outbuilding and offered me the leftover pile of builder's sand he had had dumped in his driveway. I've gone thru probably 10 5-gallon buckets. Similar ratio of 1:4. Been using ALL that leftover fines to level the yard. To me the biggest issue is the amount of work, time and sore arms to get just a gallon of usable sand. John Austin, TX That's basically the issue. I'm really bumming because a product I've had really good luck with has changed. I can't think of the brand name, but it's a 2-part bedding for patios--larger (1") chunks of crushed stone, and a finer stone. The finer stone, once sifted, yielded about 50/50 usable stone. The pieces were about 1/8-1/4" and pointed. Nice medium gray color. Now the finer grade is just garbage in a bag of silt. :-( Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#7
12-03-2003, 12:22 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
John;
I think "Oil Dry" is nothing more than glorified kitty litter !! If you've ever emptied a litter box, I don't think these hard clay clumps would look good in your bonsai pots. As soon as moisture hits it, it turns into a solid clump of clay !! Mark Hill - still frozen in Harrisburg -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of John T. Jarrett Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 6:12 PM To: How about the Oil Dry they sell at Tractor Supply real cheap? -- John T. Jarrett http://logontexas.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Web Design - Program - Host - Maintain - Databases - E-Commerce $9.95 Nationwide Dial-Up ISP new customers welcome... --------------------------------------------------------------- "Craig Cowing" wrote in message ... "John T. Jarrett" wrote: My neighbor built a slab for an outbuilding and offered me the leftover pile of builder's sand he had had dumped in his driveway. I've gone thru probably 10 5-gallon buckets. Similar ratio of 1:4. Been using ALL that leftover fines to level the yard. To me the biggest issue is the amount of work, time and sore arms to get just a gallon of usable sand. John Austin, TX That's basically the issue. I'm really bumming because a product I've had really good luck with has changed. I can't think of the brand name, but it's a 2-part bedding for patios--larger (1") chunks of crushed stone, and a finer stone. The finer stone, once sifted, yielded about 50/50 usable stone. The pieces were about 1/8-1/4" and pointed. Nice medium gray color. Now the finer grade is just garbage in a bag of silt. :-( Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a ************************************************** ********************** **** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ********************** **** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#8
12-03-2003, 12:36 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
How about the Oil Dry they sell at Tractor Supply real cheap?
Oil Dri is made by the makers of Turface. I think its grain size is a bit smaller than Turface, and it may not have been fired at as high a temperature. I have never used it, but have been told that its consistency may not be as reliable as Turface and it may, at times, be mushy when constantly wetted. It is, however, better than kitty litter. There are other options: Terra-Green, Mule Mix, Schultz's Clay Soil Conditioner (smaller particles, small package size and more costly per pound), or even Haydite (which is fired shale). All have web sites (see the FAQ article I sent you yesterday ;-) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#9
12-03-2003, 12:36 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
Regarding sand/gravel replacements:
"John T. Jarrett" wrote: How about the Oil Dry they sell at Tractor Supply real cheap? John - Oil-Dri is not a sand-equivalent for bonsai soil, but rather a Turface-equivalent. Like Turface, it is baked clay granules, and is water (or oil!) absorbent. It does not "clump" like kitty litter which has a clumping agent (typically sodium bentonite) added to the clay granules. Be careful, tho, Oil Dry's typically not kilned at the high temperature that Turface and Terragreen are, and may break down more quickly in soil, especially when kept wet. Also, since it is made for floors not trees, it's possible that some batches could have contaminants that would be bad for plant growth. Definitely don't reuse what you sweep off your shop floor  Anita ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#10
12-03-2003, 01:00 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
Don't confuse the newer scoopable litter with older clay litter. Clay
litter, which IS similar to OilDry, does not clump into big lumps. It remains as discrete bits even when saturated. Harvey On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, EESiFlo (North America) wrote: John; I think "Oil Dry" is nothing more than glorified kitty litter !! If you've ever emptied a litter box, I don't think these hard clay clumps would look good in your bonsai pots. As soon as moisture hits it, it turns into a solid clump of clay !! Mark Hill - still frozen in Harrisburg -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of John T. Jarrett Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 6:12 PM To: How about the Oil Dry they sell at Tractor Supply real cheap? -- John T. Jarrett http://logontexas.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Web Design - Program - Host - Maintain - Databases - E-Commerce $9.95 Nationwide Dial-Up ISP new customers welcome... --------------------------------------------------------------- "Craig Cowing" wrote in message ... "John T. Jarrett" wrote: My neighbor built a slab for an outbuilding and offered me the leftover pile of builder's sand he had had dumped in his driveway. I've gone thru probably 10 5-gallon buckets. Similar ratio of 1:4. Been using ALL that leftover fines to level the yard. To me the biggest issue is the amount of work, time and sore arms to get just a gallon of usable sand. John Austin, TX That's basically the issue. I'm really bumming because a product I've had really good luck with has changed. I can't think of the brand name, but it's a 2-part bedding for patios--larger (1") chunks of crushed stone, and a finer stone. The finer stone, once sifted, yielded about 50/50 usable stone. The pieces were about 1/8-1/4" and pointed. Nice medium gray color. Now the finer grade is just garbage in a bag of silt. :-( Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a ************************************************** ********************** **** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ********************** **** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harvey Fishman | | A little heresy is good for the soul. 718-258-7276 | ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#11
12-03-2003, 02:48 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
Does anyone know where I can purchase these various bonsai soil
components in the New York metro area? New Jersey, New York, Eastern PA, CT. Thanks, John-NJ On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:07:06 -0500, Jim Lewis wrote: Oil Dri is made by the makers of Turface. I think its grain size is a bit smaller than Turface, and it may not have been fired at as high a temperature. I have never used it, but have been told that its consistency may not be as reliable as Turface and it may, at times, be mushy when constantly wetted. It is, however, better than kitty litter. There are other options: Terra-Green, Mule Mix, Schultz's Clay Soil Conditioner (smaller particles, small package size and more costly per pound), or even Haydite (which is fired shale). All have web sites (see the FAQ article I sent you yesterday ;-) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#12
12-03-2003, 03:24 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
Does anyone know where I can purchase these various bonsai soil
components in the New York metro area? New Jersey, New York, Eastern PA, CT. Thanks, John-NJ On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:07:06 -0500, Jim Lewis wrote: Oil Dri is made by the makers of Turface. I think its grain size is a bit smaller than Turface, and it may not have been fired at as high a temperature. I have never used it, but have been told that its consistency may not be as reliable as Turface and it may, at times, be mushy when constantly wetted. It is, however, better than kitty litter. There are other options: Terra-Green, Mule Mix, Schultz's Clay Soil Conditioner (smaller particles, small package size and more costly per pound), or even Haydite (which is fired shale). All have web sites (see the FAQ article I sent you yesterday ;-) If you do a web search on the name of each of the soil components (above), you will reach their main web pages. There may be a list of suppliers there, or you can click on the "contact us" button (or equivalent) and ask someone in the company who the nearest dealers might be. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#13
12-03-2003, 04:02 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
I have been using the Schultzes Clay Soil Conditioner. I sent an e mail to
the makers of Turface and they replied that it is basically the same and it is carried by most Wal Marts. I have also seen it at Orchard Supply and Hardware in 40 lb bags for about $17-$20. You can contact Turface at this webpage and see if they can tell you who stocks it in your area http://www.turface.com/ Good luck --I crucified my hate and held the world within my hands-- Neal Ross-Marysville CA ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#14
12-03-2003, 05:10 AM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
At 07:07 PM 3/11/03 -0500, Jim Lewis wrote:
How about the Oil Dry they sell at Tractor Supply real cheap? Oil Dri is made by the makers of Turface. I think its grain size is a bit smaller than Turface, and it may not have been fired at as high a temperature. I have never used it, but have been told that its consistency may not be as reliable as Turface and it may, at times, be mushy when constantly wetted. It is, however, better than kitty litter. Jim, et al There was an interesting article in the San Francisco Chronicle last week on Oil Dri Inc. It seems they mine their product near Reno NV, not far from Lake Tahoe. Their mining expansion was turned down by the local planning dept and they sued all the way to Federal Appeals Court. Memos showed they solicited the support of the Interior Dept since part of the venture was on Federal Lands. The whole thing raised a big stink and an embarrassment on the part of the Dept. which did end up filing a friend of the court brief. The long and short of it is that Oil Dri products apparently are mined similar to Akadama, not fired like other products, unless I am missing something here. Brent in Northern California Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14 http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#15
12-03-2003, 02:32 PM
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[IBC] sifting soil components
Neal Ross wrote:
I have been using the Schultzes Clay Soil Conditioner. I sent an e mail to the makers of Turface and they replied that it is basically the same and it is carried by most Wal Marts. I have also seen it at Orchard Supply and Hardware in 40 lb bags for about $17-$20. You can contact Turface at this webpage and see if they can tell you who stocks it in your area http://www.turface.com/ Good luck --I crucified my hate and held the world within my hands-- Neal Ross-Marysville CA This is what I did when I was in Maine, and it turned out that the only distributor for Turface in the state was about 2 miles from my house. I got it for half of the retail price, at $10.75/bag. Too bad I discovered this just as I was getting ready to move. Be sure to find out who is an official distributor, so they will sell it at the wholesale price. Craig Cowing NY Zopne 5b/6a ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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