Greetings all,

The soil in my training pots seem to repel water instead of absorb it. I'm
using commercial grade 'standard' potting mix with added coarse river sand
(about 10-15%). Each time I water, the water either wells around the top
without being absorbed by the soil, or it just seems to run down the insides
of the pot. When the water _does_ seem to be absorbed, it only penertrates
about 5mm down, leaving the rest dry. Additionally, a dry 'crust' of about
5-10mm tends to form on some of the newly repotted plants.
I've tried soaking the pots in buckets of water for 30mins or so, which
_seems_ to help.
I was wondering if perhaps this is a water quality issue (high calcium
content?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Martin

Second month of spring here in South Eastern Australia.
Average temps - 20 deg C - 68 deg F
Pots in full sun.

Martin

This happens when the organic content of the soil is allowed to get
extremely dry. Fir bark is notorious for this hydrophobic property. Like
you, I have tried any number of things to get it wet, but the best thing
to do is to take the plant out of the pot (if you have already potted
something in it) and tumble the soil and water together so that every
particle gets a 'coat' of water. I do this in a cement mixer that I use
as a soil mixer. It is fast and efficient for this, but if you don't
have one, you can tumble it in a garbage can. Inspect it to make sure
the particles are coated with water, then seal it up to allow the water
to penetrate each particle. This may take several hours to a day or two.
After that, it should take up water normally. When storing soil, make
sure that it is slightly damp, not wet, and seal it to keep it from
drying out.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com

Martin wrote:
Greetings all,

The soil in my training pots seem to repel water instead of absorb it. I'm
using commercial grade 'standard' potting mix with added coarse river sand
(about 10-15%). Each time I water, the water either wells around the top
without being absorbed by the soil, or it just seems to run down the insides
of the pot. When the water _does_ seem to be absorbed, it only penertrates
about 5mm down, leaving the rest dry. Additionally, a dry 'crust' of about
5-10mm tends to form on some of the newly repotted plants.
I've tried soaking the pots in buckets of water for 30mins or so, which
_seems_ to help.
I was wondering if perhaps this is a water quality issue (high calcium
content?)

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In article , "Martin" wrote:

Greetings all,

The soil in my training pots seem to repel water instead of absorb it. I'm
using commercial grade 'standard' potting mix with added coarse river sand
(about 10-15%). Each time I water, the water either wells around the top
without being absorbed by the soil, or it just seems to run down the insides
of the pot. When the water _does_ seem to be absorbed, it only penertrates
about 5mm down, leaving the rest dry. Additionally, a dry 'crust' of about
5-10mm tends to form on some of the newly repotted plants.
I've tried soaking the pots in buckets of water for 30mins or so, which
_seems_ to help.

I've seen that with my non-bonsai houseplants. It's a symptom of
under-watering. When potting mix gets too dry, it tends to repel water.
It also happens to a lesser extent with potting mix fresh from the bag.

My solution is to use a spray bottle to moisten the whole surface just a
little. Wait half a minute for the spray droplets to be absorbed, and then
water normally. After half an hour, check the soil and water again if it
needs it.

Thanks guys for your replies, I've opted for the 'soak and wait 2 hrs
method' courtesy of an old tub in the backyard, seems to have done the
trick. I will also be revising my watering regime regarding my training
pots, I guess i was too worried about root rot and didnt water them
frequently enough...

'dammed if u do, dammed if u dont' - bart simpson

Martin

"Wayne C. Morris" wrote in message
...
In article , "Martin" wrote:

Greetings all,

The soil in my training pots seem to repel water instead of absorb it.
I'm
using commercial grade 'standard' potting mix with added coarse river
sand
(about 10-15%). Each time I water, the water either wells around the top
without being absorbed by the soil, or it just seems to run down the
insides
of the pot. When the water _does_ seem to be absorbed, it only
penertrates
about 5mm down, leaving the rest dry. Additionally, a dry 'crust' of
about
5-10mm tends to form on some of the newly repotted plants.
I've tried soaking the pots in buckets of water for 30mins or so, which
_seems_ to help.

I've seen that with my non-bonsai houseplants. It's a symptom of
under-watering. When potting mix gets too dry, it tends to repel water.
It also happens to a lesser extent with potting mix fresh from the bag.

My solution is to use a spray bottle to moisten the whole surface just a
little. Wait half a minute for the spray droplets to be absorbed, and
then
water normally. After half an hour, check the soil and water again if it
needs it.

Martin,

Of course your main problem is that you are using "standard commercial
potting mix". You are right to worry about root rot when using a mix such
as the one you are using, it is much too fine and will retain too much
water, and as you noticed, if you let it dry out a bit, it then repels
water.

You should change over to a free draining mix at the earliest opportunity.
You can use your coarse river sand along with lava rock or turface or the
like, and if you want some organic matter in the mix, use screened bark
mulch. All the soil particles should be larger than 1/8" to provide good
drainage, and a mix such as that will not repel water when dry.

Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane, WA. Zone 5-ish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin"

Thanks guys for your replies, I've opted for the 'soak and wait 2 hrs
method' courtesy of an old tub in the backyard, seems to have done the
trick. I will also be revising my watering regime regarding my training
pots, I guess i was too worried about root rot and didnt water them
frequently enough...

The soil in my training pots seem to repel water instead of absorb it.
I'm
using commercial grade 'standard' potting mix with added coarse river
sand
(about 10-15%). Each time I water, the water either wells around the
top
without being absorbed by the soil, or it just seems to run down the
insides

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Have you try using a liitle dish washing detergent to change the surface
tension of the water?

Jason

"Martin" wrote in message ...
Greetings all,

The soil in my training pots seem to repel water instead of absorb it. I'm
using commercial grade 'standard' potting mix with added coarse river sand
(about 10-15%). Each time I water, the water either wells around the top
without being absorbed by the soil, or it just seems to run down the
insides
of the pot. When the water _does_ seem to be absorbed, it only penertrates
about 5mm down, leaving the rest dry. Additionally, a dry 'crust' of about
5-10mm tends to form on some of the newly repotted plants.
I've tried soaking the pots in buckets of water for 30mins or so, which
_seems_ to help.
I was wondering if perhaps this is a water quality issue (high calcium
content?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Martin

Second month of spring here in South Eastern Australia.
Average temps - 20 deg C - 68 deg F
Pots in full sun.

"roger roger!"
Thanks for the info.
I've built my screen, screened 60 litres of bark and am just now getting
psyched up to start repotting my 25 training pots
I'm assuming I should make an even coarser mix for my conifers?

Perhaps a new thread is in order here......"Soil Mixes for Training Pots"

Martin

"Roger Snipes" wrote in message
news:00a001c5cae7$4ed47610$0200a8c0@dell...
Martin,

Of course your main problem is that you are using "standard commercial
potting mix". You are right to worry about root rot when using a mix such
as the one you are using, it is much too fine and will retain too much
water, and as you noticed, if you let it dry out a bit, it then repels
water.

You should change over to a free draining mix at the earliest opportunity.
You can use your coarse river sand along with lava rock or turface or the
like, and if you want some organic matter in the mix, use screened bark
mulch. All the soil particles should be larger than 1/8" to provide good
drainage, and a mix such as that will not repel water when dry.

Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane, WA. Zone 5-ish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin"

Thanks guys for your replies, I've opted for the 'soak and wait 2 hrs
method' courtesy of an old tub in the backyard, seems to have done the
trick. I will also be revising my watering regime regarding my training
pots, I guess i was too worried about root rot and didnt water them
frequently enough...

The soil in my training pots seem to repel water instead of absorb
it.
I'm
using commercial grade 'standard' potting mix with added coarse river
sand
(about 10-15%). Each time I water, the water either wells around the
top
without being absorbed by the soil, or it just seems to run down the
insides


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Martin,

A coarser mix for conifers, especially pines, isn't a bad idea. I and
others in my area usually use a somewhat coarser mix for our pines, although
it isn't 100% necessary.

For pines I don't use much, if any, bark in the mix - 25% or less, with the
rest just being lava rock or other grit.

Regards,
Roger Snipes
Spokane, WA. Zone 5-ish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin"
I've built my screen, screened 60 litres of bark and am just now getting
psyched up to start repotting my 25 training pots
I'm assuming I should make an even coarser mix for my conifers?

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Romano++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

It is fast and able for this, but if you don't have one, you can tumble it in a debris can. Inspect it to accomplish sure the particles are coated with water, again allowance it up to acquiesce the water to access anniversary particle. This may yield several hours to a day or two. After that, it should yield up baptize normally.