Hi everyone i recently ordered a small mame pot from
tokoname. Which has 4 sides with japanese symbols on
each side. I contacted the person i bought it from
for a translation this is what he found. But he
still thinks something has been lost in the
translation. Have any of you ever heard this poem?
Or do any of you know which words are missing?


They are 4 Haikus, Haikus are Japanese poems with 3
lines consisting of 5,7,5 syllables.

The first red leaves in front of the mountain makes
scenery.

Welcome rain drop to the flower of Aronia.

Needles of pine tree sting the sky to change the
color.

I enter to wicket door turn aside from wet willow by
rain.

I can take some pics this weekend if any of you think
you could translate it. Its apparently in a form of
japanese no longer spoken.


Thanks
Ben


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Thanks but it is written in ancient japanese so most
japanese can't read it.

Ben


--- Neal Ross wrote:
Ben,

Never heard that poem, but there is someplace that
might help you. I bought
some calligraphy from a woman named Eri Takase. She
is a Japanese woman who
doesn't speak any English and uses a translator to
due business. She may be
able to help. You can always go to her webpage and e
mail her from there if
you want to give it a try.

Check it out at www.takase.com

--I crucified my hate and
held the world within my hands--
Neal Ross-Marysville CA




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Hi Ben.

You write of haiku (poems) on a Tokonome pot:
The first red leaves in front of the mountain makes
scenery.

Welcome rain drop to the flower of Aronia.

Needles of pine tree sting the sky to change the
color.

I enter to wicket door turn aside from wet willow by
rain.

... SNIP Have any of you ever heard this poem?
Or do any of you know which words are missing?

Why would you think words are missing? It appears someone has added
generously to the original four poems to suggest a reasonable "meaning" for
each.

I recently posted a scroll on the Suiseki Mail List that "reads"
left-to-right, top-to-bottom:
1.KEI --- incline
2.NEN --- nature
3.KAN --- invite
4.CHA --- tea
5.HEI --- jar (for green tea)

The Japanese fellow who sold it offered that it might be intended to say,
"Drink Japanese green tea, if you want to become natural." After exploring
the characters creating the message in the NTC character dictionary (though
I never found the last character & required help for it), I choose to read
it, "Inviting natural feeling-- a tea jar."

The Aronia (j. _Kaido_, a.k.a. 'chokeberry') is a seasonal allusion to
spring. The wet willow is a seasonal allusion to summer. I'd think the
red leaves at the foot of the mountain suggest autumn. "Needles of the pine
tree sting the sky to change the color...," hmmm?

You might use the pot to display a seasonal planting of your choice--
repotting at each season. You might turn the pot to suggest the season for
a cross-seasonal planting. More likely, choose one plant that has a
prefered season and choose the haiku that suppoprts the image.
Alternatively, choose the script that is most appealing (Japanese
enthusiasts of wabi-style tea might choose the most awkward script whereas a
modern suiseki enthusiasts might choose technically well-balanced script)
and the planting of your choice for creating a feeling of nature that is
meaningful to you.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond, VA USA

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Thanks Chris i didn't suggest myself that it was
incomplete the translator thought it might be
incomplete. I like your idea of rewording it to make
more sense.

Thanks
ben

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi Ben.

Hope you are happy with your pot. It is somewhat rare for vendors of
Japanese calligraphy art to translate the text into English. They often
say, "The style of calligraphy is old (or even claim it is ancient)."
There have been changes in convention which change the expectation for
learning and reading characters. Sometimes, I can readily see why the
vendor might withold that their lovely scroll weight carries kanji
characters noting, "Buy your ink at The Red Moth Emporium."

It is not rare (exactly as your vendor suggests) for a few words to
reference more. The famous Blue Cliff Record includes the WIDELY noted
response of a Chinese monk that answered his own question regarding what
comes before and after the 15th day of the month. When his clerical
students had no response, he stated (as though answering), "Every day is a
good day." The whole incident and the spiritual message that all days are
part of an absolute reality which is unchanging is often shortened to the
two characters for "good" and "day."

On the Takagi Bonsai Museum website of "previous exhibitions" (those held in
the last month) now posted http://www.bonsaimuseum.org/e/z030103.html. Two
of the three calligraphy scrolls mounted in alcove display are "good day"
scrolls-- one of 5-character length and another of 2-character length.
"Everyday," btw, is expressed by the character for "day (or 'sun')"
repeated, so it is easily spotted.

Best wishes,
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Griffin"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:35 PM
Subject: [IBC] Translation help


Thanks Chris i didn't suggest myself that it was
incomplete the translator thought it might be
incomplete. I like your idea of rewording it to make
more sense.

Thanks
ben

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++