I have several trees that are small and need some growing before going into
a bonsai pot. I have read that the ground would be the best place to plant
them but there's some that I can't leave out in the garden over the winter.
Can I put those in oversized wooden boxes (screen bottom) filled with garden
soil and set them in the garden? Then I can lift them out and store them
over the winter. Will this have the same effect on growth? Or do I plant
them in the ground in Spring and dig them up in Fall?

Thanks, John-NJ





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I have several trees that are small and need some growing
before going into
a bonsai pot. I have read that the ground would be the best
place to plant
them but there's some that I can't leave out in the garden over
the winter.
Can I put those in oversized wooden boxes (screen bottom)
filled with garden
soil and set them in the garden? Then I can lift them out and
store them
over the winter. Will this have the same effect on growth? Or
do I plant
them in the ground in Spring and dig them up in Fall?


The boxes will be fine. A bit slower, but fine.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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John NJ wrote:
... some that I can't leave out in the garden over the winter.
Can I put those in oversized wooden boxes (screen bottom) filled with garden
soil and set them in the garden?

Hi John - sure you can. Growth won't be quite as rapid as planted
right into the ground, though, from losing the roots each fall that
you cut off to lift it. I'm concerned that rapid root growth through
the "screen bottom" might be enough to destroy the screen. As an
alternative, consider Brent's* "escape" method, where you leave them
in generously sized nursery pots, and just bury the bottom few inches.
Let the roots escape through the drainage holes over the season.

In either case, be aware that you'll need to water into the top of
your container regularly to keep the roots inside from dying of drought.

You might also want to fill your containers with a aerated container
mix, too, not garden soil, since you'll be keeping them in the
containers over the winter.

Anita
Northern Harford County, Maryland

*Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks, http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/growfast.htm

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I tend to use hardware cloth (either 3 or 6 mm openings and goes by
several other names) which has heavier wires that window screening for
the box bottoms. The roots that grow through the mesh do not cause much
damage, particularly when cut off once a year to move the box. In
addition, I suggest using a coarser soil than garden soil since this
permits better aeration and fluid (read fertilizer) flow and therefore
faster growth.

Marty

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Marty:

Can I find hardware cloth at Home Depot? You said it goes by other names.
What is it used for? That may help the clerks find it for me.

Thanks, John

From: Marty & Patty Weiser
Reply-To: Marty & Patty Weiser
To:
Subject: [IBC] Growing Box = Ground
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:21:39 -0800

I tend to use hardware cloth (either 3 or 6 mm openings and goes by
several other names) which has heavier wires that window screening for
the box bottoms. The roots that grow through the mesh do not cause much
damage, particularly when cut off once a year to move the box. In
addition, I suggest using a coarser soil than garden soil since this
permits better aeration and fluid (read fertilizer) flow and therefore
faster growth.

Marty

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Marty:

Can I find hardware cloth at Home Depot? You said it goes by
other names.
What is it used for? That may help the clerks find it for me.

Thanks, John

The folks at HD or Lowes will know it by the name "hardware
cloth." It is used for coops, coarse screening, fences for small
compounds, to reinforce concrete, etc. It comes in largish rolls
but HD will sell or cut smaller pieces for you. Some day I'd
like to learn the derivation of "cloth" since it so definitely is
NOT cloth.

I use it to screen my feed room in the barn. Otherwise the
squirrels and other Rodentia chew through regular screening to
get at the horses' grain.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Jim Lewis wrote:

Some day I'd
like to learn the derivation of "cloth" since it so definitely is
NOT cloth.

Sure it is. It is woven, though the warp and the woof are metallic rather
than the more usual fiber of some sort.

Harvey

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvey Fishman |
| A little heresy is good for the soul.
718-258-7276 |

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Jim:

I went to Home Depot during lunch and asked three different people for
hardware cloth. Nobody knew what it was. When I described it they said,
"OH! You mean wire mesh. Go to building materials."

I found mesh lathe which felt sharp to the touch and had diamond shaped
holes. I also found concrete reinforcing mesh with huge holes. There was
no chicken wire or any fencing material with small holes. They did have
stuff called bird barrier and deer barrier but that was plastic. Of course
they had regular aluminum window screening.

Any other idea where I can get the material?

Thanks, John






From: Jim Lewis

The folks at HD or Lowes will know it by the name "hardware
cloth." It is used for coops, coarse screening, fences for small
compounds, to reinforce concrete, etc. It comes in largish rolls
but HD will sell or cut smaller pieces for you. Some day I'd
like to learn the derivation of "cloth" since it so definitely is
NOT cloth.

I use it to screen my feed room in the barn. Otherwise the
squirrels and other Rodentia chew through regular screening to
get at the horses' grain.

__________________________________________________ _______________

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Hi, John...

Try going to ANY place that ISN'T a Home Depot (or one of its equivalents)
such as a local, native-to-the-area-owned-by hardware store and repeat your
request. Alternatively you might try any place catering to farmers or
agriculture such as Blue Seal or Agway...

As our nation "homogenizes" and "disney-fies" with the proliferation of
nation-wide mega-stores spreading single products, techniques, approaches
and solutions, [AND destroys the specific, the regional and the local
"character" which for so long made this vast and diversified country such a
special place] it gets harder and harder to easily find what you "really"
want or need.

"Hardware cloth" is a very specific product with any number of uses -- and
it has been for more than a century. If you couldn't readily find it, blame
neither yourself nor the people who turned you towards it -- rather the
"fault" lies with the organizational set-up and philosophies of those folks
with their one-size-fits-all marketing strategies & their lack of "hands-on"
experience with the "real" world who are buying for the big chains...

:^)

Good luck with your search!

Donald

----- Original Message -----
From: "John NJ"
To:
Sent: Wednesday March 26 2003 1:35 PM
Subject: [IBC] Growing Box = Ground


: Jim:
:
: I went to Home Depot during lunch and asked three different people for
: hardware cloth. Nobody knew what it was. When I described it they said,
: "OH! You mean wire mesh. Go to building materials."
:
: I found mesh lathe which felt sharp to the touch and had diamond shaped
: holes. I also found concrete reinforcing mesh with huge holes. There was
: no chicken wire or any fencing material with small holes. They did have
: stuff called bird barrier and deer barrier but that was plastic. Of
course
: they had regular aluminum window screening.
:
: Any other idea where I can get the material?
:
: Thanks, John
:
:
:
:
:
:
: From: Jim Lewis
:
: The folks at HD or Lowes will know it by the name "hardware
: cloth." It is used for coops, coarse screening, fences for small
: compounds, to reinforce concrete, etc. It comes in largish rolls
: but HD will sell or cut smaller pieces for you. Some day I'd
: like to learn the derivation of "cloth" since it so definitely is
: NOT cloth.
:
: I use it to screen my feed room in the barn. Otherwise the
: squirrels and other Rodentia chew through regular screening to
: get at the horses' grain.
:
: __________________________________________________ _______________
:
:
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****
: ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
:
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****
: -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
: +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
:

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John:
If there are any "old fashioned hardware stores where you live, try
them! Frankly, I am sure that you could make due with plastic bird or
deer Barrier. You just don't want the Bonsai soil to fall through. You
can staple them on the side of the wooden boxes.

Carl L. Rosner

John NJ wrote:

Jim:

I went to Home Depot during lunch and asked three different people for
hardware cloth. Nobody knew what it was. When I described it they said,
"OH! You mean wire mesh. Go to building materials."

I found mesh lathe which felt sharp to the touch and had diamond shaped
holes. I also found concrete reinforcing mesh with huge holes. There
was
no chicken wire or any fencing material with small holes. They did have
stuff called bird barrier and deer barrier but that was plastic. Of
course
they had regular aluminum window screening.

Any other idea where I can get the material?

Thanks, John


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Donald Henry Shaw wrote:

Hi, John...

snip

"Hardware cloth" is a very specific product with any number of uses -- and
it has been for more than a century. If you couldn't readily find it, blame
neither yourself nor the people who turned you towards it -- rather the
"fault" lies with the organizational set-up and philosophies of those folks
with their one-size-fits-all marketing strategies & their lack of "hands-on"
experience with the "real" world who are buying for the big chains...

:^)

Good luck with your search!

Donald

There are certainly limitations to big box stores. I was in one in Maine in the
early fall a couple of years ago. It was a rather chilly day, but the air
conditioning was on. The customer in front of me commented to the cashier that it
seemed rather odd to have the AC on in such weather. She replied that the heat and
AC was controlled in Atlanta. It was obviously warmer in Atlanta that day.

Craig Cowing
NY
zone 5b/6a

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I agree with Roger that the best place to buy Hardware cloth is at your
local hardware store rather than a big box store. However, I like the 6
mm (4 wires per inch) rather than the 3 mm (8 wires per inch) for grow
box bottoms since I use a coarser soil mix. We debate this annually at
the IEBS club meetings.

If you cannot find it locally, McMaster-Carr www.mcmaster.com carries
hardware cloth along with many other types of wire cloth. It is in the
middle of page 335 of the on-line catalog as "Economy Galvanized Steel
Welded Wire Cloth" (a search of the site for hardware cloth is not
productive). The price is competitive with the local hardware store
before shipping (shipping probably makes it more expensive). I ended up
buying some 3 wires per inch for soil sieves this year after a
multi-year search and the local hardware store not being able to find it
for me.

Marty

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Donald,
I couldn't have said it better myself. I try to avoid the big chain DIY stores whenever possible. I much prefer my local hardware store. They may "seem" smaller, but in my experience they usually have whatever I need at the time. I can't always say the sam
e for the big DIY stores.
Jim
S.E. Michigan, Zone 5b


Donald Henry Shaw 3/26/03 2:13:18 PM
Hi, John...

Try going to ANY place that ISN'T a Home Depot (or one of its equivalents)
such as a local, native-to-the-area-owned-by hardware store and repeat your
request. Alternatively you might try any place catering to farmers or
agriculture such as Blue Seal or Agway...

As our nation "homogenizes" and "disney-fies" with the proliferation of
nation-wide mega-stores spreading single products, techniques, approaches
and solutions, [AND destroys the specific, the regional and the local
"character" which for so long made this vast and diversified country such a
special place] it gets harder and harder to easily find what you "really"
want or need.

"Hardware cloth" is a very specific product with any number of uses -- and
it has been for more than a century. If you couldn't readily find it, blame
neither yourself nor the people who turned you towards it -- rather the
"fault" lies with the organizational set-up and philosophies of those folks
with their one-size-fits-all marketing strategies & their lack of "hands-on"
experience with the "real" world who are buying for the big chains...

:^)

Good luck with your search!

Donald

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