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Marty & Patty Weiser 12-02-2003 03:55 AM

[IBC] US vs. European bonsai stundents - was [IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
 
When I was in Engineering Grad School, a visiting Scientist from Europe
described his experiences with Grad students as:
- European - very well educated and dedicated, but they won't work much
overtime or during August
- Asian - very hard workers that will work well into the night with a
solid understanding of the fundamentals
- American - lazy and not terribly well educated, but they will go our
surfing or hiking and come back with a solution that skips 6 to 12
months worth of work.
I can see this from the people I have worked with in Grad School, as a
Faculty member, and now in industry. I have also seen many exceptions
to these generalizations.

But I think they say something about the educational systems in the
different areas:
- Europe - students test into various tracks based upon the skills and
traits they show at moderate to early age. Advanced education is for
those that are strong in the field or well off.
- Asia - education is very competitive and seen as very important by
parents (and often costs a great deal)
- America - education is seen as a basic right and it is the
responsibility of the teacher to insure that the student learns - even
if the student is not paying attention or being disruptive.
The above are once again generalizations, but may give some insight into
the current discussion, particularly with regard bonsai students in the
US vs. Europe.

I know that my experiences above do not describe the multitude of
differences in learning, but I feel they add to the discussion. We all
need to learn from each other's learning and teaching styles so that we
can tailor them to the situation.

As a side note I once took consecutive workshops with a US bonsai master
and his Japanese sensei. I felt that the US master's approach was far
closer to what I envisioned as the Japanese approach (do this to this
branch) than the sensei's (try this). I guess we are all different and
our perceptions are constantly being reshaped.

Marty


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:14 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?

Think maybe this is due in part to the fact that our educational system
here
in the U.S. has, for the most part, devolved to the point where
education is
about regurgitation of "facts" as opposed to the application of
"principles?"

Jeff Isom
Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39

I'd venture that this is because we Americans feel the illogical need to
understand what we're being taught - from an intellectual point of view.
We
have to feel good about what we're digesting and "know" that it's
worthwhile
(forget the fact that, since we lack the fundamental understanding in
the
first place, that all of this is impossible). If we don't understand
the
process, we fear and dislike it. If the teacher demands that we forget
all
of that junk and just absorb the instruction and put it into practice
without question, we think that we're being duped or that we're being
"disrespected."

None of this has anything to do with learning, of course. But we like
to
delude ourselves that it does. See, "we" know what's right and the
teacher
does not. It's quite simple. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

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Andy Rutledge 12-02-2003 04:25 AM

[IBC] US vs. European bonsai stundents - was [IBC] Juniper Bonsai life expectancy?
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty & Patty Weiser"
snip
As a side note I once took consecutive workshops with a US bonsai master
and his Japanese sensei. I felt that the US master's approach was far
closer to what I envisioned as the Japanese approach (do this to this
branch) than the sensei's (try this). I guess we are all different and
our perceptions are constantly being reshaped.
Marty

--------------

Thanks for your input, Marty. I appreciate your experience-based
observations. As for the above, workshops are not where one goes to teach
as a teacher or learn as a student. The instruction given and the knowledge
gained in workshops is unlike what one gets when one becomes a student under
a teacher - in an ongoing, regular, lengthy basis. Try learning French by
attending French workshops twice a year. It is not going to be anything
like going to school to study French.

True, few people have the opportunity to study like this in bonsai, but
there should be no confusion between workshops and the teacher/student
situation. These are day and night, respectively and judging the
instruction or the instructor by what one sees in a workshop is misguided
and unfair.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


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