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#1
22-04-2003, 07:32 PM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
Hello all, I recently purchased a juniperus procumbens (nana) as a first bonsai. I bought it from the nursery without any prior bonsai training.
Before starting the initial pruning process, I checked with many sources as to how much is good to prune. Most sources say that only about 1/3 of the original foliage should be removed at one time. Others, however, make reference to trees with very s parse foliage after a pruning, stating that the foliage will later grow in in the desired amounts and positions. These trees seemed to have much more than 1/3 of the foliage removed. I pruned about 1/3 of the foliage off of my juniper but it is still extremely congested looking, appearing more like a bush than a tree. Would it be advisable for me to prune away all that is necessary right now, or should I wait a month or so before further pruning? Thanks alot for the help with this newbie question! John Smith - Morehead City, NC ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#2
22-04-2003, 07:56 PM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
Hello all, I recently purchased a juniperus procumbens (nana) as
a first bonsai. I bought it from the nursery without any prior bonsai training. Before starting the initial pruning process, I checked with many sources as to how much is good to prune. Most sources say that only about 1/3 of the original foliage should be removed at one time. Others, however, make reference to trees with very sparse foliage after a pruning, stating that the foliage will later grow in in the desired amounts and positions. These trees seemed to have much more than 1/3 of the foliage removed. I pruned about 1/3 of the foliage off of my juniper but it is still extremely congested looking, appearing more like a bush than a tree. Would it be advisable for me to prune away all that is necessary right now, or should I wait a month or so before further pruning? Thanks alot for the help with this newbie question! John Smith - Morehead City, NC ************************************************** *************** *************** First, I want you to head on down to the Sanitary Fishmarket and order a platter of steamed shrimp and crabs for me. I'll be right over! ;-) I'm no juniper expert by any means, but if you have done any significant root work on this tree you probably need to leave some top -- and vice versa. They don't seem to like both to happen at one sitting. If it is still in a nursery pot, you can do what you will with the top -- then do the roots NEXT spring. One thing about bonsai, you do NOT need to do it all today -- or even this year. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - A former student (in marine geology) at the Duke University marine laboratory in nearby Beaufort who lived in Morehead City for that idyllic period. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#3
22-04-2003, 08:44 PM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
At 12:51 PM 4/22/03 -0500, asmith7 wrote:
Hello all, I recently purchased a juniperus procumbens (nana) as a first bonsai. I bought it from the nursery without any prior bonsai training. Before starting the initial pruning process, I checked with many sources as to how much is good to prune. Most sources say that only about 1/3 of the original foliage should be removed at one time. Others, however, make reference to trees with very sparse foliage after a pruning, stating that the foliage will later grow in in the desired amounts and positions. These trees seemed to have much more than 1/3 of the foliage removed. I pruned about 1/3 of the foliage off of my juniper but it is still extremely congested looking, appearing more like a bush than a tree. Would it be advisable for me to prune away all that is necessary right now, or should I wait a month or so before further pruning? Thanks alot for the help with this newbie question! John What you have to understand is that formulas like 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, etc are simply _guidelines_ for beginners or the uninitiated. People who are more experienced don't use guidelines, they operate on a basis of understanding what the degree of pruning does to the plant. Experts who are very experienced can get away with a whole lot more than most folks because they know exactly what they are doing and what they response will be. Their conclusions are based on many factors: how many plants they have killed in the past, the time of the year, the species of the plant, the general health of the plant, the climate, etc. There is no substitute for experience. The reason you see the 1/3 figure so much is that you can whack off that much foliage on almost any plant, at almost anytime, and the plant will _usually_ still live. So, if you have to ask the question you asked, you are probably better off sticking to the conservative guideline. With each additional branch you remove, you increase the risk of death or severe damage. Working with plants requires a whole different viewpoint and timeline than working with non living objects. If you have at it (as most beginners are prone to do), and it dies, you learn something, but not much. If you are conservative, and watch carefully to see how the plant responds to what you did, you learn a lot more. Brent in Northern California Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14 http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#4
23-04-2003, 02:56 AM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
I bought it from the nursery without any prior bonsai training.
That's OK. You need to buy a few trees in order to get some bonsai training. ;-) Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
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#5
23-04-2003, 04:56 AM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
That's OK. You need to buy a few trees in order to get some bonsai training. Well, I don't know. Buying them won't do much for one's training, but training them sure will. ;-) Reiner Goebel Toronto, Canada http://www.rgbonsai.com |
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#7
23-04-2003, 03:56 PM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
Michael wrote:
Most importantly, you should have the TIME to work with each tree at the highest level. Quantity should not be confused with quality. YES! snip And wrote: How much is too much? Clue: the number of trees is MUCH lower than one would imagine. It takes a while for most of us to realize this FACT. You can have a gazillion ho-hum trees, a hundred OK trees, or 25-30 nice trees. I've only made it down to the OK level ;-) but now that I have a few whose potential I'm beginning to see, I've become a lot more ruthless in culling trees off my shelves. I just today planted a Chinese quince out in my yard. It had been in a pot for several years and, frankly, was a bit boring there (and probably bored itself). It'll be happier with more root run. I don't know if mame count. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#8
24-04-2003, 09:32 PM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
Don't you guys think this could be a natural progression? I'm just starting
and I've got this constant desire to get more trees - not just to have them, mind you, but because I know it's going to be years before I have any "good" trees and I want to maximize my opportunity to HAVE some really good trees. I'm not nearly educated, practiced or arrogant enough in the art of Bonsai to assume that every tree I work on is going to eventually be a masterpiece. So, by getting as many as I can and practicing on them, increasing my own experience and "hands-on" knowledge, I think (hope) I'm also increasing the likelihood that at least a few will be "Ooooh, Ahhhh" trees someday. A few years from now, when I know a lot more and the trees I have are more developed and further along in the process - yeah, I'll probably reduce how many I have. Then again - someday, I may get to retire and I'll have more time to spend with them.... Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lewis ] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:31 AM To: Subject: [IBC] How much is too much? Michael wrote: Most importantly, you should have the TIME to work with each tree at the highest level. Quantity should not be confused with quality. YES! snip And wrote: How much is too much? Clue: the number of trees is MUCH lower than one would imagine. It takes a while for most of us to realize this FACT. You can have a gazillion ho-hum trees, a hundred OK trees, or 25-30 nice trees. I've only made it down to the OK level ;-) but now that I have a few whose potential I'm beginning to see, I've become a lot more ruthless in culling trees off my shelves. I just today planted a Chinese quince out in my yard. It had been in a pot for several years and, frankly, was a bit boring there (and probably bored itself). It'll be happier with more root run. I don't know if mame count. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#9
24-04-2003, 09:56 PM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
Jeff: Take Jim's advice. MORE is not equated with BETTER in bonsai. Strike
a balance between your desire to have a surplus of trees and your urge to create some good bonsai. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 4:03 PM Subject: [IBC] How much is too much? Don't you guys think this could be a natural progression? I'm just starting and I've got this constant desire to get more trees - not just to have them, mind you, but because I know it's going to be years before I have any "good" trees and I want to maximize my opportunity to HAVE some really good trees. I'm not nearly educated, practiced or arrogant enough in the art of Bonsai to assume that every tree I work on is going to eventually be a masterpiece. So, by getting as many as I can and practicing on them, increasing my own experience and "hands-on" knowledge, I think (hope) I'm also increasing the likelihood that at least a few will be "Ooooh, Ahhhh" trees someday. A few years from now, when I know a lot more and the trees I have are more developed and further along in the process - yeah, I'll probably reduce how many I have. Then again - someday, I may get to retire and I'll have more time to spend with them.... Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lewis ] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:31 AM To: Subject: [IBC] How much is too much? Michael wrote: Most importantly, you should have the TIME to work with each tree at the highest level. Quantity should not be confused with quality. YES! snip And wrote: How much is too much? Clue: the number of trees is MUCH lower than one would imagine. It takes a while for most of us to realize this FACT. You can have a gazillion ho-hum trees, a hundred OK trees, or 25-30 nice trees. I've only made it down to the OK level ;-) but now that I have a few whose potential I'm beginning to see, I've become a lot more ruthless in culling trees off my shelves. I just today planted a Chinese quince out in my yard. It had been in a pot for several years and, frankly, was a bit boring there (and probably bored itself). It'll be happier with more root run. I don't know if mame count. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#10
24-04-2003, 11:44 PM
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[IBC] How much is too much?
PLEASE SNIP MESSAGES!
Don't you guys think this could be a natural progression? Sure it is -- and I thought that's what I at least implied. We all start out with more trees than we can really care for. I'm just starting and I've got this constant desire to get more trees - not just to have them, mind you, but because I know it's going to be years before I have any "good" trees and I want to maximize my opportunity to HAVE some really good trees. I'm not nearly educated, practiced or arrogant enough in the art of Bonsai to assume that every tree I work on is going to eventually be a masterpiece. So, by getting as many as I can and practicing on them, increasing my own experience and "hands-on" knowledge, I think (hope) I'm also increasing the likelihood that at least a few will be "Ooooh, Ahhhh" trees someday. A few years from now, when I know a lot more and the trees I have are more developed and further along in the process - yeah, I'll probably reduce how many I have. Then again - someday, I may get to retire and I'll have more time to spend with them.... HOWEVER, don't you think you could get _better_ trees if you have just a few that you could lavish some attention on? If you have so many that you can only affort to give 10 mnutes a day on them, what do you think you will have in 10 years -- or what do you think you will have learned? Better, I think (and none of us know this when we start) to have half as many trees and spend twice as much time on each. Michael wrote: Most importantly, you should have the TIME to work with each tree at the highest level. Quantity should not be confused with quality. YES! snip And wrote: How much is too much? Clue: the number of trees is MUCH lower than one would imagine. It takes a while for most of us to realize this FACT. You can have a gazillion ho-hum trees, a hundred OK trees, or 25-30 nice trees. I've only made it down to the OK level ;-) but now that I have a few whose potential I'm beginning to see, I've become a lot more ruthless in culling trees off my shelves. I just today planted a Chinese quince out in my yard. It had been in a pot for several years and, frankly, was a bit boring there (and probably bored itself). It'll be happier with more root run. I don't know if mame count. ;-) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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