Hello Lisa:

Japanese five-needle pine (name used in the bonsai world), is also
called Japanese white pine (name used by horticulturists in Western
countries), Pinus parviflora, (which has five needles per fascicle) is
generally compatible with pines with two needles per fascicle. As far
as I know, the cutivar 'Zuisho' is not compatible with pines with two
needles per fascicle. In Japan 'Zuisho' is always grafted on to
seedlings of Japanese five-needle pine, NOT Japanese black pine. I have
tried this here in the US and found when Japanese black pine is used,
the resulting small plants die quickly, while plants grafted on to
seedlings of Eastern white pine, (Pinus strobus) grew fine. Obtaining
seedlings of Pinus parviflora is difficult and expensive.

Historically, the Japanese five-needle pine has been grafted in Japan
for well over 300 years for bonsai and gardens. The Japanese have
selected cultivars for many characteristics such as needles, bark,
growth habit, etc. Normally, Japanese five-needle pine is grafted on to
Japanese black pine, Pinus thunbergi, which has two needles per
fascicle for bonsai in Japan because it is more vigorous, cheaper and
easier to find than seedlings of Pinus parviflora. The Japanese have
even used Japanese red pine, Pinus densiflora for understock as well.
Generally, there is no incompatibility with Pinus parviflora with Pinus
thunbergi. However, 'Zuisho' is not compatible. Also, there are,
perhaps 100 dwarf cultivars (called Yatsubusa) in the bonsai world).
Nearly all of them are grafted on to Japanese black pine in Japan,
while the same cultivars propagated in Western countries are grafted on
to Pinus strobus. Both grow well.

In Western countries most propagators ALWAYS graft pine with two
needles onto pines with two needles and pines with five needles on to
pines with five needles. This is what has been done, and it works, why
change it. Well the Japanese bonsai propagators also have the same
attitude, and have been using Japanese black pine for understock for
centuries.

I have not seen any of the grafted Pinus parviflora die after 15 to 20
years as your horticulturist stated, but I have only been growing and
studying bonsai for 40 years.... How long has he been studying the
compatibility of these two pines?

As far as why graft and to grow seedlings, we use cultivars of Pinus
parviflora because they are far superior to the seedlings which vary
tremendously. Most have twisted needles, which are not the best for
bonsai.

Grafted bonsai are often sought from Japan, not only because of the
shape and rare cultivars, but because of the graft union (place where
graft is made). In the bonsai world, both in Japan and the US, bonsai
propagators make the graft union in the crown of the plant, directly on
the roots to avoid an ungly graft scar. Yes, I know, some commercially
made grafted bonsai in Japan are made much higher, sometimes up to the
first branch. But, you have to realize that these commercially bonsai
are NOT used in Japan, they are always exported to Western countries,
where they are highly prized. In Japan they are not accepted and only
grown for export and often also used as disposable holiday gifts for
the New Year Season in January. These bonsai are generally disposed of
after the holidays. Westerners like them so the Japanese export them
because they can make money from them. Look at the bonsai exhibited in
Japanese shows, how many grafted Pinus parviflora do you see?

In Western countries propagators graft up higher on the understock
because it is easier, and that is how they were taught from European
grafters who eventually taught all the US grafters. It was far too time
consuming to find the roots, then graft that far low. Besides, who
cares about the "graft union" because the plants are going to be in a
garden. Remember these are propagators for garden use, not bonsai
propagators.

Hope this helps!

Bill

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Many thanks, Bill. I shall forward your answer to my fellow club members,
one of whom is a bonsai nurseryman. They will no doubt be very interested.
I'll also send it to the Melbourne groups.
Your explanation concerning the grafting method of the West once more
brought it home to me how difficult it can be to grow bonsai from ordinary
nursery material. The long, and comparatively coarse, Pinus thunbergii
understock contrasts i.m.h.o. quite unpleasantly with the smoother bark and
more slender trunk of Pinus parviflora. I have tried to make the transition
from the one to the other less obvious by scoring the trunk just above the
graft, hoping that the scar tissue would simulate the rougher bark of the
stock, but so far with no satisfactory result. I guess the only remedy is to
hide the graft by bringing down the foliage.

Lisa

"William Valavanis" wrote in message
...
Hello Lisa:

Japanese five-needle pine (name used in the bonsai world), is also
called Japanese white pine (name used by horticulturists in Western
countries), Pinus parviflora, (which has five needles per fascicle) is
generally compatible with pines with two needles per fascicle. As far
as I know, the cutivar 'Zuisho' is not compatible with pines with two
needles per fascicle. In Japan 'Zuisho' is always grafted on to
seedlings of Japanese five-needle pine, NOT Japanese black pine. I have
tried this here in the US and found when Japanese black pine is used,
the resulting small plants die quickly, while plants grafted on to
seedlings of Eastern white pine, (Pinus strobus) grew fine. Obtaining
seedlings of Pinus parviflora is difficult and expensive.

Historically, the Japanese five-needle pine has been grafted in Japan
for well over 300 years for bonsai and gardens. The Japanese have
selected cultivars for many characteristics such as needles, bark,
growth habit, etc. Normally, Japanese five-needle pine is grafted on to
Japanese black pine, Pinus thunbergi, which has two needles per
fascicle for bonsai in Japan because it is more vigorous, cheaper and
easier to find than seedlings of Pinus parviflora. The Japanese have
even used Japanese red pine, Pinus densiflora for understock as well.
Generally, there is no incompatibility with Pinus parviflora with Pinus
thunbergi. However, 'Zuisho' is not compatible. Also, there are,
perhaps 100 dwarf cultivars (called Yatsubusa) in the bonsai world).
Nearly all of them are grafted on to Japanese black pine in Japan,
while the same cultivars propagated in Western countries are grafted on
to Pinus strobus. Both grow well.

In Western countries most propagators ALWAYS graft pine with two
needles onto pines with two needles and pines with five needles on to
pines with five needles. This is what has been done, and it works, why
change it. Well the Japanese bonsai propagators also have the same
attitude, and have been using Japanese black pine for understock for
centuries.

I have not seen any of the grafted Pinus parviflora die after 15 to 20
years as your horticulturist stated, but I have only been growing and
studying bonsai for 40 years.... How long has he been studying the
compatibility of these two pines?

As far as why graft and to grow seedlings, we use cultivars of Pinus
parviflora because they are far superior to the seedlings which vary
tremendously. Most have twisted needles, which are not the best for
bonsai.

Grafted bonsai are often sought from Japan, not only because of the
shape and rare cultivars, but because of the graft union (place where
graft is made). In the bonsai world, both in Japan and the US, bonsai
propagators make the graft union in the crown of the plant, directly on
the roots to avoid an ungly graft scar. Yes, I know, some commercially
made grafted bonsai in Japan are made much higher, sometimes up to the
first branch. But, you have to realize that these commercially bonsai
are NOT used in Japan, they are always exported to Western countries,
where they are highly prized. In Japan they are not accepted and only
grown for export and often also used as disposable holiday gifts for
the New Year Season in January. These bonsai are generally disposed of
after the holidays. Westerners like them so the Japanese export them
because they can make money from them. Look at the bonsai exhibited in
Japanese shows, how many grafted Pinus parviflora do you see?

In Western countries propagators graft up higher on the understock
because it is easier, and that is how they were taught from European
grafters who eventually taught all the US grafters. It was far too time
consuming to find the roots, then graft that far low. Besides, who
cares about the "graft union" because the plants are going to be in a
garden. Remember these are propagators for garden use, not bonsai
propagators.

Hope this helps!

Bill


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

At 06:18 PM 6/7/03 +1000, Lisa Kanis wrote:
At the recent Australian Associated Bonsai Clubs' annual Seminar, we had a
talk by Leo Coolwyn, who is a wholesale nurseryman with a great deal of
experience in growing and propagating conifers. One of the subjects he spoke
about was the latent incompatibility of the Japanese Black Pine and the
Japanese White Pine when it comes to grafting. The 5 needle White Pine is
commonly grafted onto the more vigorous 2 needle Black Pine and for a number
of years this appears to be working well, but it has been found that
eventually, the White Pine gradually deteriorates and dies. This may happen
as late as 15 to 20 years after the graft has taken. According to Mr
Coolwyn, pine grafting has to be specific, i.e. 5 needle pines onto 5 needle
pines, 2 needle onto 2 needle, and so on.

I wonder about the source of the information. Is this anecdotal, or has
there been some serious study of the alleged problem? I have seen many P.
parviflora grafted to P. thunbergii that are older than 15 to 20 years. Any
time you see a white pine semi cascade with rough bark and a peculiar
coiled pattern (from an imbedded wire) with a transition to smooth bark, it
is P.p. to P.t. Most of these come from Japan.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/...s/rebs0214.jpg

The tree above is probably forty to fifty years old. The only way to know
for sure if there is a problem is to cut open the graft union of a tree
that has 'failed' and study the pattern.

I asked on which pine the Japanese White could be grafted as there aren't
that many 5 needle pines to choose from, and whether in the end there was
any sense in grafting it at all. The answer was that, at the moment, that
was the big question, but the matter was being researched.

In the US, the pine of choice is P. strobus, but I have also used P.
strobiformis (both five needled white pine). Of course it can be grafted to
itself, P.p. to P.p. to obtain cultivars, but this doesn't solve the
problems that P.p species has when growing in other than its native habitat.

I am posting this because I wonder if more is known by specialised
horticulturists in N.America.

I am continuing to graft to P.p. to P.t. No observed problems in the first
five years. In fact the opposite has been true. They have done much better
on P.t. than on anything else, but of course if there is a latent
incompatibility, it won't show for many more years. It is difficult for me
to believe that if there is a problem, it has not been documented by the
Japanese who have been doing this for decades if not centuries.

Additionally, I have two questions:
1) There have been many complaints about the difficulty of growing the
Japanese White Pine. Could the above have anything to do with it?

The 'difficult' part is certainly true, but I have just as much trouble
growing seedlings as the grafts. I don't think this is the problem since my
P.p. to P.t. grafts have been more vigorous and better survivors than any
of the other grafts or seedlings. What I have found about P.p., at least in
containers, is that you cannot expose them to direct sunlight when it is
very hot (100+F). The needles will scorch and the roots will die from the
overheated pots. Growing them under 30 to 40% shadecloth all day seems to
solve this. I have had very few losses since keeping them under shadecloth
all spring, summer, and fall. They are still as vigorous, if not more so.

2) A lot of people swear by the importance of buying trees imported from
Japan. I have always wondered why. Do Japanese grafting methods differ from
those used in the West, by any chance?

No, I doubt if that is the answer to the problem, if there is one. The
method of course is the side veneer graft, the Japanese use it too.

Are Japanese trees more viable?

No.

I will venture a guess. P.p are difficult to grow outside their native
habitat, _period_. Your speaker, I take it, is speaking from AU experience.
Most of AU has a Mediterranean climate similar to mine, that is, very hot
dry summer, long cool wet winter, just like ours. This is a most difficult
climate for P.p. This species often dies for no apparent reason. It would
be quite easy to blame it on graft incompatibilty, but I want proof. I
won't believe it until I see pictures of the wood pattern in the graft
union. It should be quite obvious.

I will relate a similar situation. For years US Northwest nurserymen, all
respected folk and otherwise good human beings, maintained that you
couldn't grow Japanese maple cultivars on their own roots, they were too
weak and would eventually die. Of course all these folk had a lot invested
in grafting Acer palmatum cultivars. I'm not saying this is deliberate
deceit, however, it doesn influence your view of the world. After decades
of successful cutting production of A.p., you rarely hear this view
anymore. The big problem is not having the cuttings survive, it's getting
them to root in the first place. Nearly all of the broadleaf cultivars are
happy as clams on their own roots and not too difficult to propagate. You
don't see the dissectum cuttings for the simple reason that they are nearly
impossible to root and grafting is the onlly commerically viable option.




Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

At 07:02 AM 6/7/03 -0400, William Valavanis wrote:

Bill

Thanks for replying, I knew you would have some cogent remarks.

...As far
as I know, the cutivar 'Zuisho' is not compatible with pines with two
needles per fascicle. In Japan 'Zuisho' is always grafted on to
seedlings of Japanese five-needle pine, NOT Japanese black pine. I have
tried this here in the US and found when Japanese black pine is used,
the resulting small plants die quickly, while plants grafted on to
seedlings of Eastern white pine, (Pinus strobus) grew fine. ...

Could you elucidate? What age are they failing? What is the nature of the
failure? Are the grafts taking, and then dying? Anything you can add would
be greatly appreciated.






Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thank you very much, Brent.
I am beginning to feel like a perfect fool regarding this grafting question,
but at the same time I'm thinking myself quite privileged for having
received such great answers. I shall try to contact Leo Coolwyn and the
chief organiser of the AABC 2003 Seminar in Melbourne, who is a
dyed-in-the-wool bonsai nurseryman, to see if I can get some more info on
Coolwyn's findings.

Lisa

"Brent Walston" wrote in message
ic.net...
At 06:18 PM 6/7/03 +1000, Lisa Kanis wrote:
At the recent Australian Associated Bonsai Clubs' annual Seminar, we had
a
talk by Leo Coolwyn, who is a wholesale nurseryman with a great deal of
experience in growing and propagating conifers. One of the subjects he
spoke
about was the latent incompatibility of the Japanese Black Pine and the
Japanese White Pine when it comes to grafting. The 5 needle White Pine is
commonly grafted onto the more vigorous 2 needle Black Pine and for a
number
of years this appears to be working well, but it has been found that
eventually, the White Pine gradually deteriorates and dies. This may
happen
as late as 15 to 20 years after the graft has taken. According to Mr
Coolwyn, pine grafting has to be specific, i.e. 5 needle pines onto 5
needle
pines, 2 needle onto 2 needle, and so on.

I wonder about the source of the information. Is this anecdotal, or has
there been some serious study of the alleged problem? I have seen many P.
parviflora grafted to P. thunbergii that are older than 15 to 20 years.
Any
time you see a white pine semi cascade with rough bark and a peculiar
coiled pattern (from an imbedded wire) with a transition to smooth bark,
it
is P.p. to P.t. Most of these come from Japan.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/...s/rebs0214.jpg

The tree above is probably forty to fifty years old. The only way to know
for sure if there is a problem is to cut open the graft union of a tree
that has 'failed' and study the pattern.

I asked on which pine the Japanese White could be grafted as there aren't
that many 5 needle pines to choose from, and whether in the end there was
any sense in grafting it at all. The answer was that, at the moment, that
was the big question, but the matter was being researched.

In the US, the pine of choice is P. strobus, but I have also used P.
strobiformis (both five needled white pine). Of course it can be grafted
to
itself, P.p. to P.p. to obtain cultivars, but this doesn't solve the
problems that P.p species has when growing in other than its native
habitat.

I am posting this because I wonder if more is known by specialised
horticulturists in N.America.

I am continuing to graft to P.p. to P.t. No observed problems in the first
five years. In fact the opposite has been true. They have done much better
on P.t. than on anything else, but of course if there is a latent
incompatibility, it won't show for many more years. It is difficult for me
to believe that if there is a problem, it has not been documented by the
Japanese who have been doing this for decades if not centuries.

Additionally, I have two questions:
1) There have been many complaints about the difficulty of growing the
Japanese White Pine. Could the above have anything to do with it?

The 'difficult' part is certainly true, but I have just as much trouble
growing seedlings as the grafts. I don't think this is the problem since
my
P.p. to P.t. grafts have been more vigorous and better survivors than any
of the other grafts or seedlings. What I have found about P.p., at least
in
containers, is that you cannot expose them to direct sunlight when it is
very hot (100+F). The needles will scorch and the roots will die from the
overheated pots. Growing them under 30 to 40% shadecloth all day seems to
solve this. I have had very few losses since keeping them under shadecloth
all spring, summer, and fall. They are still as vigorous, if not more so.

2) A lot of people swear by the importance of buying trees imported from
Japan. I have always wondered why. Do Japanese grafting methods differ
from
those used in the West, by any chance?

No, I doubt if that is the answer to the problem, if there is one. The
method of course is the side veneer graft, the Japanese use it too.

Are Japanese trees more viable?

No.

I will venture a guess. P.p are difficult to grow outside their native
habitat, _period_. Your speaker, I take it, is speaking from AU
experience.
Most of AU has a Mediterranean climate similar to mine, that is, very hot
dry summer, long cool wet winter, just like ours. This is a most difficult
climate for P.p. This species often dies for no apparent reason. It would
be quite easy to blame it on graft incompatibilty, but I want proof. I
won't believe it until I see pictures of the wood pattern in the graft
union. It should be quite obvious.

I will relate a similar situation. For years US Northwest nurserymen, all
respected folk and otherwise good human beings, maintained that you
couldn't grow Japanese maple cultivars on their own roots, they were too
weak and would eventually die. Of course all these folk had a lot invested
in grafting Acer palmatum cultivars. I'm not saying this is deliberate
deceit, however, it doesn influence your view of the world. After decades
of successful cutting production of A.p., you rarely hear this view
anymore. The big problem is not having the cuttings survive, it's getting
them to root in the first place. Nearly all of the broadleaf cultivars
are
happy as clams on their own roots and not too difficult to propagate. You
don't see the dissectum cuttings for the simple reason that they are
nearly
impossible to root and grafting is the onlly commerically viable option.




Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi sorry to intrude but I have read also that the Penta are better grafted onto
another penta as they have the tendency to split from black pine stock
... I have one Go-yo that was labelled born in 1965 when I bought it, and is
still fine and have since 20 years the trunk is huger than a huge fist and
apparently has been grafted as the upword bark is smooth and the down one has
scales ! but it is veyr hard to see as is covered by thick branches

It is in this book by Abe Kurackici but edited apparently only in Italian ( I
have a copy)
" How to make a Pine Bonsai " (Come creare un Bonsai di Pino )( penthaphilla
as deals only about penthaphilla)
The Chapters starts in Black
Grafted Bonsais
The Penthaphilla Pine must be grafted on a Penthaphilla
Generally is grafted on a black pine, but such a bonsai will never be well
accepte, because even after houndreds of years one can notice the grafting
point. These Bonsais are defined Tsigimono ( grafted ) or TSUKURIMONO (
artificial) The bark of both pines will never be even /equal as well as the
difference due to the the roots system, If grafting is require ( penta on a
black pine root) is the very best to practice it as low as possible near the
roots
The joint between two penta will disappers with time , with black pine some
problems might be rising later .. and he adds some sketch that show how
they can split . or grow disgraciously os swollen in the grating point
Theo


the chapterLisa Kanis wrote:

Thank you very much, Brent.
I am beginning to feel like a perfect fool regarding this grafting question,
but at the same time I'm thinking myself quite privileged for having
received such great answers. I shall try to contact Leo Coolwyn and the
chief organiser of the AABC 2003 Seminar in Melbourne, who is a
dyed-in-the-wool bonsai nurseryman, to see if I can get some more info on
Coolwyn's findings.

Lisa

"Brent Walston" wrote in message
ic.net...
At 06:18 PM 6/7/03 +1000, Lisa Kanis wrote:
At the recent Australian Associated Bonsai Clubs' annual Seminar, we had
a
talk by Leo Coolwyn, who is a wholesale nurseryman with a great deal of
experience in growing and propagating conifers. One of the subjects he
spoke
about was the latent incompatibility of the Japanese Black Pine and the
Japanese White Pine when it comes to grafting. The 5 needle White Pine is
commonly grafted onto the more vigorous 2 needle Black Pine and for a
number
of years this appears to be working well, but it has been found that
eventually, the White Pine gradually deteriorates and dies. This may
happen
as late as 15 to 20 years after the graft has taken. According to Mr
Coolwyn, pine grafting has to be specific, i.e. 5 needle pines onto 5
needle
pines, 2 needle onto 2 needle, and so on.

I wonder about the source of the information. Is this anecdotal, or has
there been some serious study of the alleged problem? I have seen many P.
parviflora grafted to P. thunbergii that are older than 15 to 20 years.
Any
time you see a white pine semi cascade with rough bark and a peculiar
coiled pattern (from an imbedded wire) with a transition to smooth bark,
it
is P.p. to P.t. Most of these come from Japan.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/...s/rebs0214.jpg

The tree above is probably forty to fifty years old. The only way to know
for sure if there is a problem is to cut open the graft union of a tree
that has 'failed' and study the pattern.

I asked on which pine the Japanese White could be grafted as there aren't
that many 5 needle pines to choose from, and whether in the end there was
any sense in grafting it at all. The answer was that, at the moment, that
was the big question, but the matter was being researched.

In the US, the pine of choice is P. strobus, but I have also used P.
strobiformis (both five needled white pine). Of course it can be grafted
to
itself, P.p. to P.p. to obtain cultivars, but this doesn't solve the
problems that P.p species has when growing in other than its native
habitat.

I am posting this because I wonder if more is known by specialised
horticulturists in N.America.

I am continuing to graft to P.p. to P.t. No observed problems in the first
five years. In fact the opposite has been true. They have done much better
on P.t. than on anything else, but of course if there is a latent
incompatibility, it won't show for many more years. It is difficult for me
to believe that if there is a problem, it has not been documented by the
Japanese who have been doing this for decades if not centuries.

Additionally, I have two questions:
1) There have been many complaints about the difficulty of growing the
Japanese White Pine. Could the above have anything to do with it?

The 'difficult' part is certainly true, but I have just as much trouble
growing seedlings as the grafts. I don't think this is the problem since
my
P.p. to P.t. grafts have been more vigorous and better survivors than any
of the other grafts or seedlings. What I have found about P.p., at least
in
containers, is that you cannot expose them to direct sunlight when it is
very hot (100+F). The needles will scorch and the roots will die from the
overheated pots. Growing them under 30 to 40% shadecloth all day seems to
solve this. I have had very few losses since keeping them under shadecloth
all spring, summer, and fall. They are still as vigorous, if not more so.

2) A lot of people swear by the importance of buying trees imported from
Japan. I have always wondered why. Do Japanese grafting methods differ
from
those used in the West, by any chance?

No, I doubt if that is the answer to the problem, if there is one. The
method of course is the side veneer graft, the Japanese use it too.

Are Japanese trees more viable?

No.

I will venture a guess. P.p are difficult to grow outside their native
habitat, _period_. Your speaker, I take it, is speaking from AU
experience.
Most of AU has a Mediterranean climate similar to mine, that is, very hot
dry summer, long cool wet winter, just like ours. This is a most difficult
climate for P.p. This species often dies for no apparent reason. It would
be quite easy to blame it on graft incompatibilty, but I want proof. I
won't believe it until I see pictures of the wood pattern in the graft
union. It should be quite obvious.

I will relate a similar situation. For years US Northwest nurserymen, all
respected folk and otherwise good human beings, maintained that you
couldn't grow Japanese maple cultivars on their own roots, they were too
weak and would eventually die. Of course all these folk had a lot invested
in grafting Acer palmatum cultivars. I'm not saying this is deliberate
deceit, however, it doesn influence your view of the world. After decades
of successful cutting production of A.p., you rarely hear this view
anymore. The big problem is not having the cuttings survive, it's getting
them to root in the first place. Nearly all of the broadleaf cultivars
are
happy as clams on their own roots and not too difficult to propagate. You
don't see the dissectum cuttings for the simple reason that they are
nearly
impossible to root and grafting is the onlly commerically viable option.




Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

--
Think like an Alien and visit your own Planet
Theo
http://www.byjoke.com/

Folks:

One of my surviving and thriving trees is a P.p.
(See prvious post titled Requiem about my other trees)
I have been its proud owner for a bit over ten years.
It is grafted on Japanese black pine base, quite high up,
just as Bill Valavanis described it in his post. When I
acquired this tree it was at least 10 to 15 years old.

I also had several P.p. that were grown from seed.
All but one has died after a couple of years in the
Oklahoma weather.

Pictures are available on request.


Peter Aradi
Tulsa, Oklahoma

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Thanks, Peter.
I am very sorry to hear about so many of your trees dying. How the heck does
one cope with something like that?? I hope that at least some of your 42
empty pots will soon house some really good bonsai stuff....
Best wishes,
Lisa

"p.aradi" wrote in message
. ..
Folks:

One of my surviving and thriving trees is a P.p.
(See prvious post titled Requiem about my other trees)
I have been its proud owner for a bit over ten years.
It is grafted on Japanese black pine base, quite high up,
just as Bill Valavanis described it in his post. When I
acquired this tree it was at least 10 to 15 years old.

I also had several P.p. that were grown from seed.
All but one has died after a couple of years in the
Oklahoma weather.

Pictures are available on request.


Peter Aradi
Tulsa, Oklahoma


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****
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++