[IBC] was Artificial lighting, Now swamps
 

Just trying to help. Your post prompted more questions than
information. Sorry if I offended you. I guess the gist of what I was
trying to say was that by the time you figure out what it's going to
take to get the bald cypress to grow successfully indoors, you'll have
upset what's working for the rest of your trees. (maybe a Dupla
substrate heater?)

You have a nice day.

Bill Butler

You could be right, the main probelm I have is I am not really trying to bonsai
these trees but what i am trying to do is set up a living display (stylized) of
what a swamp looks like. I spent a lot of time and effort in the swamp
observing what was going on with the trees and the associated plants. I was
amazed when it turned out that fish lived much better under the conditions in
my "Swamp" than they ever did in an aquarium. It took many years and the final
product was only set up for a couple of months beofre hurricane Floyd and
another less well known storm ended my work in progress. I am sure if it had
been allowed to mature for four or five years my "Swamp" would have been an
even more amazing sight. I do have a small 15 gallon tank indoors that i have
had set up as a "Swamp" tank for five years now and it looks great. I'm not
even sure i can recreate the originale due to heath problems ( I am disabled)
and money problems. (it takes a lot of money to play sometimes!) I thank you
for your efforts to help me. since the problem of not growing extends to some
other plants but not to some I suspect there is something i am missing and I am
too old and weak to promise i ever find the problem. sometimes you have to
admit your limitations. I am going to give it a try one more time and I will
post the results with pictures for anyone who is interested but it's still not
really bonsai, more of a freshwater version of a coral reef aquarium. which is
exactly what i wanted to do. I figured if something as delecate as coral can be
grown and culitivated under artificial lights then cypress should be easy
considering how easy they are to grow. I guess I will find out.

Moon

[IBC] was Artificial lighting, Now swamps
 

It wasn't until your second post that I understood that you were
trying to grow a vivarium. I thought you were trying to do pure
bonsai with trees that are strictly outdoor bonsai species. This is
where our two hobbies diverge greatly. Bonsai involves the extreemly
limited growth of trees. You stated that you have exceptional growth
of several species. For us, that just won't do except in the very
early development of trees that are destined to be (but not yet)
bonsai.

I'm not the best aquarium plant keeper, but I know that I'm doing
everything I can to force the most out of my plants. I fertilize to
the maximum dosage and I have a CO2 injection system. Then I go
outside and cut fertilizer to half doses for my bonsai and cut out
nitrogens when growth it too great. You're putting nitrifying fish
into the equation and enjoying the growth you get. (Hmmmmm.... maybe
I'll put a fish pond in my backyard and sink my bald cypress
pre-bonsai pots into them to encourage growth....)

Bonsai can provide you with styling tips (proportion, scale, branch
placement) but beyond that, your aquarium is doing too much to promote
exceptional growth. Maybe when you pull out the larger trees from
your aquarium swamp, you can sell them off as bonsai stock.
Especially if you've been controlling branch placement.

You find yourself where many hobbyists want to be (and other fear to
be): Pioneering techniques. You're going to kill a number of trees in
a number of ways. Other trees will show growth in excess of scale for
the vivarium. Somewhere in between you'll find the right balance of
light, food, temperature to make it all work and remain stable.
That's when you publish.

Good luck.

Bill Butler

On 14 Jul 2003 05:13:04 GMT, ospam (Moontanman)
wrote:

Just trying to help. Your post prompted more questions than
information. Sorry if I offended you. I guess the gist of what I was
trying to say was that by the time you figure out what it's going to
take to get the bald cypress to grow successfully indoors, you'll have
upset what's working for the rest of your trees. (maybe a Dupla
substrate heater?)

You have a nice day.

Bill Butler

You could be right, the main probelm I have is I am not really trying to bonsai
these trees but what i am trying to do is set up a living display (stylized) of
what a swamp looks like. I spent a lot of time and effort in the swamp
observing what was going on with the trees and the associated plants. I was
amazed when it turned out that fish lived much better under the conditions in
my "Swamp" than they ever did in an aquarium. It took many years and the final
product was only set up for a couple of months beofre hurricane Floyd and
another less well known storm ended my work in progress. I am sure if it had
been allowed to mature for four or five years my "Swamp" would have been an
even more amazing sight. I do have a small 15 gallon tank indoors that i have
had set up as a "Swamp" tank for five years now and it looks great. I'm not
even sure i can recreate the originale due to heath problems ( I am disabled)
and money problems. (it takes a lot of money to play sometimes!) I thank you
for your efforts to help me. since the problem of not growing extends to some
other plants but not to some I suspect there is something i am missing and I am
too old and weak to promise i ever find the problem. sometimes you have to
admit your limitations. I am going to give it a try one more time and I will
post the results with pictures for anyone who is interested but it's still not
really bonsai, more of a freshwater version of a coral reef aquarium. which is
exactly what i wanted to do. I figured if something as delecate as coral can be
grown and culitivated under artificial lights then cypress should be easy
considering how easy they are to grow. I guess I will find out.

Moon

[IBC] was Artificial lighting, Now swamps
 

It wasn't until your second post that I understood that you were
trying to grow a vivarium. I thought you were trying to do pure
bonsai with trees that are strictly outdoor bonsai species. This is
where our two hobbies diverge greatly. Bonsai involves the extreemly
limited growth of trees. You stated that you have exceptional growth
of several species. For us, that just won't do except in the very
early development of trees that are destined to be (but not yet)
bonsai.

I'm not the best aquarium plant keeper, but I know that I'm doing
everything I can to force the most out of my plants. I fertilize to
the maximum dosage and I have a CO2 injection system. Then I go
outside and cut fertilizer to half doses for my bonsai and cut out
nitrogens when growth it too great. You're putting nitrifying fish
into the equation and enjoying the growth you get. (Hmmmmm.... maybe
I'll put a fish pond in my backyard and sink my bald cypress
pre-bonsai pots into them to encourage growth....)

Bonsai can provide you with styling tips (proportion, scale, branch
placement) but beyond that, your aquarium is doing too much to promote
exceptional growth. Maybe when you pull out the larger trees from
your aquarium swamp, you can sell them off as bonsai stock.
Especially if you've been controlling branch placement.

You find yourself where many hobbyists want to be (and other fear to
be): Pioneering techniques. You're going to kill a number of trees in
a number of ways. Other trees will show growth in excess of scale for
the vivarium. Somewhere in between you'll find the right balance of
light, food, temperature to make it all work and remain stable.
That's when you publish.

Good luck.

Bill Butler

On 14 Jul 2003 05:13:04 GMT, ospam (Moontanman)
wrote:

Just trying to help. Your post prompted more questions than
information. Sorry if I offended you. I guess the gist of what I was
trying to say was that by the time you figure out what it's going to
take to get the bald cypress to grow successfully indoors, you'll have
upset what's working for the rest of your trees. (maybe a Dupla
substrate heater?)

You have a nice day.

Bill Butler

You could be right, the main probelm I have is I am not really trying to bonsai
these trees but what i am trying to do is set up a living display (stylized) of
what a swamp looks like. I spent a lot of time and effort in the swamp
observing what was going on with the trees and the associated plants. I was
amazed when it turned out that fish lived much better under the conditions in
my "Swamp" than they ever did in an aquarium. It took many years and the final
product was only set up for a couple of months beofre hurricane Floyd and
another less well known storm ended my work in progress. I am sure if it had
been allowed to mature for four or five years my "Swamp" would have been an
even more amazing sight. I do have a small 15 gallon tank indoors that i have
had set up as a "Swamp" tank for five years now and it looks great. I'm not
even sure i can recreate the originale due to heath problems ( I am disabled)
and money problems. (it takes a lot of money to play sometimes!) I thank you
for your efforts to help me. since the problem of not growing extends to some
other plants but not to some I suspect there is something i am missing and I am
too old and weak to promise i ever find the problem. sometimes you have to
admit your limitations. I am going to give it a try one more time and I will
post the results with pictures for anyone who is interested but it's still not
really bonsai, more of a freshwater version of a coral reef aquarium. which is
exactly what i wanted to do. I figured if something as delecate as coral can be
grown and culitivated under artificial lights then cypress should be easy
considering how easy they are to grow. I guess I will find out.

Moon