in September, I found that a great deal of the roots where
rotting because
of the poor soil, drainage and over watering. Since repotting,
it has
produced lots of new leaves that seem very happy. I haven't
seen a yellow
leaf since. I'm reluctant to let it suffer through a winter
because of the
late repotting, weak root system and lack of leaves.


I'd probably vote to keep this one inside.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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It seems difficult to leave your "babies" outside in the snow
bank, when
you've devoted so much time and effort to them all
spring/summer.

At first, yes, but once you get accustomed to the cycles of the
seasons it isn't
hard.


I guess this is where the "tough love" part comes in !!


I guess it isn't so much that. It's trusting nature.



IMHO, you should never try to fool -- or trust -- Ma Nature.
Much as I love Her, She is a fickle, frivolous Hussy. ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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Shelly / Craig;

Are you suggesting I leave the Bloodgood indoors ?
Hmmmmm .....
I started a dozen trees from seeds this spring from a parent
tree in my
mothers front yard.
Her tree is a multi-trunk that's 25 feet tall.
30 years ago she was told it was a Bloodgood, and from my
research, it
certainly looks like one.
Maybe it's the seedlings that can't survive the cold.
This would account for the fact that none of her garden
seedlings have ever
survived the winter.

Mark



The Japanese maples (ALL of them) are among the trees that should
be kept overwinter in an attached, dark, garage. Even if some
Japanese maples thrive in the ground in your neighborhood, their
survival rate in pots is at least one climate zone warmer.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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Mark,

What Jim said. Unheated garage will do. I would not keep the tree inside
the house. Mine are in the garage, in very low light conditions, and they
are fine. Like we've already established, light isn't a requirement during
dormancy. Seedlings certainly need a little TLC to make it through to
spring.
Regards,
Shelly Hurd Central CA - Sunset Zone 8-USDA Zone 9


"Mark Hill" wrote:

Shelly / Craig;

Are you suggesting I leave the Bloodgood indoors ?
Hmmmmm .....
I started a dozen trees from seeds this spring. SNIP

Thanks Jim.
I'll keep it inside this year and give it some dormancy next winter.
Hopefully it'll survive this winter and turn into a healthy tree by next
summer.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Jim Lewis
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:44 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Why Mulch ??

in September, I found that a great deal of the roots where
rotting because
of the poor soil, drainage and over watering. Since repotting,
it has
produced lots of new leaves that seem very happy. I haven't
seen a yellow
leaf since. I'm reluctant to let it suffer through a winter
because of the
late repotting, weak root system and lack of leaves.


I'd probably vote to keep this one inside.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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****
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****
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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Hi Mark.

I'm well south of you, but not so far south that my bonsai & potensai roots
don't freeze solid in the winter-- even in a cold garage. I was surprised
that it doesn't take long before a chopstick applied to the rootball merely
hits a frozen object and stays that way. Folks with elaborate facilities
might try to avoid freeezing but it must be an oh-so-much-more-delicate
process of control than encouraging modest freezing after it truly gets that
cold.

The only potted Japanese maples I've lost to freezing were threadleaf
varieties. They were fully exposed when cold hit, & I was travelling.
Bloodgood is very winter hardy.

Then, again... my experience is that crape myrtles (the full-sized
varieties) do fine, even when exposed, if they don't dry-out during a
freeze-thaw cycle. Following Nina's advice mitigates that occuring. Your
will experience MUCH colder winters than mine-- your advantage is that the
interim thaws will be fewer. We can each be satisfied (even excited) about
our winter experience. Even Reiner... :-)))

Bonsai, btw, can be beautiful accents to your home on a moonlit night in
snowfall. Asian cultures speak of fruits (plum/apricot) coming to bloom at
the first blush of spring. J. quinces might be a safer bet in handling
cold... & they re-bloom and fruit wonderfully, too.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA USA

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Mark Hill wrote:

Shelly / Craig;

Are you suggesting I leave the Bloodgood indoors ?
Hmmmmm .....

Not at all. Keep them outside.


I started a dozen trees from seeds this spring from a parent tree in my
mothers front yard.
Her tree is a multi-trunk that's 25 feet tall.
30 years ago she was told it was a Bloodgood, and from my research, it
certainly looks like one.
Maybe it's the seedlings that can't survive the cold.
This would account for the fact that none of her garden seedlings have ever
survived the winter.

Mark

The seedlings should stay outside, just mulch them well.

Craig Cowing
NY
zone 5b/6a Sunset 3

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As flip as I was yesterday about living in California,
we do, every 7-10 years or so get what is called a
killer frost in the SF Bay area. Huge trees
established in the ground freeze so hard the bark pops
off. Problem is that we don't always know which
frosts will be the killer ones. I think it is the
sudden shock of these frosts that does plants in.
There is no gradual chilling process, just the shock
of sudden freze.

For years I would run out in the dark of a freezing
night to try to put a sheet over the manderin orange
tree in the ground. It was easy at first, but now
that it is 10-12 feet high, I haven't had the help or
the energy to do this and the tree has survived. It
is sourrounded by fence and is near the house.
Perhaps that area never gets that cold.

But I have lost Californina oakbonsai to killer
frosts. My bonfire maples do fine. Much of my
somewhat delicate stuff is under the shade cloth which
perserves a bit of warmth, but succulents will go
mushy there. Some of the succlunts and the citrus go
in the front porch where I can throw a sheet over them
if necessary.

I can't seem to grow protea here beause they don't
last more than a few years without getting killed by
frost. I had a small Texas ebony for about 7 years
before the frost got it.

Unfortunately the frosts come when I am sort of in
hibernation and don't have all my senses active (some
would argue that I seldom do).

Kitsune Miko

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Are you suggesting I leave the Bloodgood indoors ?
Hmmmmm .....


Japanese maples do well outdoors in winter with protection (in zone 6/7). They do get dieback from cold winds, so they need shelter. I use hay bales as windbreaks for my bonsai, and I put the maples right next to the bales.

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Thanks all for your advice and encouragement.

I'll dig and mulch my trees this weekend, in a spot that won't get much
sunshine or wind.

Another question ..... How about drainage ??
My soil is rather clay like.
Puddles form in driving rain which slowly drains away.
Should I dig a deeper hole and put a layer of mulch below the pots, put the
pots/trees in the hole then mulch over the pot up to the first branch?

I'm assuming if they're covered in snow, they'll be frozen and won't require
water ..... right ??


Mark
It's going to be difficult looking at those snow mounds, knowing my "babies"
are buried beneath.
Am I allowed to peek ??

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One other thing mulching-in does that I don't think anyone mentioned. It
helps keep shallow-potted, small-potted, root-bound items from drying out
while other trees are still moist. This can be a problem if you aren't
checking on stuff all the time ( like I don't!) and some items might get to
dry and damage. I have a couple trees that I had this problem with in the
past so now each year I just mulch them into boxes.
BTW, for "touchy" things here in the NE ( for me anyway) like Tridents,
Satsuki, Needle Juniper, Bald Cypress I put them in styrofoam boxes with
some holes in bottom, a layer of mulch in bottom, tree w/ pot inside, then
mulch up over pot. Works great, no problems. Just watch to not OVERWATER
these.
Regards,
Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

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Thanks Dale

I have two nice azaleas in training pots about 12 X 18 X 6 inch that I was
wondering what to do with.
I know they don't like wind, so I was considering digging them in between my
house and a fence, then mounding mulch up to the first branch.

Your idea sounds better.

I'll try not to over water them, but it sure is tempting !!

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: dalecochoy ]
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:37 PM
To: Mark Hill;
Subject: [IBC] Why Mulch ??

One other thing mulching-in does that I don't think anyone mentioned. It
helps keep shallow-potted, small-potted, root-bound items from drying out
while other trees are still moist. This can be a problem if you aren't
checking on stuff all the time ( like I don't!) and some items might get to
dry and damage. I have a couple trees that I had this problem with in the
past so now each year I just mulch them into boxes.
BTW, for "touchy" things here in the NE ( for me anyway) like Tridents,
Satsuki, Needle Juniper, Bald Cypress I put them in styrofoam boxes with
some holes in bottom, a layer of mulch in bottom, tree w/ pot inside, then
mulch up over pot. Works great, no problems. Just watch to not OVERWATER
these.
Regards,
Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Mark:
If you are going to dig a hole, you might want to put a few inches of
pebbles in the bottom for drainage. The mulch could stay too wet. I do
suggest that you put in long bamboo skewers into the root ball halfway
between the trunk and the edge of the pot. When you mulch the bamboo
skewer should stick out above the mulch. Pull the skewer out on a
weekly basis. If the dirty end is wet, then you know not to water...
The skewer may freeze into the rootball in the pot. They definitely do
not need watering. Figure that you might have to water several times
during the winter and maybe not at all. That's why you check!!! 8-)

Carl L. Rosner

Mark Hill wrote:

Thanks all for your advice and encouragement.

I'll dig and mulch my trees this weekend, in a spot that won't get much
sunshine or wind.

Another question ..... How about drainage ??
My soil is rather clay like.
Puddles form in driving rain which slowly drains away.
Should I dig a deeper hole and put a layer of mulch below the pots, put the
pots/trees in the hole then mulch over the pot up to the first branch?

I'm assuming if they're covered in snow, they'll be frozen and won't require
water ..... right ??








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************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Mark Hill wrote:

Thanks all for your advice and encouragement.

I'll dig and mulch my trees this weekend, in a spot that won't get much
sunshine or wind.

Another question ..... How about drainage ??

Not an issue once things are frozen.


My soil is rather clay like.
Puddles form in driving rain which slowly drains away.
Should I dig a deeper hole and put a layer of mulch below the pots, put the
pots/trees in the hole then mulch over the pot up to the first branch?


I wouldn't go to the trouble.


I'm assuming if they're covered in snow, they'll be frozen and won't require
water ..... right ??


Yep.


Mark
It's going to be difficult looking at those snow mounds, knowing my "babies"
are buried beneath.
Am I allowed to peek ??

Don't give in to the temptation to mess with them once they're locked in for the
winter. If they're buried in snow the snow will crystalize after some time and you
will risk breaking branches if you mess around. After my first winter I couldn't
resist getting my trees out as early as possible, and I broke a pot in addition to
some branches in trying to wrestle them free from the snow. It isn't worth it.

Just relax, get a few tropicals to work on during the winter, and wait.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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Mark:
If you are going to dig a hole, you might want to put a few inches of
pebbles in the bottom for drainage. The mulch could stay too wet. I do
suggest that you put in long bamboo skewers into the root ball halfway
between the trunk and the edge of the pot. When you mulch the bamboo
skewer should stick out above the mulch. Pull the skewer out on a
weekly basis. If the dirty end is wet, then you know not to water...
The skewer may freeze into the rootball in the pot. They definitely do
not need watering. Figure that you might have to water several times
during the winter and maybe not at all. That's why you check!!! 8-)

Carl L. Rosner

Mark Hill wrote:

Thanks all for your advice and encouragement.

I'll dig and mulch my trees this weekend, in a spot that won't get much
sunshine or wind.

Another question ..... How about drainage ??
My soil is rather clay like.
Puddles form in driving rain which slowly drains away.
Should I dig a deeper hole and put a layer of mulch below the pots, put the
pots/trees in the hole then mulch over the pot up to the first branch?

I'm assuming if they're covered in snow, they'll be frozen and won't require
water ..... right ??








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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++