[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

I want to create a long, hollow down 2/3 the length of a
deciduous tree's trunk. The trunk is about 3 inches at the base,
tapering to a inch at 13 inches tall. I'd like the hollow to be
widest at the base tapering to a narrow slot near the top --
deeper at the base, but I want it quite deep for the entire
length.

This would represent a tree whose heartwood has rotted away,
leaving a hollow that an animal might want to den up in. :-) .
The tree is a twin trunk, with a "younger" slender trunk growing
up from the base, "facing the proposed hollow. There already is
a hollow right at the base where the two trunks meet. I would
extend it up the side of the larger trunk. The top has been
broken off and a new leader has established itself above the
break. The tree is healthy and has been in a pot for 3-4 years
now. FWIW, it is a sweetgum, Liquidamber styraciflua.

What I need to know is how much "live" wood do I need to leave
for safe fluid transport? I'd like the hollow to be as
thin-walled as possible.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

It depends on two factors: the amount of water the tree gets, and the height of the tree. In the case of a bonsai, there's constant water (I just know you are a faithful waterer and never skip a day) and the tree is really really short. So you have a lot
of lee-way.. Of course, it pays to know the anatomy of the wood so you make the cuts parallel with the xylem, thereby maximizing the efficiency of the wood that's remaining. I assume Liquidamber does not have twisting xylem, like some conifers, so you c
an probably assume a straight up-and-down water flow. You should look above where the hollow will be and make sure no major branch is there. Although there is lateral movement in xylem, it is much slower than vertical movement, and a big branch above the
hollow would be stressed. If nothing important is above the hollow, I think you could remove as much as half the diameter.

But the best way to find out is to do it, and report back to *us*.

-Nina.



What I need to know is how much "live" wood do I need to leave
for safe fluid transport? I'd like the hollow to be as
thin-walled as possible.

Jim Lewis - -

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[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

Jim Lewis wrote:

I want to create a long, hollow down 2/3 the length of a
deciduous tree's trunk. The trunk is about 3 inches at the base,
tapering to a inch at 13 inches tall. I'd like the hollow to be
widest at the base tapering to a narrow slot near the top --
deeper at the base, but I want it quite deep for the entire
length.

This would represent a tree whose heartwood has rotted away,
leaving a hollow that an animal might want to den up in. :-) .
snip

What I need to know is how much "live" wood do I need to leave
for safe fluid transport? I'd like the hollow to be as
thin-walled as possible.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

Jim:
I've got a quaking aspen that I'm doing the same thing with. It's a tree that I
collected a couple of years ago and have in a wooden box. I did a trunk chop, boxed
it up and let it go. On one side was a major root that I cut back pretty hard, and
that side of the tree died. Not a crisis, since the root was not supporting any
branches. The live growth is on the other side. This fall I was poking at it and
saw that some of the wood under the bark was dead, so I started removing the bark
until I got to the edge of live cambium, and found that a good one half of the tree
had died, while the other half is doing fine. So, I drilled a bunch of half-inch
holes the length of the dead area and just let it sit. I thought I'd let it sit
over the winter and see how it reacts. In the spring when the wood has softened up
some more I'm planning to carve it out. The thickness of the live part will
probably be an inch or so. The tree is about 3" at the base.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

Hi all,

Of course, it pays to know the anatomy of the wood so you make the cuts
parallel with the xylem, thereby maximizing the efficiency of the wood
that's remaining. I assume Liquidamber does not have twisting xylem, like
some conifers, so you can probably assume a straight up-and-down water flow.

I find this quite interesting specially because I have killed some junipers
after doing some major carving. Could some one post a list of twisting vs.
straight xylem species? Guess this would be useful for the beginners like me.

Best wishes

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[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
snip
...What I need to know is how much "live" wood do I need to leave
for safe fluid transport? I'd like the hollow to be as
thin-walled as possible.
Jim Lewis
----------------------------

I dunno about Liquidambar, but I had a Chinese elm (sold recently) that I
completely hollowed out after finding the entire trunk body to be rotten.
The trunk was about 3" or 4" in diameter and no portion of the trunk wall
was more than 1/4" thick. The tree was quite healthy and I had it like this
for 3 or 4 years with no sign of weakening. But U. parviflora are tough as
nails...

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/
zone 8, Texas

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[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

It depends on two factors: the amount of water the tree gets,
and the height of the tree. In the case of a bonsai, there's
constant water (I just know you are a faithful waterer and never
skip a day) and the tree is really really short.

Well, not THIS time. The tree stands at about 20 inches. Of
course, that's short as far as sweetgum go. ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - VEGETARIAN:
An Indian word meaning "lousy hunter." (Borrowed from a sig by
fellow listowner, Scott Peterson)

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[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

What I need to know is how much "live" wood do I need to
leave
for safe fluid transport? I'd like the hollow to be as
thin-walled as possible.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to
the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

Jim:
I've got a quaking aspen that I'm doing the same thing with.
It's a tree that I
collected a couple of years ago and have in a wooden box. I did
a trunk chop, boxed
it up and let it go. On one side was a major root that I cut
back pretty hard, and
that side of the tree died. Not a crisis, since the root was
not supporting any
branches. The live growth is on the other side. This fall I
was poking at it and
saw that some of the wood under the bark was dead, so I started
removing the bark
until I got to the edge of live cambium, and found that a good
one half of the tree
had died, while the other half is doing fine.

There's more that is "living" than the cambium, though. A good
deal of the "wood" also transports fluids, so you can't cut from
the inside, out to the cambium.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

But the best way to find out is to do it, and report back to
*us*.


Oh, I will, I will.

I have posted 4 shots of this tree in the "Potensai" forum in the
gallery if anyone cares to take a look.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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[IBC] A little tree biology/physiology question
 

I want to create a long, hollow down 2/3 the length of a
deciduous tree's trunk. BRBR
FWIW, it is a sweetgum, Liquidambar styraciflua.

Please note correct spelling
You are in a relatively warm climate, more conducive to infections in plants. I
would suggest first of all that you consult a local arborist on the
advisability of doing this to that species. Or else find a local bonsai grower
who has done something similar.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)