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Old 16-12-2003, 10:33 PM
Marty Haber
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

What should I avoid?
For one thing, avoid getting the flu. After that you're home free. If I
were to add anything else, I'd say:"Avoid losing your enthusiasm".
Working with bonsai is time consuming, back-breaking and knuckle-skinning
work. So many folks quit when they're nearly over the hump; but if you
stick with it, you'll be rewarded handsomely. I always say, the joy in
creating bonsai is in the process - not the result. So keep whistlin' while
you work with your trees and you'll be surprised how much fun you'll have.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 3:11 PM
Subject: [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !


There is such an amazing wealth of knowledge and great experience
here! I've thought of a question for you guys and I know it can help
save me a lot of time and aggravation. I've only been doing this for
about a year, and I love to go out and collect trees as well as work
with whatever nursery stock i can find cheaply. Right now my outdoor
nursery stock includes: Junipers, Boxwoods, Japanese Holly's, Yaupon
Holly, Yews, flowering Quince, Hinoki Cypress and Japanese Maple. My
collected outdoor stuff includes Honeysuckle, privet, elm, hackberry,
grapevines and Althea. Tropical stuff is lots of Ficuses, mostly
Bengiminas with some nerifolias too.
My question is: What should i avoid ? What's the best things and
worst for a relative novice like me. I live in Zone 7 middle
Tennessee.
PS If you're ever in Nashville, look me up !

Chip Smith
Nashville's second best Jazz Whistler


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Old 16-12-2003, 10:42 PM
Nina Shishkoff
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

My question is: What should i avoid ? What's the best things and
worst for a relative novice like me. I live in Zone 7 middle
Tennessee.


You can learn a lot from anything, even a tree you misprune (my yard is populated by such mistakes!). The only thing I would advise you to avoid is spending a lot of money.

Nina Shishkoff, poorest whistler in Maryland


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Old 16-12-2003, 10:42 PM
Jim Lewis
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

My question is: What should i avoid ? What's the best things
and
worst for a relative novice like me.


Ummm. Getting so many trees you can't do any one of them
justice?

Unless you are 85 years old, there's time. You do not need to
own a specimen of every known tree, which is what it sound like
you are trying to do.

You will become (in MY opinion) a much better bonsaiest if you
concentrate on a few trees -- especially to begin. LEARN a
species. Learn how IT reacts to pruning, root pruning, wiring.
LEARN what ITS fertilizer and watering needs are.

You cannot possibly store that information about each of the huge
number of species you listed. There's just no time. And books
will NOT give you information about how that species behaves in
YOUR area. As a result you will know too little about any one of
them to develop it into a nice beginner's tree _and_ know when it
is looking ill, when it wants fertilizer, when it has scale, when
.. . . etc.

Pick three species out of that list -- maybe the juniper, the
privet, and the maple to cover all the temperate-zone bases
(conifer, evergreen (mostly), and deciduous) -- and learn all you
can learn about each of them before moving on to others. Take
the others to your local club and raffle them off.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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Old 17-12-2003, 11:42 AM
Henrik Gistvall
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

Jim Lewis wrote:

My question is: What should i avoid ? What's the best things

and
worst for a relative novice like me.


Ummm. Getting so many trees you can't do any one of them
justice?

Unless you are 85 years old, there's time. You do not need to
own a specimen of every known tree, which is what it sound like
you are trying to do.

You will become (in MY opinion) a much better bonsaiest if you
concentrate on a few trees -- especially to begin. LEARN a
species. Learn how IT reacts to pruning, root pruning, wiring.
LEARN what ITS fertilizer and watering needs are.

I totally agree but... I have not managed to do this. And by excluding
species you really never learn what type of trees you like (or wich
trees like you). Focus on some species that you really love, and try to
learn how to grow them. The others you can keep and play around with,
some you will find suits you, others you can discard.

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden

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Old 17-12-2003, 04:03 PM
Nina Shishkoff
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

Henrik said:
I totally agree but... I have not managed to do this. And by excluding
species you really never learn what type of trees you like (or wich
trees like you).


So true. I am fortunate in working with ornamentals, because when my colleagues have finished experiments, they give me leftover plants. I get a lot of things that simply will not work as bonsai, but I also learn a lot about plants I never would have cons
idered. For instance, I was given some Enkianthus, and after working with them, I think the genus is very promising for bonsai. The trunk is gorgeous, the leaves are small and turn red in fall, the flowers are lovely, the branching is fine and graceful,
the tree buds back readily..... I recommend it to all of you.

Nina.

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Old 17-12-2003, 04:12 PM
Allen
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

Thanks, Jim !
I understand your point! I guess i got so passionate about this new
hobby, that i want everything i can lay my hands on ... Maybe one
reason i'm so spread out is that i want to figure out what i DON'T
want to work with !
Right now, i'm having a lot of fun with Boxwoods, Grapevines, and
althea's. If the big vines i put in the ground do well, i'll have
some good cuttings next spring, my yard is lousy with altheas and
privets, and boxwoods are easy to come by. I am avoiding spending a
lot of money. The process is just so soothing to an old country boy
stuck in the city. I will pare things down and take some pre-sai to
my next club meeting.

(Jim Lewis) wrote in message news:000b01c3c419$83056060$57102cc7@pavilion...
My question is: What should i avoid ? What's the best things

and
worst for a relative novice like me.


Ummm. Getting so many trees you can't do any one of them
justice?

Unless you are 85 years old, there's time. You do not need to
own a specimen of every known tree, which is what it sound like
you are trying to do.

You will become (in MY opinion) a much better bonsaiest if you
concentrate on a few trees -- especially to begin. LEARN a
species. Learn how IT reacts to pruning, root pruning, wiring.
LEARN what ITS fertilizer and watering needs are.

You cannot possibly store that information about each of the huge
number of species you listed. There's just no time. And books
will NOT give you information about how that species behaves in
YOUR area. As a result you will know too little about any one of
them to develop it into a nice beginner's tree _and_ know when it
is looking ill, when it wants fertilizer, when it has scale, when
. . . etc.

Pick three species out of that list -- maybe the juniper, the
privet, and the maple to cover all the temperate-zone bases
(conifer, evergreen (mostly), and deciduous) -- and learn all you
can learn about each of them before moving on to others. Take
the others to your local club and raffle them off.

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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Old 18-12-2003, 04:02 PM
Allen
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

What I was hoping for here were some "stay away" advice ... like
"don't try norfolk island pine, or eastern red cedar" ...
Please give me a common name for Enkianthus.

(Nina Shishkoff) wrote in message news:13824187.1071671457617.JavaMail.webber@uport al0...
Henrik said:
I totally agree but... I have not managed to do this. And by excluding
species you really never learn what type of trees you like (or wich
trees like you).


So true. I am fortunate in working with ornamentals, because when

my colleagues have finished experiments, they give me leftover plants.
I get a lot of things that simply will not work as bonsai, but I also
learn a lot about plants I never would have considered. For instance,
I was given some Enkianthus, and after working with them, I think the
genus is very promising for bonsai. The trunk is gorgeous, the leaves
are small and turn red in fall, the flowers are lovely, the branching
is fine and graceful, the tree buds back readily..... I recommend it
to all of you.

Nina.

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************************************************** ******************************
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Old 18-12-2003, 05:08 PM
Jim Lewis
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

What I was hoping for here were some "stay away" advice ...
like
"don't try norfolk island pine, or eastern red cedar" ...
Please give me a common name for Enkianthus.



OK.

Norfolk Island pine make terrible bonsai. (Eastern red cedar is
OK. )

MOST of the magnolias are no-nos. Most American oaks with Deeply
LOBED leaves don't work.

MANY trees with compound leaves don't work.

Avoid all trees with leaves (or needles) over 4 inches long.

All that said, there will be someone who has made a successful
bonsai out of each of those trees or groups.

And this will be helpful: Enkianthus are known as . . .
Enkianthus. There's the "redvein E." and the "bent E." and the
"white E." although most don't seem to have any common name.
Which only goes to show (AGAIN) that you can NOT (and should not)
rely on common names.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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Old 18-12-2003, 05:32 PM
Kitsune Miko
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !


And this will be helpful: Enkianthus are known as .
. .
Enkianthus. There's the "redvein E." and the "bent
E." and the
"white E." although most don't seem to have any
common name.
Which only goes to show (AGAIN) that you can NOT
(and should not)
rely on common names.

There are a variety of common names like fairy bells
and variations on the same. Look for Enkianthus if
that's what you want. It does make a nice bonsai.

As to species: one can make almost any thing into a
bonsai. There are plants grown just to display
flowers. Some of these are dwarf magnolia. Many
Ginko are styled to display fall color and are vase
shaped rather than showing a tree structure.

Kitsune Miko

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Old 18-12-2003, 06:19 PM
Nina Shishkoff
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

-----Original Message-----

What I was hoping for here were some "stay away" advice ... like

"don't try norfolk island pine, or eastern red cedar" ...
Please give me a common name for Enkianthus.


Stay away from norfolk island pine. But Eastern red cedar is a fun tree to play with, take it from me. I have more of them than anything else.

Stay away from serissas. Trust me. You can buy buy slow-growing trees now to work on later, but to work on now you'll have more fun with fast growing plants like crabapple. Similarly, trees that don't bud back well, like many pines and Chamaecyparis, can
be bought now, but are better left to gain trunk girth while you learn the basics on more forgiving trees. Like barberry, which will recover from almost anything you do to it, and which is a beautiful bonsai.

According to Michael Dirr (book you should check out of the library, or buy: Manual of woody landscape plants, by M.A. Dirr), the common name for Enkianthus is "enkianthus".

Nina Shishkoff


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Old 18-12-2003, 06:19 PM
Nina Shishkoff
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

-----Original Message-----

What I was hoping for here were some "stay away" advice ... like

"don't try norfolk island pine, or eastern red cedar" ...
Please give me a common name for Enkianthus.


Stay away from norfolk island pine. But Eastern red cedar is a fun tree to play with, take it from me. I have more of them than anything else.

Stay away from serissas. Trust me. You can buy buy slow-growing trees now to work on later, but to work on now you'll have more fun with fast growing plants like crabapple. Similarly, trees that don't bud back well, like many pines and Chamaecyparis, can
be bought now, but are better left to gain trunk girth while you learn the basics on more forgiving trees. Like barberry, which will recover from almost anything you do to it, and which is a beautiful bonsai.

According to Michael Dirr (book you should check out of the library, or buy: Manual of woody landscape plants, by M.A. Dirr), the common name for Enkianthus is "enkianthus".

Nina Shishkoff


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************************************************** ******************************
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Old 18-12-2003, 07:03 PM
Don Hill
 
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Default [IBC] Trees to avoid collecting or trying to work with !

Interesting how each of us has a 'POISON' plant that we avoid at all costs.
IMHO that is what makes this such an interesting hobby/passion/pasttime.

Doc

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